Glacial Totem WTF???

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Glacial Totem WTF???

This topic contains 27 replies, has 19 voices, and was last updated by  ninninnin 7 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 28 posts - 1 through 28 (of 28 total)
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  • #177631

    FrankA
    Member

    I was just watching a Let’s Play video where a Tigran force was attacking a Frostling City, the city had a Glacial Totem built and it seems just a tad over powered compared to other city defense buildings. The GT attempts to affect every (yes I said every) unit to inflict chill at the beginning of every turn. If successful chill causes -1 DEF and 20% frost weakness (I don’t know if it stacks), by the 3rd turn of battle Ice Scapers were freezing everything they hit. I think that’s a little to much being no other city defense is that strong.

    Frank

    #177634

    Ferrin
    Member

    The goblin one Weakens enemies, it’s hardly overpowered.

    #177635

    FrankA
    Member

    The goblin one Weakens enemies, it’s hardly overpowered.

    But not every enemy unit every turn, that city defense has a very limited area of affect.

    Frank

    #177636

    llfoso
    Member

    What’s the duration on chilled?

    #177637

    Ferrin
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ferrin wrote:</div>
    The goblin one Weakens enemies, it’s hardly overpowered.

    But not every enemy unit every turn, that city defense has a very limited area of affect.

    Frank

    Really, every unit? I missed that part. That is kind of insane. But it’s a % chance to, not 100% like the weaken, right?

    #177638

    Low_K
    Member

    I agree with Frank. And it affects every unit. I have reservations for other Frostling units too (Mammoth Rider is very powerful for a Tier II, Iceballs which freeze very regularly for 2 turns) and Necro skills (Like the Bonecollector Health and damage boost walking over corpses), among other things.

    Yet, I think the Beta testers did test the balance so maybe the first signs are skewed, or maybe just attributed to luck, but I am a bit worried about the OPness of the new races/classes. We will see the final verdict when the game gets released next week though so better not jump to conclusions just yet.

    Kind regards,

    Low

    #177641

    Arlow
    Member

    i saw that also, but re-watching i think it’s resisted a lot. if it only hit one and was resisted, it would be useless
    and when it hit, i think it added the chilled status making it easier to be frozen, no dmg – am i remembering right? i’m not worried.

    #177642

    MMOaddicted
    Member

    I have watched that LP as well, personally I agree with Low, Wait to see it in the game.The Freeze on the Scrappers worries me though, perhaps bump it up to silver medal, or something dunno though hard to speak without playing it :D.
    PS
    @ Ferrin
    Sorry if I pry or sound weird but I have this little itch in my mind telling me that I have seen your profile picture *somewhere* alas I cannot remember where. Would it be a bother to ask you to enlighten me? Yes I am OCD like that when I see something I think I know I can’t stand until I figure it out where I have seen it.

    #177643

    llfoso
    Member

    I too am worried, but only about the new races. I don’t think the specializations look op at all, and necromancer looks ok.

    The biggest issue for me is the new stacking debuffs, chilled and despair. Unless there’s a cap on how many times they can stack, and it doesn’t look like there is, it’s hard to imagine it not getting out of control. Especially since frostlings have so many units that do it and almost all their units do frost damage. It’s like if blight doctors could weaken every round.

    #177645

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I expected some stuff to be OP, but that video was a ROFL-copter.

    #177647

    Arlow
    Member

    it was also tigrens and frostings if i remember they are each others weakness – and the despair stacking makes me think the bolster battle spell from the new specialization will be key at times
    gonna watch again, until release these let’s plays are like porn for me

    #177649

    Gyor
    Member

    There is a cap, I believe they only stack three times, for a max 60% Frost Weakness and -3 defence.

    On the bright side it actually makes the Frostling Economic buff to Artic Totems and walls worth it were before it wasn’t.

    also if you don’t have Frost Dealing units defending the city, that Totem is nearly useless (-1 defence, no damage) compared to other racial defences, so like Frostlings in general, very specialized.

    #177650

    llfoso
    Member

    There is a cap, I believe they only stack three times, for a max 60% Frost Weakness and -3 defence.

    Ah, good. That’s a relief then.

    #177652

    Gyor
    Member

    Actually if I’m Frostling the race I’d be most afraid of are Dwarves, most of they’re units are armoured, so they can get both enchanted armour and meteorite armour for crazy levels of defence, good resistance, and 40% Frost which is bad for almost all Frostling Units and 40% Fire resistance which is bad for White Witches, and they have units that can deal fire damage.

    #177739

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    The guy in the video was playing Tigrans, who have both -1 resistance and frost weakness, so the proc chance on inflict chilling is really high, since it’s a frost based debuff. Tigrans aren’t very good at fighting frostlings, just about any other race does better against them, even Draconians. Tigrans make up for it with cheetahs though, which are incredibly cheap, and can use Pounce to just jump over the all to get to the defenders. If you don’t use that while sieging a frostling city, then things will go badly!

    Also, there is no cap on how much inflict chilling will stack, but each inflict only lasts two turns (I think). So on its own, the glacial totem can only put two stacks on chilling on something. If you think it’s bad now, you should have seen the original version. It did 4 frost damage to every attacking unit, each turn, it was devastating 😀

    #177741

    kwibus
    Member

    I was going to scream OP!, but then I read it didn’t deal dmg and I was like “hmm then it’s ok”

    Still I’d like to see the frozen time reduced to 1 turn on the scapers. It’s imo a bit too powerful for a starter unit.

    I really like the synergies in the new races and I wish the original races had something similar.

    #177747

    terrahero
    Member

    The guy in the video was playing Tigrans, who have both -1 resistance and frost weakness, so the proc chance on inflict chilling is really high, since it’s a frost based debuff. Tigrans aren’t very good at fighting frostlings, just about any other race does better against them, even Draconians. Tigrans make up for it with cheetahs though, which are incredibly cheap, and can use Pounce to just jump over the all to get to the defenders. If you don’t use that while sieging a frostling city, then things will go badly!

    Also, there is no cap on how much inflict chilling will stack, but each inflict only lasts two turns (I think). So on its own, the glacial totem can only put two stacks on chilling on something. If you think it’s bad now, you should have seen the original version. It did 4 frost damage to every attacking unit, each turn, it was devastating :D

    It also doesnt seem to have an immensely great success rate. Even against that players predominantly Tigran army with their Frost weakness and -1 resist, it mostly seemed to get resisted.

    About those Ice Scaper’s however… :p I think 2 turns is to long for such a frequent proc. And it really does proc a lot. Losing control of a unit for two of your turns is very punishing.
    Is the proc chance effected by range?

    #177759

    FrankA
    Member

    Thanks for explaining Tombles, I did read that it only had a two turn duration and was going to mention that tonight when I got back online. I still however do believe it is a little more powerful than the other races city defense buildings but not as much as I first thought.

    Frank

    #177771

    madmac
    Member

    About those Ice Scaper’s however… :p I think 2 turns is to long for such a frequent proc. And it really does proc a lot. Losing control of a unit for two of your turns is very punishing.
    Is the proc chance effected by range?

    All I’ll say about Ice Scapers is that when the expansion comes out, I highly encourage you to grab a big pile of Scapers and see how that works out for you.

    (They’re ok, but outside Town Defense I’d rather use any other Frostling unit, honestly.)

    #177772

    It is useful, more than the dwarves and halflings, but probably not as good as the goblins or the draconians and elves.

    I mean, the high elf prisim will almost one shot low tier non defending tigran units.

    Draconians have higher resistance and jump jet pikes, and any archdruid, necromancer, or other frostlings will find it to be rather weak.

    It does have obvious AD synergy (twisting roots) or with any other movement reduction ability.

    #177816

    terrahero
    Member

    About those Ice Scaper’s however… :p I think 2 turns is to long for such a frequent proc. And it really does proc a lot. Losing control of a unit for two of your turns is very punishing.<br>
    Is the proc chance effected by range?

    All I’ll say about Ice Scapers is that when the expansion comes out, I highly encourage you to grab a big pile of Scapers and see how that works out for you.

    (They’re ok, but outside Town Defense I’d rather use any other Frostling unit, honestly.)

    Big pile of one unit is a bad way to gauge it’s effectiveness.

    It’s a budget unit, easily recruitable from anyway, that can completely lock down a unit for two turns from range and does with quite a decent succes rate. Where it isn’t just about damage taken for the receiving unit of this, but also about lost potential and indirectly mitigated damage.

    I think by now we can say that Frostlings are a race who need to work together to benefit from the synergy between it’s units.

    #177826

    AwesomeLion
    Member

    I think mostly everyone in the closed beta got that reaction the first few times having Ice Scaper’s. But as you played more and more, you started realizing that they weren’t all that.

    Still, I do agree having a unit (or even a hero) frozen for two turns by a lowly tier 1 irregular does feel very punishing. Maybe changing it to 1 turn could be worth trying?

    As for Glacial Totem – I feel that it is strong, but not overbearingly so. As Chrys pointed out, there are other defense structures that are pretty strong as well. When I have been sieging cities with Glacial Totem’s, I’ve had to be aware of the totems effects, but it did in no way hinder my onslaught =)

    #177864

    Draxynnic
    Member

    The proc on the crowd control effects on the snowscapers and the harpoon guys is low enough under normal circumstances that it’s not really something you can rely on, and more something that is a nice surprise when it happens (if you’re the frostling player, of course!). Stacking multiple Inflict Chillings onto a frost vulnerable creature will naturally influence this, but generally, if you manage to win because of it, either you were lucky, or you invested enough resources that you probably could have won by more mundane means anyway.

    In general, frostlings probably are the most synergy-oriented race. Every unit has characteristics that means its generally at its most effective when mixed with other units – even the mammoths are generally less suitable for being massed than most cavalry and need the support of other units to be at their best.

    #178111

    Leon Feargus
    Member

    The totem is different from other city-defense structures. As noted it deals no damage but in return it can effect all enemey units on the battlefield. As a result, this structure is way more effective in large battles than in small ones, as opposed to most of the other ones that are more effective when besieged by smaller parties.

    #178117

    Same with the Tigran one, but different.

    #178121

    Low_K
    Member

    Usually new stuff gets all the flashy stuff, while the old stuff gets forgotten and stays with the old stuff (as it is work intensive to give the old stuff the new flashy stuff). So with so much stuff, new stuff can be OP at first, nerfed and stuffed later.

    But again, we cannot jump to conclusions yet as the new stuff is (still) not here. 🙁

    Kind regards,

    Low

    #178123

    Ravenholme
    Member

    Doesn’t seem particularly OP – it didn’t proc that much even against Tigrans, who have -1 res and 40% frost weakness, which suggests that pretty much no other race has much to worry about. (Orcs are the next weakest with the universal -1 res too)

    #178137

    ninninnin
    Member

    There is a cap, I believe they only stack three times, for a max 60% Frost Weakness and -3 defence.

    dude thats TERRIFYING

    Also, there is no cap on how much inflict chilling will stack, but each inflict only lasts two turns (I think).

    thats hardly as bad as people were making it out to be, though it still sounds leagues better than what pre eternal lords get except maybe goblins. that thing does decent damage on par with “dedicated” damage structures which do nothing else, while reducing morale and defenses.
    thats way better than piddly aoe damage. yet nobody is freaking out about filth pits.

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