GOBLIN Balance Discussion

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Balance Suggestions GOBLIN Balance Discussion

This topic contains 141 replies, has 31 voices, and was last updated by  ariga 7 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 31 through 60 (of 142 total)
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  • #114279

    vota dc
    Member

    I would give severely poisoned and noxious vulnerability at bronze and I would add a new skill at gold: armor eating. I have this idea because unlike the others wall crusher, the beetle doesn’t smash the wall but eat the wall so it could rip off the armor instead of just piercing it.

    Armor eating gives +1 attack against armored and reinforced but also a physical based chance (against armored and reinforced) to inflict -2 defense until the end of combat.
    It gives a weakened version of armor piercing but also an not very powerful but long debuff.

    #114314

    ExNihil
    Member

    Thats a nice idea, but I would like to hear suggestions based on existing traits if possible.

    moving the severely poisoned to bronze medal along noxious vul. is a good idea, but what will be a good gold medal buff? Martial Arts or Polearm?

    #114339

    Draxynnic
    Member

    Possibly Inflict Exhausting Fatigue, on the basis that the poison is potent enough to have that effect? Would need to check what channel it lands on, though.

    #114341

    ExNihil
    Member

    That wouldn’t be powerful enough for gold medal.

    #114472

    jakjak
    Member

    I think most low tier goblins should get ressurgence as a level up cause they carry on like rabbits I like your idea with the 10% physical weakness instead of hp drop off still goblin swarm darters can be nice and beetles are quite nice and weakening touch does make up for some of their weaknesses but I still think noxious vulnerability should work on blight immune units as well or add to the untouchables that each hit just automatically lowers it by 2% cus blight doctors get picked off early and once those are gone its just clean up for blight immune units

    #114649

    ExNihil
    Member

    @jakjak

    Lol man -> , <- you really never heard of the comma (or the dot). You are giving me ADHD reading this. Anyhow, resurgence is extremely OP and its special thing for the Theo, no way to put it on Goblins in a justified way really. And I think blight immunity is exactly there for noxious vulnerability – this is the essence of being immune to this shit.

    #114720

    Morty
    Member

    I think goblins ought to get something more than just being cheap and numerous. Making them even cheaper and even faster to churn out is just more of the same, and won’t make up for their dropping like flies in early game. But I guess we’ll see what the upcoming patch does for them.

    #114725

    ExNihil
    Member

    Well, you should read in the first page of this thread the suggestions which address what you said.

    #114761

    jakjak
    Member

    I think it is a more effective way of representing how plentiful goblins are supposed to be. It is not a perfect fit. Perhaps there could be something else like every 5 units built a random t1/t2 goblin spawns at that city for free.
    *I still think races themselves should have a few of their own hero upgrades and 2/3 empire upgrades maybe even a spell or two*
    Yes that is the point which is in my opinion too effective against goblins I suppose we could give them access to another damage type but I dont like that really so the alternative is to make them a little better at doing things to these units if not limit them a bit. Maybe a touch attack that deteriorates machines or armored units is the best way to go about it

    #114780

    Morty
    Member

    Well, you should read in the first page of this thread the suggestions which address what you said.

    I have. I should have made sure to mention it, I guess. Your observations are pretty accurate, although I’m honestly not sure what could be done to give goblin low-tier units more of a bite.

    #114807

    Garresh
    Member

    Be funny if goblin irregulars were lowered to like 20hp and less damage but spawned 2 at a time like zerglings.

    #114818

    ExNihil
    Member

    @morty,

    The overall blight resistance in the game needs to be decreased.

    #114881

    Morty
    Member

    It certainly does, no arguments here. Blight Doctors’ ability to make even blight-immune units susceptible to it is nice and all, but there’s only so much they can do. There are just too many units which are immune or resistant to blight for no good reason. Machines, sure. Undead – can’t really posion those. But trolls?

    Not that some blight vulnerability on machines and undead would be totally out of the question, either – it’s not just poison, it’s also rot and caustic ooze.

    All in all, it would make Swarm Darters and Untouchables quite lethal, but Marauders, Skewers and Warg Riders would probably still need something.

    #114940

    ExNihil
    Member

    Agree. I suggest you join the discussion in the Blight and Spirit thread in the main forum.

    #114948

    Draxynnic
    Member

    It is a little unfortunate at the moment that blight covers so many things – poison, disease, decay, black magic… Spirit has a similar problem, but is a little less in the spotlight. The result is that things that are immune to one of these ends up being immune to all of them. Not sure if it’s practical to change this at this stage of the game, though.

    Machines might actually be the easiest to justify cutting back to 80 or 60% protection. Partically because, as Morty points out, blight can also be acid and the like (many poisons are also acidic, caustic, or have other interesting reactions with metal and/or wood) but possibly more importantly, most machines have an implied crew. Historically, tank designers in the early stages of the Cold War went to a lot of effort to seal tanks against biological, chemical, and radiological hazards – it’s probably a pretty fair bet that steampunk landships are not so protected, let alone siege weapons with the crew in the open like trebuchets. Splattering a machine with globs of diseased ooze, pumping poisonous gas over it, or bombarding it with mosquitoes is probably going to mean that some of that is likely to get in and harm the crew – yes, they can use the machine for cover, but they’re not completely impervious.

    Machines that genuinely are crewless (or have airtight seals) could then be given immunity on top.

    #115097

    ExNihil
    Member

    Well, you guys got suggestions on How to improve the beetle and other Goblin units?

    #115101

    Be funny if goblin irregulars were lowered to like 20hp and less damage but spawned 2 at a time like zerglings.

    I’m crossing my fingers that this zergling mechanic gets used for future Shadow demons, who, in my imagination, would have larvae as their militia unit. Hands don the worst unit in a fight, but they can burrow into an enemy unit and evolve, into any of the other SD units, tech depending.

    yeah I’d make SD very much like the Zerg. Fantasy zerg. No use for cities etc, except as food source.

    So their primary source would be ‘matter’ or whatever which they gain by consuming stuff. They can consume anything, but the most efficient is living things.

    They’d control cities by siphoning off the population.

    Blah blah blah. Similar ideas could be made to work for a Warlock class.

    #115169

    Morty
    Member

    Well, you guys got suggestions on How to improve the beetle and other Goblin units?

    Marauders… I’m thinking maybe Resurgence, which was mentioned, with only a change to return? It’d let players sacrifice them more easily because they won’t be lost forever? The rationale is that goblin fighters scatter and hide when things look bad, but come back if the tide turns, just when the enemy thought they got rid of them. But it might be either too good or impractical. It’s been too long since I played, but I think they need a boost the most. Not sure what the Skewers and Warg Riders need, if anything. The beetle could maybe get a self-heal or life-stealing? Those giant beetles are supposed to be scavengers.

    #115202

    Morty
    Member

    To follow up on that thought and sum up, I think the Marauders and Beetles should get some indirect means of increasing their staying power and making up for their squishyness.

    #115204

    ExNihil
    Member

    he beetle could maybe get a self-heal or life-stealing?

    Fast Healing or Life-Stealing. Interesting proposals – I think steal-life could be a good medal trait. What do you guys think?

    P.S. the Bligh, Spirit, Machines and Theo thread is here:
    http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/blight-spirit-machines-and-theo-some-community-questions/

    #115219

    Morty
    Member

    I was thinking more in terms of battlefield healing than strategic map fast-healing. Either the life-stealing trait or a one-shot self-heal that requires a dead unit to work.

    #115282

    ExNihil
    Member

    A one time shot heal in which it feeds on a body is a cool idea 🙂 But this requires new features. I think life-stealing on a medal can be great.

    #115287

    Ricminator
    Member

    one-shot-heal-with-dead-body isn’t that more vampiric?

    #115300

    Morty
    Member

    A one time shot heal in which it feeds on a body is a cool idea :) But this requires new features. I think life-stealing on a medal can be great.

    True, it’s easier to add existing abilities than create new ones. We’ll see if the devs did anything with the beetle rider in the upcoming patch. I hope they release the list of changes ahead of time like they did with the last one.

    one-shot-heal-with-dead-body isn’t that more vampiric?

    It can be. Or it can be a ravenous beast devouring bodies to nourish itself.

    #115363

    ExNihil
    Member

    Ok, what do you guys say about a Big Beetle looking like this:

    153g* / 20m, upkeep 16g. 65hp, 36mp, 12def, 11res, Melee Strike 14 physical damage / 4 [+1] blight damage.
    Traits: Walking, Tunneling, Wall Crushing, Overwhelm, Cavalry, Charge, Mounted, Cave-Crawling, Night Vision, Wetland Walking, 100% Blight Resistance, Inflict Noxious Vulnerability [moved from bronze medal].

    Trooper: +1 physical dmg, +6hp
    Veteran: +1 blight dmg, +1 def, +6hp, Inflict Severely Poisoned [moved from gold medal]
    Expert: +1 Physical dmg, +1 resistance, +6hp
    Elite: +1 blight dmg, +1 defense, +6hp, Life stealing

    * – The justification for the lower price is that currently the big beetle is priced (160g) at -6% the price of Human/Orc/Elf/Draconian t3 and it should be -10%.

    #115722

    joey1776
    Member

    I would offer two suggestions to improve Goblin balance (on any map regardless of UG):

    First- HORDE: If an army is at least 5/6 Goblin, a player may add a 7th unit to the army which must be a Goblin.

    Second- Every Goblin melee unit has a small % chance on striking to inflict blight weakness of 20% on the target. This lasts two rounds and is stack-able (in line with their horde theme) up to 80%.

    What do you all think of these suggestions? Please let me know 🙂

    #115727

    ExNihil
    Member

    I would offer two suggestions to improve Goblin balance (on any map regardless of UG):

    First- HORDE: If an army is at least 5/6 Goblin, a player may add a 7th unit to the army which must be a Goblin.

    Second- Every Goblin melee unit has a small % chance on striking to inflict blight weakness of 20% on the target. This lasts two rounds and is stack-able (in line with their horde theme) up to 80%.

    What do you all think of these suggestions? Please let me know :)

    Hi, Welcome aboard :).

    I think the first suggestion is very creative and it could be a great way of buffing Goblins, but I suspect it is not feasible relative to the amount of work and beta-testing it will require from the Devs.

    I think the second suggestion is excellent and I would like seeing it implemented. I suggest you take a look and contribute to the Blight, Spirt, Machine and Theocrat thread in main discussion section, maybe by posting this suggestion there. Here is a link:

    http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/blight-spirit-machines-and-theo-some-community-questions/

    #115734

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Am reading this thread! One quick warning the Goblin 10% price bonus and the dwarf 10% penalty are NOT listed in the tome of wonders. Maybe you guys already realized, just thought I’d mention it…

    Also, I was wondering if maybe marauders, pikemen and maybe wolf riders should just be a little cheaper?

    #115739

    Gloweye
    Member

    Increase stack size? yes please. few thing i’d rather have. however, im afraid the dev’s wont do it.

    I like the blight weakness idea, but did you have a % chance in mind? it could get close to be either worthless or overpowered fast.

    #115741

    ExNihil
    Member

    Am reading this thread! One quick warning the Goblin 10% price bonus and the dwarf 10% penalty are NOT listed in the tome of wonders. Maybe you guys already realized, just thought I’d mention it…

    Also, I was wondering if maybe marauders, pikemen and maybe wolf riders should just be a little cheaper?

    Yes… :). I think the unit prices need to be readjusted to -15% and +15% for Goblins and Dwarves respectively. The best way to do it is to increase the total cost of the units and have some internal differences. Thus a Forge Priest or First Born will be 20% more expansive, as they are very attractive units, but Crossbowman would be 8% more expansive, as it isn’t a great unit at all. As for the concrete suggestions, why not?

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