Hasty Plunder

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This topic contains 30 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  Griffith 6 years, 9 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 31 total)
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  • #230979

    llfoso
    Member

    So from time to time as the game evolves there is often that one specialization that I feel like I would be an idiot not to take. Back in December it was wild adept, untill summon lesser elemental was nerfed. Then in May it was grey guard adept, until cardinal culling was moved to the mastery sphere. Now it’s destruction adept.

    Hasty Plunder was buffed from 3 turns (I think?) half loot to one turn full loot…and I think the buff was a little too much. One turn is too devastating and it has made destruction adept insanely good. The logic and careful balance behind having razing a town take two turns has been left behind. If it were two turns and full loot it would still be great.

    #231032

    Dagoth Ur
    Member

    It was 2 turns (same as raze) but you are correct, 1 turn is insanely fast. In simultaneous turns this means that if you take a town in the last few seconds of one turn, a few seconds later it’s gone.

    But also note that even if it was 2 turns you could almost guarantee a raze too by pre-loading Scorched Earth. Granted, it required more investment and that’s just guaranteeing a raze (not a full fledged Plunder), and they bumped up the research cost of Hasty Plunder.

    But I certainly think moving it back to 2 turns is up for discussion.

    #231044

    llfoso
    Member

    Ah, yeah it was two turns. Still, just getting full loot instead of half would have been enough of a bump.

    You still had two turns to attempt a disjunct. Now you only have one even if you’re close enough to take it back right away.

    #231123

    Fenraellis
    Member

    I don’t remember the rewards being changed, just the turn count. Then again, I never ran Destruction very often.

    #231327

    llfoso
    Member

    I can’t find the patch note about it for the life of me.

    I might be wrong- I found the patch note that all plundering has been upped by 50% and that might have thrown me. I just noticed hasty plunder was getting more than it used to.

    But the 1 turn raze is the issue here.

    #231331

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Just posting to say I’m looking into putting it back to 2 turns. I’m not sure when/why it changed to 1 turn, but I do agree it was a mistake!

    #231344

    llfoso
    Member

    Yay! Thanks for letting us know 🙂

    #231362

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Also I don’t know how the plunder amount is calculated but I think it’s a bit too much.
    In the PBEM tournament game, I hasty plundered a town of ExNihil and got an insane 1080 gold and 540 mana.
    He had:
    – builder’s hall
    – shrine
    – laboratory
    – observatory
    – sorcerer’s conflux

    I’m sad that Hasty Plunder is nerf but I agree that it’s very powerful now, maybe too much.
    At the same time, with racial governance, you have to think carefully what you do. (for instance it’s a difficult choice to raze city from your own race) And also you cannot hasty plunder undeads.

    #231363

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    From what I can see, you get 12 times the city’s gold/mana income. So, that city must have had a gold income of 90 per turn and a mana income of 45 per turn.

    #231371

    ExNihil
    Member

    I always take destruction, its OP as shit. So yes, it needs to be nerfed ASAP, problem is first and foremost amount of time it takes to plunder which is very hard to defend against. Also scorched earth is very problematic to defend against and I suggest to increase its research cost a bit.

    #231376

    What about quick looting equalling less gold and not destroying the city, so cull plundering gets you more gold and damages the enemy more, but is riskier.

    #231377

    ExNihil
    Member

    or just takes 2 turns instead of 1 and gives you 8 times the income instead of 12 times? that is still very good, but allows some measure of defense.

    #231444

    Garresh
    Member

    NOOOOOooo…
    My favorite adept spec!

    Nah just kidding it probably is a bit too strong now. Just don’t overnerf it. If plundering takes more than the razetime that’s a huge Nerf. I think ExNihils suggestion is very good. I don’t say that very often, but he hit the mark here. 😉

    #231447

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    OK, what we have now is:

    Plunder – 4 turns – 12x Gold/Mana income given
    Raze – 2 turns – 0 Gold/Mana given
    Instant Plunder – 1 turn – 12x Gold/Mana income given

    The simplest fix is:

    Instant Plunder – 2 turn – 12x Gold/Mana income given

    Are you guys saying you think you want the multiplier to 8 or 10 instead? Or is the turn boost enough? I literally never use the ability, because it’s not that useful in single player.

    #231455

    I literally never use the ability, because it’s not that useful in single player.

    I find it pretty much indispensable when dealing with AI Emperors past a certain point.

    What I was suggesting was:

    1 -instant plunder without raze – one turn, steals money. It’s just guys smashing in random houses and stealing stuff after all. 2* income.

    Still annoying to deal with, but not as much as losing a city.

    2 – Quick raze and plunder – 2 turns, burns the city down, gives 2* income. Like above, but you get to burn stuff down.

    3 – Double plunder – takes 6 (!!!) turns, , but player gets 20*income. This represents the systematic looting of every one, Grannies included, then burning down their homes, and killing their dogs, and their dogs fleas, and their dogs fleas friends…

    High risk, high reward. It’s quite hard in my experience to hold a city for 6 turns if someone really wants it back. And if you can, then you’re best off actually holding it!

    #231471

    llfoso
    Member

    I think the turn boost is enough. 2 turns full loot is ok. That’s my 2 cents though. If you nerf it further I think you should also reduce the research cost then.

    #231528

    ExNihil
    Member

    The 1 turn is the main problem, the income doesn’t really matter as much IMO. Balance wise I’d say 2 turns and x12 income works as well.

    Also – for scorched earth if you could make the visual effect of the spell more visible it would be better, my main problem is that it is very difficult to see when this spell is applied to a city and thus to opt to disjunct it first before entering the city. If you can make the visual effect more dramatic and very distinguishable so it is obvious or at least a bit more obvious (now you really need to know to look for the icon on the top left corner, so a clear visual identifier would be very good!).

    #231557

    llfoso
    Member

    Actually I like that it’s not obvious. It’s kind of a trap spell.

    #231559

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    OK, hasty plunder will be 2 turns in the next update. Fun fact: It was always 1 turn, we never changed it to be faster. I had a look at the original data from the game when it came out, and it hasn’t ever been changed.

    #231565

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    I was complaining about it, since I played Necro, anyone remember? 🙂

    #231566

    ExNihil
    Member

    Well Scorched Earth is really OP: you don’t need to absorb a settlement in order to cast it, all you need to do is take it and cast if you are shadowborn you are having only positives here. This is really a very quick way to raze a town while fucking with your opponent. A visual que is only fair IMO.

    Also, I’d like to suggest creation sphere gets a countering tech and maybe expander as well.

    #231568

    Lightform
    Member

    I think that it is probably still a bit OP on 2 turn 12*. I’d vote for 8* as well.

    #231601

    llfoso
    Member

    OK, hasty plunder will be 2 turns in the next update. Fun fact: It was always 1 turn, we never changed it to be faster. I had a look at the original data from the game when it came out, and it hasn’t ever been changed.

    What? I have a very, very vivid memory of testing it out and that not being the case – I remember thinking it seemed like a worthless ability at the time.
    Memory is such a screwy thing.

    #231611

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    I’ve but a smallish patch in open beta to try and address these issues! You can find details here:

    http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/update-1-701-patch-notes/

    #231612

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    What? I have a very, very vivid memory of testing it out and that not being the case – I remember thinking it seemed like a worthless ability at the time.
    Memory is such a screwy thing.

    I was surprised as well, but the description of the ability, which uses the word “Immediately”, hasn’t been changed since release day.

    #231654

    Dagoth Ur
    Member

    I clearly remember it being 2 turns before too though. But I think the implemented solution is suffice.

    #231655

    Garresh
    Member

    I also remember 2 turns. Destruction adept was my go to since day one and it was definitely buffed at some point. 2 turns is fine though.

    #231657

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    Maybe the original description was wrong then? All I can say is that, after a brief and not at all thorough search, I couldn’t find any evidence it was ever 2 turns in the past. There’s no patch notes about changing it, or old text indicating it was different.

    #231857

    Garresh
    Member

    I remember the description being “off” like a year ago. Consider the following. “Instantly” plunders could mean that it does the plundering part instantly, but the razing still takes normal time. 2 turns to raze. 2 turns to plunder. With the skill plunder goes to 0 and raze stays at 2. That was how I rationalized it and imagined it back a year ago. I remember pretty distinctly because although the description was odd, it made perfect sense if you imagine plundering and razing as separate but distinct actions.

    Not sure why there werent any changelogs though. I think it just got missed somewhere along the way.

    #231866

    Sharpnessism
    Member

    A small multiplier nerf as well would be okay IMO. No need to compensate with any research cost buff.

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