November 8, 2015 at 11:14 #236769
This issue is related to modding, but not specific so, and the knowledge wouldn’t be restricted to it either. Therefore, i thought this forum to be the right one.
I’m building the Dark Elf Dwelling, but I can’t seem to trigger any quests with a difficulty higher than Medium. I was wondering how the quest you get is affected by the quest’s difficulty. First of all, the logs noted nothing about invalid entries, so I doubt that’s the origin.
I was wondering how the quests are picked, on what factors. For example:
1. Do you need more than X cities or Y armies before you get (Very) Hard quests?
2. Is there a limiting factor in the turn timer?
3. Is there a limiting factor in distance to player? Most quests I got were close to my capitol, despite there being around 40 dwellings on my test map.
4. Is there a limited amount of quests? I have 30 quests assigned to the DE Dwelling right now, and I was wondering whether it might just ignore some due to a low limit.
(For answers, please don’t post to much conjecture..possible reasons may be a good idea, but solutions above all and I want to know them for sure.)November 8, 2015 at 14:55 #236779
If you have some spare time, could you look into the way quests are given in general? I mean, what factors determine what kind of quests are given in random-generated maps, and why there are so few quests types in the RMG. There are more quest types in the mod editor so I wonder if it is possible to somehow “squeeze” those types into the random map generator to be always accounted for in a RMG map.
My common sense tells me that if scenarios and campaigns can have various quests using the same quest system, so should RMG maps. The question is why the RMG ignores most of other already accessible kinds of quests commonly seen in scenarios and campaigns. Thanks in advance.November 8, 2015 at 15:04 #236782
Problem between scenario’s and campaigns is that you build them in manually, whereas in RMG you need to tell the system how to build a quest. You’re basically building templates the game can work with.
I think part is doubling with my issue – dwellings and even races have “raze city” quests, which almost never show cause they’re classified as “Very Hard”. Unless I know how to tell the game I can handle those, I can’t test stuff anyway.
Independent Cities/Dwellings give quests based on what’s basically a group of quests – all possibilities are predetermined. For example, Vanilla Giant Dwelling (which I used as base for the DE) has 1 raze city very hard quest, and 2 series of 5 Slay Infidel quests, both ranging from Very Easy to Very Hard, and consisting of Magical Creatures and Dragon’s respectively. Those are bound together by one entry(forgot the name), and the Giant Dwelling City Size Definition links to that entry. So that gives 11 possible quests for the Giants.
Individually, they’re weighted(which works BTW – I adjusted some for DE), but that seems to get bypassed based on quest difficulty, and I can’t figure out easily how that’s working.November 8, 2015 at 19:41 #236791
More info: Just did a test run of 91 turns. I started with 5 extra metropolises, and got around 10 dwellings more during the course of the game.
I completed 27 quests, and ALL of them were Medium difficulty. Did them all in under 2 turns as well, so that’s not a factor.
I did notice that questgivers were generally closer to my existing cities – though they don’t care about layer. I had an oasis of vassals beneath the group of 5 metropolises.
I also noticed that once you got around 6 vassals, dwellings I had peace with didn’t give me quests anymore. Once I bought those vassals, I got new ones from quests.
I’m starting to think Empire Size neither army size matters much for which quests you’re offered. At the end, I had over 6 times my starting army, due to all the Dark Elf Bladedancers and Sharpshooters I got as rewards.
One note is that I’m using a specific testing mod – gold/mana income for example are not a factor, and to increase the sample size I gave myself Courtesan Ambassadors through the map editor and pure good alignment in turn one.November 9, 2015 at 07:56 #236816
My assumption has always been that its based on game turn, but I have nothing to prove that, and your testing seems to show otherwise.
I would say just make most of your quests medium anyway, unless changing the quest system overall. I (and I assume many other people?) really don’t bother with quests except for very early and only if my army is within a turn or so of reaching the target. Just very rarely seems worth it, altho with modding maybe moreso.November 10, 2015 at 13:09 #236904
It might be worth it cause Very Hard (dwelling) quests can have T4 units as reward, as well as Items and stuff. Heck, you can build them to offer spells as reward.
any Dev comments on how quests are assigned? Cause i can’t find anything in the rpk’s on it.November 11, 2015 at 18:37 #236971
bumpity bump. Any dev who can inform me why (very) Hard quests seem so impossible to get?November 11, 2015 at 23:59 #236985
In my experience, quest are at – least for the most part – assigned based on how far your armies are from a quest-giving city, and seem to trigger on a certain turn. Quests also appear to follow a particular pattern as for their sequence (Not sure if the same applies to their difficulty but their particular sequence and difficulty are probably somehow linked.) I do not think that your army strength or empire size matters either. Anyway, I am afraid that unless we get a dev’s explanation on the subject, we can only speculate…November 12, 2015 at 13:43 #237019
Bear in mind that I didn’t make the system and the explanation below is from looking through the code. There might be some things that are not 100% accurate, but it should atleast give you an idea of how it works.
1.) There are 2 cooldowns in the system. A player cooldown, and a city cooldown. When the player cooldown is over it will try to find a city which the player has met that is valid to spawn quest (I.e. no cooldown. There are other factors, but these are all minor things). When there are multiple valid cities it will try to use the one closest to the player’s forces. The cooldown settings can be found in Title.rpk -> ‘AoW Global Settings’ -> ‘Quest Global Settings’
2.) When a valid city (quest giver) has been found the system checks what the maximum quest difficulty is the player should get. If you check the ‘Quest Global Settings’ in Title.rpk again you will see ‘Quest Difficulty Settings’. In here the required military strength per quest difficulty is defined. For example, if the player has a military strength of 700 the maximum quest difficulty the player can do will be Medium (600 strength required).
3.) Now that the city knows the maximum quest difficulty it should hand out it calculates the gold value the player would have to pay in order to absorb the city. If the player is neutral with the city this is the ‘peace cost’ + ‘alliance cost’ + ‘absorb cost’. If the player is already at peace it is ‘alliance cost’ + ‘absorb cost’. You get the picture… This value is then checked against the maximum quest difficulty the player can do. Say the player can only do a Medium quest which in ‘Quest Difficulty Settings’ is defined as having a value of 300. If the calculated gold value of the city is lower than the 300 it will try to spawn a quest from the ‘Absorb Quest Set’, if the value is higher it will try to spawn a quest from the ‘Reward Quest Set’. (I take it you know where these are linked but for everyone else: See AoW_Structures.rpk -> ‘City Settings – Human’ -> ‘City – Human – Size Outpost’ -> ‘Quest Category Link’ for an example.
So in order for it to spawn (very) hard quests you need: 1) Player needs enough military strength, 2) The absorb cost for the city need to be close to the value of the (very) hard difficulty as defined in ‘Quest Difficulty Settings’.
Also note that if the quests in the Quest Sets all have similar difficulty values it will reduce the chance for the quest giver to spawn quests a lot. Afaik the dragon dwelling has Medium, Hard and Very Hard in the ‘Absorb Quest Set’. Which is kind of the minimum amount of difficulties you would want in a quest set for it to reliably spawn quests.November 12, 2015 at 14:37 #237027
Both Absorb and Reward Quest sets currently refer to the same quest set, so I think that one is done. So if I want to have a Very Hard quest, the city would need to be expensive to absorb? (crap relations or far away…)
Thanks for the info. I’ll continue testing I think, now I know in which direction to test. You’ll hear from me.
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