How many Hit Points do you try…..

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions How many Hit Points do you try…..

This topic contains 27 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by  Epaminondas 7 years ago.

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  • #189186

    CHIEF DRUID
    Member

    to get your Leader or Heroes to?

    Trying to figure out a good balance of power and stay alive. What would you say is the average size of a Leaders or Heroes Hit Points.

    #189193

    Gloweye
    Member

    Depends on the funtion of the hero. If I don’t intend to get him in melee, I generally put 1 or at most 3 points into hitpoints.

    #189209

    CSav10
    Member

    If playing melee normally get around the 80-100 mark, ranged on the other hand generally 1 or 2 level ups same as Gloweye. Thats normally only to account for the fact there dead cheap late game compared to the others and when you run into cannons and ships on the sea that all target your hero and blow you up, a little extra hp helps.

    #189222

    Arlow
    Member

    i used to not invest in them on ranged, but there’s more teleporting to my back line going on now >.>
    bulking up…

    #189235

    CHIEF DRUID
    Member

    i used to not invest in them on ranged, but there’s more teleporting to my back line going on now >.><br>
    bulking up…

    Yeah, I noticed that too that is what got me wonderin about hit points for leaders and heroes. I got this one awesome pistol leader/hero and the rest are pretty much melee or small ranged damage units.

    I have a problem getting heroes anyways after the start of the game I hardly have 300 gold saved to buy one. 😉 Mass producing tier III and IV units is expensive. 🙂

    #189245

    Kozzie
    Member

    60 hp max usually – since there are better things to invest points into than hitpoints

    example: projectile resistacne gives 2 defence against ranged attacks – it cost 2 points but raises the effective hp of a hero vs ranged dmg by way more hitpoints thnan you could buy instead

    #189250

    Mythabril
    Member

    Rarely more than 70, usually between 60 and 70. My heroes are stack leaders, dispensing spells and special abilities. I also tend to focus more on the offence. If the enemy is dead, it can’t hurt you.

    #189300

    zeelilus
    Member

    I usually invest 3 points into HP, defense, and melee attack. My latest tigran rogue I invested 5 or so into resistance, and a few extra into melee. It all depends what you’re using the hero for. I tend to like sprinting rogues behind the enemy line and relying on first strike and/or total awareness to keep them alive, that requires quite a few stats. When I have a sorc though, I usually turn them into a pile of casting points and in a siege I dont even move them from where they spawn, thus making stats kinda useless.

    #189313

    Wintersend
    Member

    I generally go for 60-65. If I have a melee hero I just beef up defense and resist with gear and some points. Focus mostly on abilities and damage until it gets expensive. Artifacts are where I get most of my stats from.

    #189326

    Brandon_354
    Member

    I usually stop investing in hp after it costs more than 4 or 5 points, but since i do it based on that and not total hp it can vary based on items and class. For example a warlord with his empire upgrade and a jack’s gift will have significantly more than any other class, especially without jack’s gift.

    #189345

    Nerdfish
    Member

    70 HP
    Because AI have absurd tendency to focus on heroes above all else.

    #189349

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Generally 65 for leader/caster heroes, and 75 for melee heroes.

    #189414

    CHIEF DRUID
    Member

    Lol no kidding about Ai focusing on Leaders and Heroes. My leader just died and he had 75pts of health. Made me think of always casting resurgence on him now. 🙂 I had the game on auto play out the battle and just sat back and watched the ai get him massacred. He’s got a pistol with 30 gd damage points and 15 melee and the frickin ai takes him into melee with two of those terror things the sorcerer gets for Tier IV. The ai needs to be tweaked where it concerns Leaders and Heroes in automatic battles 🙂

    #189449

    Fenraellis
    Member

    70+ for Ranged/Spellcasters. As much as possible for Bruisers. 90+ is not uncommon eventually. After hitting a certain level of Def/Res(20~22/16 or so to deal with most ranged attacks), gaining more raw HP is usually the best defense. It’s just not generally feasible to try and account for enemy units with 25+ damage values(either innate or through enchantments) hitting you. Let alone the fact that your defensive stats can get reduced, but your max HP(Invoke Death aside) will always be there.

    Of course, it certainly is possible to get 30+ Defense/25+ Resistance in Defender Guard Mode, or rarely through extremely high quality mythical item combinations, but that’s not a reliable occurrence.

    I almost never add Melee strength, since it’s just not efficient to try and match dedicated melee T3 and T4 units in raw damage output. Ranged strength gets a few points most of the time for triple-shot ranged heroes(Longbows, especially), and occasionally more if I find the right items(or get/make Seeker headgear, or have Air magic). So, aside from class hero upgrades, CP upgrades, and the aforementioned levels of Def/Res, a variable amount of Ranged strength, pretty much all remaining points tend to go into HP.

    #189461

    Epaminondas
    Member

    70+ for Ranged/Spellcasters. As much as possible for Bruisers. 90+ is not uncommon eventually. After hitting a certain level of Def/Res(20~22/16 or so to deal with most ranged attacks), gaining more raw HP is usually the best defense. It’s just not generally feasible to try and account for enemy units with 25+ damage values(either innate or through enchantments) hitting you. Let alone the fact that your defensive stats can get reduced, but your max HP(Invoke Death aside) will always be there.

    Jesus; how do you find the upgrade points? Do you set max levels higher than the default 20? Or do you skimp on the casting upgrades and spells?

    #189493

    Klydon
    Member

    60 is the sweet spot for me. If I get some items that pump HPs, they go to the more melee type heroes (usually rogues, but warlords can be there too).

    I also look to get the defensive values to 10 each as well. Anything after that is either a 1 point investment and/or generated by items.

    #189601

    Fenraellis
    Member

    Jesus; how do you find the upgrade points? Do you set max levels higher than the default 20? Or do you skimp on the casting upgrades and spells?

    70HP is only 10 points for 20 HP over the base 50. Archdruids and Necromancers start at 55, and I suppose Orcs also get an extra 5 HP on top of that as well. An Orc Druid/Necro start at 60 HP only needs to spend 3 points to get to 70 HP.

    Besides, for those 90+HP and 22/16 Def values, I did directly refer to the situation of when one happens to get high quality equipment.

    Realistically, 70~80 HP and around 18/14 Def/Res is a more normal stat set for a well equipped level 10~15 hero.

    Also, yes, I rarely choose more than a few specific spells on any given hero. Specialization, allowing them to have better survival, rather than diversification. My Leader can generally compensate with their spells(on-site or off-site).

    #189749

    Epaminondas
    Member

    70HP is only 10 points for 20 HP over the base 50. Archdruids and Necromancers start at 55, and I suppose Orcs also get an extra 5 HP on top of that as well. An Orc Druid/Necro start at 60 HP only needs to spend 3 points to get to 70 HP.

    Yeah, 70 is not that special; I was more surprised at the 90-plus you quoted on melee specialists. I guess primarily item-driven for those?

    Also, yes, I rarely choose more than a few specific spells on any given hero. Specialization, allowing them to have better survival, rather than diversification. My Leader can generally compensate with their spells(on-site or off-site).

    Can you give the spells you never leave without on each given hero? If that’s too long and involved, at least on Theocrat and Warlord? 😉

    #189750

    Usana
    Member

    70-80 hp is a decent target I aim for. However, with Regrowth now a Druid ability I tend to grab even more HP. My level 18 Rowlar in the campaign has 100hp and 20/15 for defense and resistance(14/11 without equipment). However, rather than a straight up fighter, he is my scout. In the third map he has 3x night vision, a flying mount, a vision upgrade, another +2 vision from Bowan’s signet ring, the default druid vision bonus, and of course true sight. Can we just say that he is Rowlar the All-Seeing?

    I just wish I had some HP boosting equip. HP now is 10 points a pop. And no he doesn’t really have much spell casting ability. He shares a stack with Einar who is my dedicated caster with 80 CP. Most casting turns are either Einar or Arvik casting. Doesn’t help that Revitalize doesn’t work on undead.

    #189823

    NuMetal
    Member

    Warlord

    For me it’s Last Stand.
    That spell is actually the reason why I get Warlord heroes at all^^

    #189923

    Epaminondas
    Member

    For me it’s Last Stand.<br>
    That spell is actually the reason why I get Warlord heroes at all^^

    That’s the only spell you acquire on Warlord?!

    I find with the new expansion that the Warlord is easily my 2nd favorite hero – after Theocrat – due to Blood Brothers.

    #189943

    For An AD, savage rage is just critical for virtually any situation. As the AD leader, it just makes your super awesome animal units even more super awesome. For a warlord, your warbreed are fantastic. Necromancer? Comes now the DREAD REAPER. Sorcerer? Horror of Horrors (also node serpents and watchers). None of the above? well, then there are naga, ogres, wyverns, etc. Rust strike is probably a close second, because machines don’t deserve to not have rust on them.

    For the warlord, I might actually prefer lions courage to last stand. At least for their units, strong will is a mighty buff that keeps things from running away.

    For theocrats, slayers doubt is always useful. Especially for early dungeons where you don’t want that manticore rider to get too close. Stiffen limbs for the necromancer on much the same grounds. For rogues, it is quick dash. For the Dreadnought, I always get force field.

    Sorcerers have so many good spells, but star blades is so superior. cheap, shocking, multi channel (obviously works with elves).

    #189977

    SiaFu
    Member

    In my experience, when manually fighting independents and regular troops it is more worthwile to increase defense than hit points.
    Most attacks can occur 3x in one round (melee, bolts etc.) Each point in defense reduces the damage taken by one, saving you 1 HP per physical attack – and your hero is more likely to be attacked by several opponents.

    Resistance works similarly for elemental attacks, but the damage is adjusted with % resistances. So when faced with direct damage spells and elemental attacks, I’d rather go for resistance as it helps with various inflicts, status effects etc.

    Instead of investing into HP, I usually bring someone with healing, as it’s much more skillpoint-efficient, can be used on other biologicals and you can forge it on Useables you keep in the backpack to use every three rounds.

    I’d only consider investing into HP if I somehow got Regrowth early, which is now only available on Epic or better loot armor and can’t be forged.
    Or when my high level heroes have all the interesting abilities I’d want and I can spare the 1-2 SP to have an easier time facing TierIVs.

    #190212

    Fenraellis
    Member

    I would simply point out that the base unranked Cavalry HP is 55, and I doubt anyone really considers them tanky. Also, after a certain point to counter ranged attacks(as mentioned earlier), it’s a little silly to try and build sufficient Defense to attempt to nullify melee attacks of 20, 25, or even higher, damage outputs. That’s where raw HP comes in.
    The raw HP also helps you withstand more ranged attacks hitting you for 1/hit, and especially multi-channel attacks(melee or ranged) from which you do not have immunities, but are often ‘easy’ to bring down to 1 damage per channel.

    As for guaranteed pick spells, regardless of player-class, Epaminondas:
    — Archdruid: Savage Rage, Revitalize and the new and improved Call Beast Horde.
    (Rust Strike, Hornet Swarm and Twisting Roots are all circumstantial. Vengeful Vines as well.)
    — Dreadnought: Force Field, Dampening Field.
    (Choking Fumes is a guaranteed pick for Necromancer, and Summon Siege Engine and Destabilized Mana Core would be circumstantial picks.)
    — Necromancer: Stiffen Limbs, Dark Gift(except when against Necromancer, and potentially Dreadnought… it’s still a damage buff, though), Scourge of Undead.
    (Raise Dead, possibly as well, as a much lesser form of Scourge)
    — Rogue: Quick Dash, Blind, Sadism.
    (Smoke Screen and Mass Battlefield Panic being circumstantial.)
    — Sorcerer: Chain Lightning, Mass Stasis, Static Electricity.
    (Arcane Binding when against Summoners, and Chaos Rift if feasible, of course.)
    — Theocrat: Smite, Blessing of Health, and possibly Slayer’s Doubt.
    (Instant Wrath is generally taken, but not always worth it, and Power of the Word is a weaker strength, more resisted, Mass Stasis. Albeit for a longer duration.)
    — Warlord: Last Stand, Lion’s Courage, Relentless Army.
    (Bloodbath is great too, and guaranteed to be useful on the same turn it is cast, but also more expensive to cast than Relentless Army.)

    Now, I didn’t mention most of the starter spells, but that’s because I generally take what the Hero comes with, and only invest in future spells. Although, if I’m playing a Class and Specialization set that lacks decent basic combat spells, then I would be much more inclined to pick up the basic combat spell on the Hero if they didn’t start with it.

    #190243

    NuMetal
    Member

    That’s the only spell you acquire on Warlord?!

    I find with the new expansion that the Warlord is easily my 2nd favorite hero – after Theocrat – due to Blood Brothers.

    Well, Blood Brothers is a lvl7 ability and it truely is amazing, but it doesn’t help me at the beginning of the game and till then the Warlord doesn’t have much going for him skillwise. With a fitting force the Command upgrades can be nice but tbh I prefer the stack wide buffs of the other classes more (extra res and a new damage channel above all).
    However what the Warlord can give me is Last Stand, which will make me unable to lose any fight while clearing anything for 7 CP only. So he can even cast it twice on Level 1.

    Just cast the spell on your biggest bruiser on the first turn of a fight and let him stand in the range of your opponent while you keep your other units out of it. They’ll attack him, deal no damage, take some damage and won’t have their guard bonus and can be flanked -> you win the fight without losses.
    Also if you do have any unit with tireless you can make this become even sicker and all your other units can just lean back and watch your tireless Bruiser kill everything on his own simply by standing there.

    For the warlord, I might actually prefer lions courage to last stand.

    Sure, this is also a niccce spell, but at least for me it’s barely as useful as Last Stand.
    If I know that the opponent uses strong abilities/spells that use the spirit channel then it’s amazing, all the other times it’s also pretty good, but not as good as Last Stand. I’m killing everything anyways, the only question is how much damage I take and with Last Stand the answer is “almost none”.

    Also I only play Singleplayer and never Multiplayer. Therefore I don’t have people spamming Berserk, Slayers Doubt, Panic Attack and Blind. So Lion’s Courage isn’t as important to me 😉

    @Epimanondas:
    I mostly only mentioned Last Stand because when a hero offers to join me I generally don’t consider what he will have on high levels since all heroes are awesome on high levels. I generally consider what he will give me now and within the first 2 level ups.
    That’s also why I dislike Dreadnaught heroes so much^^

    So here is for every class the main reason why I would take such a hero that offers to join me:

    Necromancer: Stiffen Limbs
    Warlord: Last Stand
    Archdruid: Heal + stackwide res
    Theocrat: Heal + stackwide res + stackwide extra damage channel
    Sorcerer: stackwide res + stackwide extra damage channel
    Dreadnaught: stackwide res
    Rogue: Quick Dash

    #191551

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I
    As for guaranteed pick spells, regardless of player-class, Epaminondas:<br>
    – Archdruid: Savage Rage, Revitalize and the new and improved Call Beast Horde.<br>
    (Rust Strike, Hornet Swarm and Twisting Roots are all circumstantial. Vengeful Vines as well.)<br>
    – Dreadnought: Force Field, Dampening Field.<br>
    (Choking Fumes is a guaranteed pick for Necromancer, and Summon Siege Engine and Destabilized Mana Core would be circumstantial picks.)<br>
    – Necromancer: Stiffen Limbs, Dark Gift(except when against Necromancer, and potentially Dreadnought… it’s still a damage buff, though), Scourge of Undead.<br>
    (Raise Dead, possibly as well, as a much lesser form of Scourge)<br>
    – Rogue: Quick Dash, Blind, Sadism.<br>
    (Smoke Screen and Mass Battlefield Panic being circumstantial.)<br>
    – Sorcerer: Chain Lightning, Mass Stasis, Static Electricity.<br>
    (Arcane Binding when against Summoners, and Chaos Rift if feasible, of course.)<br>
    – Theocrat: Smite, Blessing of Health, and possibly Slayer’s Doubt.<br>
    (Instant Wrath is generally taken, but not always worth it, and Power of the Word is a weaker strength, more resisted, Mass Stasis. Albeit for a longer duration.)<br>
    – Warlord: Last Stand, Lion’s Courage, Relentless Army.<br>
    (Bloodbath is great too, and guaranteed to be useful on the same turn it is cast, but also more expensive to cast than Relentless Army.)

    A follow-up question: How many CPs do your heroes have at the end game? I rarely have more than 45 at level 20, because going from 45 to 55 seems too much of an opportunity cost.

    I’d be interested in the CPs of other folks’ heroes as well.

    I mostly only mentioned Last Stand because when a hero offers to join me I generally don’t consider what he will have on high levels since all heroes are awesome on high levels. I generally consider what he will give me now and within the first 2 level ups.<br>
    That’s also why I dislike Dreadnaught heroes so much^^

    So here is for every class the main reason why I would take such a hero that offers to join me:

    Necromancer: Stiffen Limbs<br>
    Warlord: Last Stand<br>
    Archdruid: Heal + stackwide res<br>
    Theocrat: Heal + stackwide res + stackwide extra damage channel<br>
    Sorcerer: stackwide res + stackwide extra damage channel<br>
    Dreadnaught: stackwide res<br>
    Rogue: Quick Dash

    Ah, ok; now I understand.

    Dreadnaughts don’t give much in terms of spells, but they do give you a lot of resistances – as you yourself note.

    #191580

    stellarrat
    Member

    60 – 65. The way I figure if the hero has other special resistances/abilities like projectile resistance, regeneration, and magic items they should be OK. HP is not a flexible attribute, while mana or more spells, etc… gives you a lot of combat options that will hopefully make damage to your hero less likely. Also, it’s pretty rare for me to get into melee combat with my hero unless I’ve really screwed up or I’m just finishing people off. So, magic and ranged ability are way more important than HP in my book.

    #191585

    Epaminondas
    Member

    60 – 65. The way I figure if the hero has other special resistances/abilities like projectile resistance, regeneration, and magic items they should be OK. HP is not a flexible attribute, while mana or more spells, etc… gives you a lot of combat options that will hopefully make damage to your hero less likely. Also, it’s pretty rare for me to get into melee combat with my hero unless I’ve really screwed up or I’m just finishing people off. So, magic and ranged ability are way more important than HP in my book.

    Interesting: You definitely go way higher than me; and you completely forgo the melee hero option (I tend not to do melee heroes either).

    If you are going that high in CP, I take it you buy class battlefield ultimate spells – except on Sorcerer?

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