How many races you need to be happy?

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions How many races you need to be happy?

This topic contains 53 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by  Avalisc 7 years, 12 months ago.

Viewing 24 posts - 31 through 54 (of 54 total)
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  • #95418

    Frostling
    Tigrans
    Dark Elves

    nomad and necromancer classes

    and I will be happy

    #95422

    poerk55
    Member

    Wish list:
    – At least 4 more races
    – More racial units, diversity,
    – At least one more unique racial unit added per tier
    – Necromancer class
    – More global spells, e.g. Torrential rain(wetlands).

    I need stuff to play with goddamnit and i want races to feel Unique as they did in previous games. Screw balance!

    #95437

    melkathi
    Member

    Wait, are you saying you don’t want more depth to the races? You want the class to be the only defining difference? (don’t take these as rhetorical questions, I’m just trying to be clear on your position)

    BBB answered it well 🙂 See below:

    He thought you were saying that you prefer the races we have now, because they have more depth. He is saying that the current races don’t have more depth than the old races,

    #95438

    Wish list:<br>

    – More racial units, diversity,<br>

    – At least one more unique racial unit added per tier<br>

    – More global spells, e.g. Torrential rain(wetlands).

    I’d be interested in hearing your thought here. Please elaborate.

    #95460

    Kubera
    Member

    Can – should not increase the number of racial units. There are other options

    1. Give additional each unit (T1-T2) skills\properties. Can be basic. Can for medals. Make diversity.
    2. Enhance contrast characteristics (someone raise damage, someone HP, someone DEF, someone speed).
    3. Writing to units T1 and T2 fifth medal. Experience the fifth medal is given only for the destruction – the leader, hero, T3 or T4.
    4. Enter skills giving bonus to protect the city. For example, some units may have bonuses of staying in the city (with city protection battle). For example more shots (T1-T2).

    #95509

    Rabiator
    Member

    @BLOODBATTLEBRAIN
    Because the races “feel the same” or “arent really useable” I think the first order of the day is to REVAMP and FIX THEM.

    I think the devs have caught too much of the “balance whining” (which has ruined many good games like WoW and others) and then got afraid of giving certain races radically different stuff from the rest. The races feel “less distinct” due to their lack of “overpoweredness”. The key thing to understand is that OVERPOWERED IS OK … IF IT IS BALANCED BY DRAWBACKS. The Siege Tank from Brood War is the perfect example for that, because it is powerful but immobile. In AoW3 all the T4 units are basically super mobile and moreso than the rest of the units. This only increases the “I want to run around with a T4 stack” problem and they missed one option for balance.

    I am just looking through the options for creating magic items in the game … and for some slots there is NOTHING I WOULD WANT. The devs did that to “keep heroes from becoming OP”, but they failed to understand that “becoming OP” is a reward for playing well …

    Dear devs,

    OVERPOWERED IS OK … as long as you give each race/class its own chances for becoming OP AND as long as you balance it with significant drawbacks. The war machines of the Dreadnought should have greater elemental vulnerabilities for example, the Eldritch Horror and the Horned God a lower movement, don’t be afraid to put in a “one per stack” rule for the Juggernaut, …

    Spice up the flavour of the game, but balance it through drawbacks and achilles heels. The “achilles heel” of Goblins (-5 hp) is a TERRIBLE idea though, because Goblin units would consist of MORE CREATURES and thus end up with the same hp. And in any case this drawback affects goblin heroes, but they arent affected by the cost reduction for hiring … which doesnt make sense.

    #95526

    SpookerT
    Member

    Races are nearly irrelevant to actual gameplay in AoW3. So adding more would change little in that regard. But aesthetically speaking some of the old favorites are glaringly missing from the world.

    1. Halflings – The race that gave the world a cozy, living, classic fantasy feel. A thematic opposite to the Goblins.
    2. Dark Elves – The new Generic Elves really don’t sit well with me. They capture none of the DE flavor. There aren’t enough native players in the underground plane without them too.
    3. Tigrans – Not strictly required for thematically balancing out the world, but they were the signature AoW race to me more than any other. Cats are cool. Fire is cool. Fire Cats? Awesome!
    4. The Undead – A very special theme. No fantasy world is complete without an undead menace. As sporadic NPCs they aren’t very threatening. They should be featured front and center, spreading the blight and converting the living into their dead legions.

    #95529

    Erwin
    Member

    Hey guys!

    It’s awesome to see you guys so excited! While we are working on the new race we are also working on small changes to make the races feel more different from each other and add more flavor to them. You’ll just have to be a bit more patient for now 😉

    #95542

    NuMetal
    Member

    we are also working on small changes to make the races feel more different from each other and add more flavor to them.

    AWESOME!!! <3

    On topic:
    How many races do you need to be happy?
    All of them!
    That is all of the old races. And then new ones.
    Of course I am already happy, but every new race would make me more happy 😉
    Also new classes. I’d want those too.
    Basically I’m a junky and I always need more 😛
    (But unlike a junky I’m always happy with and grateful for what I already have)

    #95591

    GoblinCookie
    Member

    Hey guys!

    It’s awesome to see you guys so excited! While we are working on the new race we are also working on small changes to make the races feel more different from each other and add more flavor to them. You’ll just have to be a bit more patient for now ;)

    Official confirmation that a new race is being made, yay!

    I wonder which race it is, I bet it is either the halflings because of of being fan favourite and references to them being in the game or the undead because they are already in as a dwelling.

    #95597

    NEHZ
    Member

    It’s frostlings, duh.
    Frostlings are the actual fan favourite, loved so much I don’t even need to count the number of posts to know there’s more requests for frostlings than for halflings. Everyone wants frostlings, look into yourself and you know it to be true.
    More importantly though, if they don’t add in frostlings we might get a new ice age this very winter. The universe requires balance!

    #95598

    Erwin
    Member

    @goblincookie

    Lennart made a post about it last week. There is also a speculation topic you might find interesting which can be found here:

    http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/speculation/

    #95603

    Kubera
    Member

    You’ll just have to be a bit more patient for now

    I think in this topic gathered in a little less than 0.01% of the players. I really appreciate your work – but opinion fanatics like me and BBB (we a lot suggestion and do not always – “like it more people also want this suggestion”).

    Honestly, I recently spent the analyst:

    AoW 3
    http://www.steamcharts.com/app/226840

    Only one game found in near quantitative range of players.
    Endless Space
    http://www.steamcharts.com/app/208140

    In one case, a very large the concentration of people:
    Sid Meier’s Civilization V
    http://www.steamcharts.com/app/8930
    but there is a constant blame advertising and PR.

    In other cases, a lot less:
    Warlock – Master of the Arcane
    http://www.steamcharts.com/app/203630

    Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes
    http://www.steamcharts.com/app/228260

    This is a very stunning result. However, be sure that we know desire 10-20 thousandth crowd of players.. I think in a lot more dev.. understanding of the whole picture =)

    #95633

    poerk55
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>poerk55 wrote:</div>
    Wish list:<br>

    – More racial units, diversity,<br>

    – At least one more unique racial unit added per tier<br>

    – More global spells, e.g. Torrential rain(wetlands).

    I’d be interested in hearing your thought here. Please elaborate.

    Well, In shadow magic, e.g. orcs had doom bats, abominations, gluttons etc. Units that were unique and didn’t fall into the typical infantry, archer, cavalry categories we have in AoW3. Units that gave races flavour. Draconians had a hydra.

    Wrt. Global spells, in Shadow magic you could for instance create enchanted forrests that would damage units passing through them, you could raise and lower the terrain or create great floods that changed the landscape dramatically. I miss those kind of things. Elven cities were hidden if they were located in forrests. Again flavour.

    #95647

    Kubera
    Member

    Wrt. Global spells, in Shadow magic you could for instance create enchanted forrests that would damage units passing through them, you could raise and lower the terrain or create great floods that changed the landscape dramatically. I miss those kind of things. Elven cities were hidden if they were located in forrests. Again flavour.

    It was more natural summoned creatures (Black Spider, Lurker, Wyrm, Chaos Spawn, Chaos Lord, Efreet and others). For each specialization needed a couple of “new” (old AoW2 and Aow1) spells (and adept and master).

    #95648

    @ Rabiator and Poerk55,

    I have listed examples for how I would add flavour, and fun, and still not make things OP.

    @ Rabiator, I understand what you are saying, but I wouldn’t say make a race OP in one way and then UP in another, because calling anything OP or UP on the internet is just asking for trouble!

    I’d rather say, leverage advantages and disadvantages and tie them to racial character.

    Goblins having less hp is a fantastic idea, and well executed. Play Goblins alot, then play Orcs (I chose Orcs because they have extra hp, use any race and you”notice the difference in survivability), and you’ll notice that Goblins die much faster.

    About Goblin heroes, yeah it’s been noted. I would suggest that Goblin heroes themselves should also cost less. Your first hero costs 100, but if it were a Goblin, what if it cost 90? The lower hp basicaly means you need to spend a lvl boosting it.

    #95650

    Kubera
    Member

    About Goblin heroes, yeah it’s been noted. I would suggest that Goblin heroes themselves should also cost less. Your first hero costs 100, but if it were a Goblin, what if it cost 90? The lower hp basicaly means you need to spend a lvl boosting it.

    The same applies to the dwarves. Heroes gnomes most good. They should cost more.
    I would suggest another – change the value of salary for different units. Not to weaken the strongest units (not nerf) – just raise the cost of their salary (4 instead make 5, 8 instead make 9 or 10).

    #95787

    Avalisc
    Member

    First of all, this is my first post (hi, I’m new here).

    About the necromancer class. I agree.
    A zombie as the basic summon.
    Bone soldiers and archers (with racial bonusses).
    Necromancer as a tier II unit. And maybe a death knight.
    A Bone Horror as a major summon and a tier III unit. (I love these guys).
    And, as the tie IV unit, the Dread Reaper. I think that a summon matchs more than a unit to produce.

    About the back of the archons, well, in my opinion, there is the teochrat, that is much similar and plays the oposition against the undead.

    I miss frostlings (because there is no race for the artic lands) and the halflings (much more because of the gnome and the sherif). The lizardmen would be a nice (very nice) adition, but I didin’t used them that much.

    For the nomad type, there is the “explorer” specialization. Maybe a “master” level to it is better.

    And, to put and end to my first write on this forum, I want more unique racial units. It’s great to have the basic units similar, but I want more. And a support or an archer that is tie III or IV is welcome. Or, at least, more, because I only remember the archdruid shaman, by now.

    #95795

    LordBlade
    Member

    I would love to see more races, get back up to 12 or so.

    But more than just quantity of races, I want to see QUALITY.

    I want to see races stand out far more than they do now. Yes, there’s some minor little tweaks to units based on race, but for the most part, you’re just going to be running around with stacks of doom of your top class units, as they generally smash the crap out of everything else (except for Rogue).

    I want to see races have a lot more impact. Great stat/ability variance, more unit variety (instead of just irregular, archer, melee, etc) for everyone. Give different races some vastly different units. Some of them having notable abilities unique to that race (like one of the big Shadow units had a devour ability).

    Make the races stand out just as much as the classes do. So you don’t just look at enemies and think, “Oh, there’s a Warlord” or “Here’s comes some Druid units”. You’d actually CARE what races were a part of the armies you’re facing.

    As the game stands now, I generally don’t ever migrate cities, because I have no need to. I build them up so I can pump out my class units, and then slaughter everything. I don’t care if my Manticore Rider is a Goblin or Human or Elf, it’s doing the same thing.

    #95812

    GoblinCookie
    Member

    @ Rabiator and Poerk55,

    I have listed examples for how I would add flavour, and fun, and still not make things OP.

    @ Rabiator, I understand what you are saying, but I wouldn’t say make a race OP in one way and then UP in another, because calling anything OP or UP on the internet is just asking for trouble!

    I’d rather say, leverage advantages and disadvantages and tie them to racial character.

    Goblins having less hp is a fantastic idea, and well executed. Play Goblins alot, then play Orcs (I chose Orcs because they have extra hp, use any race and you”notice the difference in survivability), and you’ll notice that Goblins die much faster.

    About Goblin heroes, yeah it’s been noted. I would suggest that Goblin heroes themselves should also cost less. Your first hero costs 100, but if it were a Goblin, what if it cost 90? The lower hp basicaly means you need to spend a lvl boosting it.

    Goblins are a very powerful race, with very powerful units such as the Swarm Darter, which ties for the best archer unit with the high elves. If not for the hitpoint disadvantage goblins would be invincible.

    I can’t see why this should not transfer to goblin heroes, both because it is realistic and because there is no reason goblins should be more powerful than they already are.

    #95818

    Leon Feargus
    Member

    I, for one, am content with the way the races are designed, still happy to hear they are working on some refinement.

    The minor differences between the races may not have a great impact on competitive play, they do wonders for a more adventurous, roleplaying style of play. (imagine this game with only humans)

    I could say that – I do wish that race would influence morale and alignment, so that all units of your starting race would have positive morale modifiers applied to them, whereas units of other races would have either no or negative morale modifiers applied to them. This, in the fashion like it has been throughout the series. Elves and Dwarves start out slightly good and do not stroke well with Orcs and Goblins who start out slightly evil. – but I think this is a balance issue that could not be resolved otherwise.

    I do not mind how the lineup of units is pretty straightforward with the exception of all t3’s being brawlers (either infantry or cavalry).

    I really like the addition of dwellings and I do hope there will be many more flavours of these.

    As for how many races I would like to be added … I am thinking somewhere between a whole lot and a tremendous lot.

    Personal favorites:
    All of them!

    #95833

    I want to see races have a lot more impact. Great stat/ability variance, more unit variety (instead of just irregular, archer, melee, etc) for everyone. Give different races some vastly different units. Some of them having notable abilities unique to that race (like one of the big Shadow units had a devour ability).

    Please flesh these ideas out.

    At the risk of blowing my own trumpet, see the Hafling outline I made.

    I used the basic template, then make the irregular different (mighty meek, no ranged damage) the archer different (4 chances to hurl stones, so it’ll always launch at least 2) the tier 1 melee different (Pony Rider) their cavalry different (weak, ranged) and their t3 different (irregular, very good scouting, bad in melee) and even their pike unit different (as in, it doesn’t exist).

    And then, to fit it into the game, I suggested Goblins get their skewer early, so you have an easy Hafling/Goblin dichotomy.

    I was thinking, if Shadow Demons came back, how cool would it be if they didn’t build cities and recruit units the normal way?

    I could see them as a race whose cities spawn free larvae automatically, the rate dependent on city size (but they are very slow (24 mp) and very weak) and the player pays to upgrade them directly. They could be much more mana intensive and less gold intensive.

    The city itself could be upgradeable to unlock higher tier units, although I would be just as happy if the SD player could upgrade his units straight away. If the cities were living cities as well (so more a Queen than a Hive), which consume gold and mana, and can move a little bit, and defend themselves- these are mad ideas, I know, but that’s how I roll.

    Recruitment, i.e. new larvae, come from cities and from infesting enemies, which Larvae themselves can do (i.e. 1 larvae jumps into enemy unit, splits it open and spawns 2 larvae 2 or 3 turns later) or have a Harvester unit that eats enemies and spawns them out 2 or 3 turns later.

    #95872

    Gyor
    Member

    Reading the Ham interview, the current blurbs are cool, but they should have been in addition to typical descriptions, because while the blurbs add some flavour, its the typical descriptions which help establish the units place in the world.

    Just my option.

    #96121

    Avalisc
    Member

    I agree with LordBlade. The races need to do more impact in the game.

    But, I must agree that its logical that all races have their infantry, archers and knights. Even that they different (as they are). The great difference is only neede for they be different, really different.

    I think that the manticore knight is the only tier IV unit of the classes that receive the effects of the races. Well, the way it is, there’s about no difference between a goblin or a dwarf. For the others, there’s no difference at all. And I think that could be a difference for a juggernaut built by humans and one built by dwarfs.

    I believe the key is to put specific buildings for every race. And, some combos with specializations and class. This way, the city won’t be the same, except for the class and the race. Plus, there is the possibility of differences in minor and major levels.

    About morale and alignment, well, I liked the way they are. Orcs aren’t evil just for being orcs. But, if there was a racial alingment and a morale alingment, it should be interesting.

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