I wrote a guide on Necromancers for anyone that's interested.

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This topic contains 80 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  Gloweye 6 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #224909

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    You can find it here on Steam:

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=502936615

    Feedback is welcomed, hope it helps.

    #224910

    ExNihil
    Member

    Nice m8! Perhaps copy it here as well? So people who are on GoG will also have access to your wisdom 🙂

    #224935

    Why no frostlings? Frozen flame pledge of protection, double life steal t2 and a healing t3 sound pretty good to me.

    #224937

    Gloweye
    Member

    Why no frostlings? Frozen flame pledge of protection, double life steal t2 and a healing t3 sound pretty good to me.

    I had much the same question…

    http://steamcommunity.com/app/226840/discussions/0/521643320352904781/

    5th comment.

    #224940

    Not to mention the power of the mammoth with regular healing. Or shadowborn with wide spread life stealing.

    #224953

    ExNihil
    Member

    Of the little Necro I saw in MP I think Felix is correct in his analysis that Draconians are a top pick. I aggree Frostlings are good as well, at least on paper and what I saw in PBEM convinces me they are viable, but it seems that in live MP this combo is less common. Perhaps Frostling-Necro has a bad AC survivability, in fact I wouldn’t be surprised, since Frostlings in general don’t do auto-well.

    #224955

    I’ve had good luck with healing mammoths on the ac. I really don’t see how spamming healing white witches can be bad.

    Also, why are ad bad heroes for necro? They have rust strike, physical ranged damage, ability to heal the hero before harbinger, frost immunity for undead, spirit protection, and regrowth and lightning at level.

    Savage rage is also great with bone horrors, and still useful on banshees and reapers.

    Not to mention theocrats with spirit damage and despair.

    #224964

    I also prefer Halflings for their morale buffs. But I’m not a MP AC guy. Two things not mentioned imo are Destruction Adept for Hasty Plunder and Animate Ruins and Control Undead for the leader for getting Deathbringers or Reanimators early (tough chance for AC I suppose). I mainly play coop against Emperor AIs.

    #224996

    Dagoth Ur
    Member

    I’m surprised not to see Destruction Adept in the specialization picks. I run that on almost every multiplayer build, but it seems even more useful for Necromancers than for other classes.

    #225000

    NINJEW
    Member

    goblin necro is pretty good too. higher pop growth helps a lot with necro, butchers + vampiric hunger + shadowborn gives you a great triple lifesteal unit, weaken on blight doctors helps you get around blight resistant enemies, big beetles are a powerful t3 you can spam that will still wreck machines if you run into a dreadnought (so your normally blight reliant army can still function just fine if you later find out that your opponent went machines), with embalming and r2 you can get 44 hp swarm darters which is pretty sweet, you’ll naturally start in blighted terrain which is good for necro (makes conquering your cities a much bigger pain in the ass than any other terrain), your units have some nice bonuses in the UG as an extra plus, and while your reanimators aren’t anything fancy they are very cheap considering the damage bonus they get.

    certainly at least as noteable as dwarf necro

    #225005

    NINJEW
    Member

    wait does that guide seriously say to not bother with banshees vs dreadnought

    #225144

    I haven’t played that much drac necro (at least on ac all the time), but I remember drac auto live relying a lot on fast healing. And with flying pike units, I really doubt they are that much better at ac than frostling necro (who gain rather than lose healing with the deadification). Frost infantry at least have shields.

    Not that the drac are bad, they are at the top, just like frostling and halfling.

    #225145

    madmac
    Member

    Frostling Necromancer has no notable issues with autocombat that I’ve noticed.

    Goblins, as mentioned, are very good Necromancers because they get around the economy restrictions with fast growth and cheap, strong units.

    Orc Necro is also quite nice, it’s a lot like playing Orc Theocrat with your powerful melee units buffed to the gills and backed up with strong healing.

    #225169

    Also white witches swim, so you can have watery death (fast disembark is also probably something). Gives you a way for self sustaining armies to avoid dread land armies and ironclads. The frostling theocrat can also do this, which is an underated ability (in my mind).

    #225235

    Yigg
    Member

    Nice guide, I hadn’t been using cadavers as scouts but it seems like they’d be ideal for that. I agree Draconians make fine necros, but I’ve had great success with Frostlings and Dwarves as well. Mammoths and Reanimators (once they have minor reanimate) make good teams, because of their massive health pool when they’re rezzed.

    #225287

    Stormwind
    Member

    I find stalkers very difficult to deal with as a necro…what do you all do against those?

    #225288

    NINJEW
    Member

    the answer is generally going to be racial supports, same as most any other class. they’re rogue’s most/only effective weapon vs necro, so expect to have a rough time against them.

    #225297

    Gloweye
    Member

    I find stalkers very difficult to deal with as a necro…what do you all do against those?

    Mass Banshees.

    Frostling’s better at it though – your racials are going to be immune to the frost damage compartment of the Stalkers, as well as all inflicts the stalkers have. It’ll be a long boring battle cause neither hits hard, but it does work.

    #225298

    NINJEW
    Member

    oh right

    yeah banshees can fight toe to toe with stalkers. i dunno if they straight up win the 1v1, but they can definitely hold the stalkers at bay while dealing equivalent damage while you barrage them with support fire

    #225299

    Gloweye
    Member

    Best is to have another unit tank while the Banshee flanks the Stalker when it’s out of action points. However, they do kind of work in 1v1’s, but I’d avoid it. They might be cheaper, but the cost is CP instead of gold.

    #225302

    NINJEW
    Member

    well, the banshee also hardly gets hurt at all by shadow stalkers, thanks to incorporeal + 60% frost protection. i’d think the optimal move would be to let the banshee tank the stalker’s otherwise devastating damage output, dealing damage through retaliations while other units try to chip the stalker out.

    #225426

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    Frostlings do very poor not only in AC but in a mirror match as well, Frostling have no way to relaibly deal with shadowstalkers either, and a T3 Support just doesnt work well for Necromancer.

    #225427

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    I also prefer Halflings for their morale buffs. But I’m not a MP AC guy. Two things not mentioned imo are Destruction Adept for Hasty Plunder and Animate Ruins and Control Undead for the leader for getting Deathbringers or Reanimators early (tough chance for AC I suppose). I mainly play coop against Emperor AIs.

    Halfling lack a way to deal with Machines/Shadow Stalkers effectively just like Frostlings.

    #225429

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    goblin necro is pretty good too. higher pop growth helps a lot with necro, butchers + vampiric hunger + shadowborn gives you a great triple lifesteal unit, weaken on blight doctors helps you get around blight resistant enemies, big beetles are a powerful t3 you can spam that will still wreck machines if you run into a dreadnought (so your normally blight reliant army can still function just fine if you later find out that your opponent went machines), with embalming and r2 you can get 44 hp swarm darters which is pretty sweet, you’ll naturally start in blighted terrain which is good for necro (makes conquering your cities a much bigger pain in the ass than any other terrain), your units have some nice bonuses in the UG as an extra plus, and while your reanimators aren’t anything fancy they are very cheap considering the damage bonus they get.

    certainly at least as noteable as dwarf necro

    Double Blight Support is awful, useless against Shadow Stalkers/Machines. Halflings/Frosttlings/Goblins all might seem fun and what nought, but in a Competitive game where you are likely to see Stalkers or Machines or both! I’d never take these Races.

    #225430

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    Frostling Necromancer has no notable issues with autocombat that I’ve noticed.

    Goblins, as mentioned, are very good Necromancers because they get around the economy restrictions with fast growth and cheap, strong units.

    Orc Necro is also quite nice, it’s a lot like playing Orc Theocrat with your powerful melee units buffed to the gills and backed up with strong healing.

    Again double blight support on Orcs, I mean sure its nice, but this is about competitive MP not casual SP.

    #225431

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    I find stalkers very difficult to deal with as a necro…what do you all do against those?

    Mass Banshees.

    Frostling’s better at it though – your racials are going to be immune to the frost damage compartment of the Stalkers, as well as all inflicts the stalkers have. It’ll be a long boring battle cause neither hits hard, but it does work.

    Bane Fire is much more effective and also allows you to reanimate any Banshees that die. If your plan is to build racials as opposed to reanimators you might as well just play theo and reanimators are one of the best T2 in the game. Bane Fire on Drac Reanimators make them relevant in almost every match up possible.

    #225433

    Frostlings do very poor not only in AC but in a mirror match as well, Frostling have no way to relaibly deal with shadowstalkers either, and a T3 Support just doesnt work well for Necromancer.

    An undead white witch with frozen flame will fight a stalker one on one and nearly kill it. Also, Madmac is a mp player.

    #225470

    Fenraellis
    Member

    For what it’s worth, I haven’t really tended to experience this “Frostlings do very poor in AC” thing, except against Fire based enemies. Which, while reasonably plentiful, are not on every street corner, and only really available from three races, one class, and one Specialization.

    Also, since when would a Frostling Necro not be able to use Banshees(or Reapers) against Shadow Stalkers, or the aforementioned Frozen Flames? Necros can actually do pretty well against Stalkers.

    On a side note:

    and a T3 Support just doesn’t work well for Necromancer.

    Since when? Heal Undead on a more mobile(than the T2 supports 28 Move, aside from Swimming of White Witches) and sturdier T3 unit is bad? Sure Despair from Reanimators is very useful for particular units, but not mandatory.
    This is even beside the fact that all but one of your class units has access to Frost damage for the Frost Dome effect to work with.

    Oh! Also Death Bringers can have Pledge of Protection used on them, due to being Female units. Royal Guards are already great for Necromancers, too, and fairly easy to make passively have a five-channel melee attack(if Shadowborn), with the sixth coming from Frozen Flames, if desired. Star Blades can make them six-channel as non-Shadowborn, of course.

    —–

    Lastly, Goblins get Inflict Weaken on Death Bringers, and eventually all Infantry/Pike/Irregular(but that’s RG5), questionably making Blight immune enemies less of a hassle, even aside from simply using Rot(against Machines/Undead, at least). Not to say that it’s easy, as it’s still definitely making a tricky matchup as Necro/Dread even more difficult by picking Goblin, but not insurmountable, either.

    #225472

    NINJEW
    Member

    Frostling have no way to relaibly deal with shadowstalkers either

    not even slightly true. every frostling unit comes with innate 60% frost protection! right off the bat the shadow stalker is having issues dealing damage to your units at above a t2 level. throw in frozen flames and there’s no issues what so ever.

    Double Blight Support is awful, useless against Shadow Stalkers/Machines. Halflings/Frosttlings/Goblins all might seem fun and what nought, but in a Competitive game where you are likely to see Stalkers or Machines or both! I’d never take these Races.

    that’s what weaken is for. as i mentioned, you can use mass beetle riders against machines to good effect.

    Again double blight support on Orcs, I mean sure its nice, but this is about competitive MP not casual SP.

    both me and madmac are MP players. i personally play MP exclusively, outside of build practice.

    #225505

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    Frostlings do very poor not only in AC but in a mirror match as well, Frostling have no way to relaibly deal with shadowstalkers either, and a T3 Support just doesnt work well for Necromancer.

    An undead white witch with frozen flame will fight a stalker one on one and nearly kill it. Also, Madmac is a mp player.

    Frostling have no way to relaibly deal with shadowstalkers either

    not even slightly true. every frostling unit comes with innate 60% frost protection! right off the bat the shadow stalker is having issues dealing damage to your units at above a t2 level. throw in frozen flames and there’s no issues what so ever.

    Double Blight Support is awful, useless against Shadow Stalkers/Machines. Halflings/Frosttlings/Goblins all might seem fun and what nought, but in a Competitive game where you are likely to see Stalkers or Machines or both! I’d never take these Races.

    that’s what weaken is for. as i mentioned, you can use mass beetle riders against machines to good effect.

    Again double blight support on Orcs, I mean sure its nice, but this is about competitive MP not casual SP.

    both me and madmac are MP players. i personally play MP exclusively, outside of build practice.

    Any response, recommending to build racial units over Reanimators is missing the entire point of the class. With this logic, why even play Necromancer over Theo?

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