I wrote a guide on Necromancers for anyone that's interested.

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions I wrote a guide on Necromancers for anyone that's interested.

This topic contains 80 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  Gloweye 6 years, 10 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 31 through 60 (of 81 total)
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  • #225506

    madmac
    Member

    Any response, recommending to build racial units over Reanimators is missing the entire point of the class. With this logic, why even play Necromancer over Theo?

    Because Necromancer is a class built around primarily using your crazy buffed up racial units with class units filling mostly support roles, this has always been true. Reanimators are the most important class units but they aren’t the be all/end all unit by any means.

    No one is even saying you can’t use reanimators, but if you lose a match because you’re getting beat by a Rogue player/Stalkers and refuse to switch over to White Witches that’s on you, man.

    #225508

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    For what it’s worth, I haven’t really tended to experience this “Frostlings do very poor in AC” thing, except against Fire based enemies. Which, while reasonably plentiful, are not on every street corner, and only really available from three races, one class, and one Specialization.

    Fire is the most common damage type besides Physical, also Frozen Flames requires you to be building Racial units which is a waste of Necromancer potential.

    Also, since when would a Frostling Necro not be able to use Banshees(or Reapers) against Shadow Stalkers, or the aforementioned Frozen Flames? Necros can actually do pretty well against Stalkers.

    Reapers are irrelevant in any competitive match. The fact Frostling Necromancers get Banshees (like everyone else) doesnt change the fact that their Reanimators are all but entirely useless in that encounter.

    On a side note:

    and a T3 Support just doesn’t work well for Necromancer.

    Since when? Heal Undead on a more mobile(than the T2 supports 28 Move, aside from Swimming of White Witches) and sturdier T3 unit is bad? Sure Despair from Reanimators is very useful for particular units, but not mandatory.
    This is even beside the fact that all but one of your class units has access to Frost damage for the Frost Dome effect to work with.

    The comment on the racial T3 of Frostling is basically grasping at straws. Why would you need Heal Undead when all your Reanimators have Heal Undead AND Lesser Reanimation????

    Oh! Also Death Bringers can have Pledge of Protection used on them, due to being Female units. Royal Guards are already great for Necromancers, too, and fairly easy to make passively have a five-channel melee attack(if Shadowborn), with the sixth coming from Frozen Flames, if desired. Star Blades can make them six-channel as non-Shadowborn, of course.

    This post REALLY jumped around, and i hope any serious Necromancer players dont take this advice. Again building racial units over Necromancer Units, and also a mention of Starblades which means you’d have a Sorcerer as a Hero which is abysamal for Necromancer with much better Hero options.
    —–

    Lastly, Goblins get Inflict Weaken on Death Bringers, and eventually all Infantry/Pike/Irregular(but that’s RG5), questionably making Blight immune enemies less of a hassle, even aside from simply using Rot(against Machines/Undead, at least). Not to say that it’s easy, as it’s still definitely making a tricky matchup as Necro/Dread even more difficult by picking Goblin, but not insurmountable, either.

    And now a reccomendation of Rot. Wow. Yes let’s have Water Adpet for 1 relevant skill, Vengful Frost being very redundant on a Class with Death Ray. Summon Kraken has been and always will be useless.

    It’s almost like you didn’t even read the guide or have played Necromancer for more than 10~ games. Lol.

    #225509

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    Any response, recommending to build racial units over Reanimators is missing the entire point of the class. With this logic, why even play Necromancer over Theo?

    Because Necromancer is a class built around primarily using your crazy buffed up racial units with class units filling mostly support roles, this has always been true. Reanimators are the most important class units but they aren’t the be all/end all unit by any means.

    No one is even saying you can’t use reanimators, but if you lose a match because you’re getting beat by a Rogue player/Stalkers and refuse to switch over to White Witches that’s on you, man.

    this is false. Necromancer has never been about “crazy buffed up racial units” what are these crazy buffs??? 300 happiness? lol. Banshees/Reanimators are two of the strongest T2s in the game when used with synergy. allowing you to clear mythics (AC) as soon as you have healers of the dead researched with no losses and hardly any damage.

    #225511

    Zakharov
    Member

    this is false. Necromancer has never been about “crazy buffed up racial units” what are these crazy buffs??? 300 happiness? lol. Banshees/Reanimators are two of the strongest T2s in the game when used with synergy. allowing you to clear mythics (AC) as soon as you have healers of the dead researched with no losses and hardly any damage.

    Healers of the Dead, Vampiric Hunger, Power Ritual, Harbingers of Death and Enemy of the Faith all buff racial units. Reanimators are amazing, but you often also want some racial supports to cover their weaknesses.

    #225513

    NINJEW
    Member

    the idea that you shouldn’t use anything except class units on necromancer is very silly. i mean your cities should only build reanimators, bone collectors, and deathbringers forever? lol. come on man, there’s a huge swath of tactical options out there beyond your class units that all add to the class’s gameplay and provide options against otherwise poor matchups (such as, say, when fighting stalkers)

    i mean there’s a reason why embalming doesn’t affect your class units dude. building ghouls is a pretty big part of necro gameplay, and i wouldn’t trust the advice of anyone saying “if you’re going to build racials why are you even playing x class?” about any class.

    #225514

    NINJEW
    Member

    i mean your own guide recommends building elders when fighting a dreadnought

    but then when you’re recommended to build white witches vs a rogue that’s crossing the line into “just play theocrat” territory????

    #225516

    NINJEW
    Member

    also i’m pretty sure that fen is one of the most experienced players around. also of note: madmac is a beta tester, and one who specifically focused a lot of his time on the necromancer class.

    #225517

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    i mean your own guide recommends building elders when fighting a dreadnought

    but then when you’re recommended to build white witches vs a rogue that’s crossing the line into “just play theocrat” territory????

    i dont think you understand what youre saying here.

    As any race but draconian youre forced to build non reanimator support in NUMEROUS match ups.

    Machines
    Stalkers
    Frostlings
    Goblins
    Necromancer

    Black Bolts has awful typing, where as Bane Fire only really has one less than optimal match up which is Dreadnought, which is why Dreadnought got it’s own section. Until you have 400 hours as Necromancer and have played EVERY race please don’t comment on things you lack knowledge of, I have more playtime as Necromancer alone than youre entire playtime on this game. Learn a bit more before posting, this is a public forum.

    #225518

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    this is false. Necromancer has never been about “crazy buffed up racial units” what are these crazy buffs??? 300 happiness? lol. Banshees/Reanimators are two of the strongest T2s in the game when used with synergy. allowing you to clear mythics (AC) as soon as you have healers of the dead researched with no losses and hardly any damage.

    Healers of the Dead, Vampiric Hunger, Power Ritual, Harbingers of Death and Enemy of the Faith all buff racial units. Reanimators are amazing, but you often also want some racial supports to cover their weaknesses.

    Yes and as Draconian you only have one weakness to cover. Which is stated in the guide, which I think this whole board lacks the ability to actually read.

    #225519

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    also i’m pretty sure that fen is one of the most experienced players around. also of note: madmac is a beta tester, and one who specifically focused a lot of his time on the necromancer class.

    ok? Did he write a guide? is alot of that time as necromancer? MP? And what does beta tester have to do with anything??? Thats like saying all old people are smart because of their experiences? Its what they did with that time that matters, and if they can write a better guide i encourage it as the guide section for this game is very small.

    #225520

    NINJEW
    Member

    Until you have 400 hours as Necromancer and have played EVERY race please don’t comment on things you lack knowledge of, I have more playtime as Necromancer alone than youre entire playtime on this game. Learn a bit more before posting, this is a public forum.

    lol what the fuck is this bullshit

    #225521

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    Until you have 400 hours as Necromancer and have played EVERY race please don’t comment on things you lack knowledge of, I have more playtime as Necromancer alone than youre entire playtime on this game. Learn a bit more before posting, this is a public forum.

    lol what the fuck is this bullshit

    Until you have 400 hours as Necromancer and have played EVERY race please don’t comment on things you lack knowledge of, I have more playtime as Necromancer alone than youre entire playtime on this game. Learn a bit more before posting, this is a public forum.

    #225522

    NINJEW
    Member

    this sudden wall of proclaiming yourself the only person with valid opinions and that everyone else just needs to get on your level is ridiculous dude. i didn’t know that you weren’t interested in any kind of discourse or discussion over your guide, and as a result i’m somewhat confused as to why you posted it.

    #225523

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    this sudden wall of proclaiming yourself the only person with valid opinions and that everyone else just needs to get on your level is ridiculous dude. i didn’t know that you weren’t interested in any kind of discourse or discussion over your guide, and as a result i’m somewhat confused as to why you posted it.

    Im open to valid opinions with thought behind them. when that happens ill let you know

    #225524

    NINJEW
    Member

    you literally discount people because they don’t have enough hundreds of hours of playtime i don’t think that’s the issue here buddy

    like not even “you need to have hundreds” but straight up “that hundreds digit is not high enough”

    i don’t know why anyone would be interested in discussion with someone who has that kind of response to opposing views

    #225525

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    you literally discount people because they don’t have enough hundreds of hours of playtime i don’t think that’s the issue here buddy

    like not even “you need to have hundreds” but straight up “that hundreds digit is not high enough”

    i don’t know why anyone would be interested in discussion with someone who has that kind of response to opposing views

    again have you played the necromancer long enough to make valid conclusions? no.
    have you even read the guide and applied it? no.

    how can you discount something you havent done???

    #225526

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    and before you say you have, youve played AoW 6.8 hours in the last 2 weeks, so no you havent please dont lie.

    #225527

    NINJEW
    Member

    i don’t need to try the guide out to say “frostling necro is pretty worthwhile too” dude

    no one has been critical of any part of your guide so far except the part where you say that goblin and frostling necros “aren’t worth mentioning.”

    please try reading the thread

    #225528

    NINJEW
    Member

    i mean if you really want i’ll try to give it a spin when i get back to my apartment tomorrow but the guide says it’s for 4-6 player ffa which is a little difficult for me to get set up in a timely manner

    not that i understand how that has anything to do with the viability of frostling necro

    #225530

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    i mean if you really want i’ll try to give it a spin when i get back to my apartment tomorrow but the guide says it’s for 4-6 player ffa which is a little difficult for me to get set up in a timely manner

    not that i understand how that has anything to do with the viability of frostling necro

    it doesnt. but if it was for a 1v1 the guide would be much different, its just to give the suggestions a background as far as what the envrionment these choices are made in.

    #225531

    NINJEW
    Member

    the guide would be much different if it was for 1v1? or should the same advice apply? because i could set up a 1v1 with madmac in a snap if 1v1 is on the table

    #225533

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    the guide would be much different if it was for 1v1? or should the same advice apply? because i could set up a 1v1 with madmac in a snap if 1v1 is on the table

    hero choices/tech choices would be different, as in a 1v1 youre not as likely to get a dread all the way to 9, if map is still medium then maybe.. but on small def not.

    #225534

    Brutal_Felix
    Member

    in 1v1 i would consider Archdruid/Theo heroes to give you heal since you may not have harbingers by time you fight as another example

    #225535

    NINJEW
    Member

    it’d be medium, surface only, land map, with every map setting set to average (cities, dwellings, roads, roamers, all of it)

    these are the settings i play on regardless of player count, so this would be the case for a ffa as well

    #225536

    NINJEW
    Member

    also no one is going to play playing under settler spam meta

    #225537

    Ericridge
    Member

    Attacking frostling nodes to open up Yeti production is one of more effective ways to deal with shadowstalkers as a necromancer.

    Because..

    Ghouled Yetis = 100% Frost resistance.
    And Yetis come with Regeneration.

    #225545

    Gloweye
    Member

    And Yetis come with Regeneration.

    Well, this won’t work on Undeads, but they’re still a pretty good match against stalkers. They’re dealing almost as much damage as they take here.

    However, not reliable, though I’ll most likely use it if I get my hands on it without trouble.

    #225590

    Hiliadan
    Member

    The proof of Draconian Necro power: http://www.the-battlefield.com/aow3/index.php?page=resultinfo&gamenumber=31
    (for those who do not open the link: Brutal_Felix lost and was 3rd playing his favourite class/race against 3 opponents)

    I first read the guide with interest, then while reading it, I thought it was a bit pretentious. Reading your latest exchanges with Ninjew and other people on this thread, I’m pretty amazed by your awful behaviour. So I assume your guide is quite bad….

    #225594

    Sir Toine
    Member

    I was gonna make the same exact comment as hiliadan
    don’t go out public with a guide if you can’t take any objections or if you answer agressively when people disagree with you.
    you shouldn’t bother writing another one.

    #225595

    NINJEW
    Member

    in the interests of fairness, i will note that drawing conclusions off of the outcome of a single match is a little premature, though those are some interesting results.

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