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Gloweye 6 years, 8 months ago.
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Of course, you’re right Ninjew. I was joking when I wrote this but it was funny to see the result of this match just after the start of this thread and the debate on the interest of races such as Goblins, Frostlings or Halflings compared to Draconians, and the supposed strengths of Draconian Necro.
And behind 2 Dreads…Guess he should have build more racial supports, since those are such awesome counters.
Just so you all know, mine is bigger.
Anyhow guys, why are you fighting? You are both texans, you’all should be friends or at least do high noon style proper.
It seems to me that this could easily be checked empirically @ninjew – you have previously tried to empirically check stuff, so do the deed, get off the high horse and check if Brutal is correct in his assertions, tentatively I think he has some merits in what he is saying – I have seen Abed playing this Draconian Necro live twice to very good effect and I must say he used these strategies exactly as depicted in the guide and in the discussion here by brutal, and no offense intended here, but he is a superior player period and the record shows it.
Banshees can be summoned, so that is dual channel, reanimators have the advantage of being both undead and ranged supports, not requiring techs to unlock other abilities, can be leveled quickly – get extra stuff from racials, and can cascade quickly – you guys, at least the MP parts of the discussion know the importance of early game optimization, frostlings require to many moving elements to get into play, ice queens are too difficult to get moving, white witches will be effective only after turn 30+, and the other units as well. Necro is very weak production wise really, you are going with reanimators and summons for the first 20 turns, that’s what I experienced in MP – OFC my experience here is very limited, and I mostly tried my luck in PBEM, where to my experience Necro does well with frostlings, but that is a very different ballgame altogether cuz’ you manual so you get all these nice little synergies working.
i mean i already said that i’d be trying it out in a game, and have specifically been asking about how applicable the guide is to the kind of settings i’d play under.
anyways as a city’un i’m not terribly inclined for an old fashioned saloon shootout, though i’m sure if it’s a matter of settling dick measuring sizes i’d gladly accept a bbq eating contest: i’d lose, but at least i’d get some delicious bbq out of it (beef ribs or bust)
Wut? I was talking about my pistol…. lol. I am a Georg Grosz painting can’t you see?
No one is even saying Draconian Necromancers are bad, (They’re not!) just that there are other viable options.
I don’t see the insistence on “trying it out” either, as massing Reanimators+Banshees is the basic Necromancer noob strat that everyone rolls with until they’re comfortable enough to branch out into using other units.
frostlings require to many moving elements to get into play, ice queens are too difficult to get moving, white witches will be effective only after turn 30+, and the other units as well.
wait, why aren’t white witches immediately effective (and especially so after healers of the dead)? As long as you have some raiders with vampiric hunger you’re pretty set.
Healers of the dead is 400 RP, its mid-game tech.
Vampiric Hunger is 240 RP, also mid-game tech.
Frostlings require a bunch of expensive techs to be impressive, thats the issue, draconians don’t they come out of the shelf and you don’t need any sort of techs to unlock them.
As for a healing t3, why on earth would you want your t3 to be a healer? you want your t3 to be a mean motha fucker, and flying. The biggest problem for Necro class wise is that half of its class units are walking and half are incorporeal floaters, if you are able to supplement the incorporeals with flying units you can get ultra mobile stacks, thats a distinct advantage in pvp – no way around it in my book.
I would grant though a double life stealing pike, thats nice, but thats about it –
a regrowth capable flying t1 pike is simply better sounding, sorry – it even doesn’t need its own fucking healers.Good discussion, though could be better without all the vitriol! Lots of ideas for me to try out, since I am still getting the hang of Necromancer.
Another question to throw out there in terms of balance…I think necromancer is severely hampered by a settler start relative to other classes because of all the time spent in buildings that are for city growth. The larger the city start, the better balance looks for necromancer. Agree?
Yes, also necros do very badly is terms of city spamming.
And Yetis come with Regeneration.
Well, this won’t work on Undeads, but they’re still a pretty good match against stalkers. They’re dealing almost as much damage as they take here.
However, not reliable, though I’ll most likely use it if I get my hands on it without trouble.
They lost the regeneration trait recently? Because I kinda remember using yetis to overcome the rogue in campaign on first mission.
And Yetis come with Regeneration.
Well, this won’t work on Undeads, but they’re still a pretty good match against stalkers. They’re dealing almost as much damage as they take here.
However, not reliable, though I’ll most likely use it if I get my hands on it without trouble.
They lost the regeneration trait recently? Because I kinda remember using yetis to overcome the rogue in campaign on first mission.
No, they still have it, but it doesn’t work on Undead units. I used them there to – pretty useful to just take the stalker’s hits.
The proof of Draconian Necro power: http://www.the-battlefield.com/aow3/index.php?page=resultinfo&gamenumber=31
(for those who do not open the link: Brutal_Felix lost and was 3rd playing his favourite class/race against 3 opponents)I first read the guide with interest, then while reading it, I thought it was a bit pretentious. Reading your latest exchanges with Ninjew and other people on this thread, I’m pretty amazed by your awful behaviour. So I assume your guide is quite bad….
i surrendered after killing techno, you can take that up with cast and nolime if you want, after killing techno me and cast clashed and basically killed each other ( my fault really i had caught his main stack but could only get one of my main stacks to him in time and had horrible losses in a misjudge by me) after that nolime had been undisturbed all game and wiped cast shorthly after i surrendered. i also never use that site, the only one that wanted it was techno, and i thought it funny after he got knocked out in the first 20 turns lol
Well, you should consider using it more often, it provides stats that could be interesting for the community, especially if most of the matches played were reported there: http://www.the-battlefield.com/aow3/index.php?page=ladderstats
Currently, Necro has not been played much, partly because it has been available for a shorter time (since Eternal Lords). Maybe partly also because it’s not that competitive in multiplayer with the settings mainly used by the MP community?
Well, you should consider using it more often, it provides stats that could be interesting for the community, especially if most of the matches played were reported there: http://www.the-battlefield.com/aow3/index.php?page=ladderstats
Currently, Necro has not been played much, partly because it has been available for a shorter time (since Eternal Lords). Maybe partly also because it’s not that competitive in multiplayer with the settings mainly used by the MP community?
I agree on all points — First time this thread! lol. With that said I’ll make more of an effort to upload game data, I’ve been taking screenshots of the score at end game, but it doesnt show alot of info. I believe Necromancer to be one of the most competitive Classes when played properly. And that’s the biggest thing, people latch onto Frostling/Halfling as the best Races and the Class sees no play.. If those Races are so good why do they see no play? 😉
I´ve been using brutal strat guide for a while and the least I can say is, that it greatly improved my playing and my chances to be a stronger opponent in the games.
I don’t think any perfect guide how to play a class/race combo automatically leads to being invincible (which btw is why the game is so great). So of course there are good/bad starting positions, other players that have their own “perfect” strats like in the mentioned game with techno which didn’t go in brutal favor at all 😉But I tried Necros before reading the guide and had basically no chance against other players, now Im really having fun with them. I would say Tigran necros are similarly good in using necros but overall I do think Draco/Necro make a very good combination!
I would love to see similar strat guides for other race/class combos. Are there any out there.
Debatable or not, Brutal made a great job with his guide!Yes, +10 to brutal for putting the effort and writing a guide.
Well, you should consider using it more often, it provides stats that could be interesting for the community, especially if most of the matches played were reported there: http://www.the-battlefield.com/aow3/index.php?page=ladderstats
Currently, Necro has not been played much, partly because it has been available for a shorter time (since Eternal Lords). Maybe partly also because it’s not that competitive in multiplayer with the settings mainly used by the MP community?
I agree on all points — First time this thread! lol. With that said I’ll make more of an effort to upload game data, I’ve been taking screenshots of the score at end game, but it doesnt show alot of info. I believe Necromancer to be one of the most competitive Classes when played properly. And that’s the biggest thing, people latch onto Frostling/Halfling as the best Races and the Class sees no play.. If those Races are so good why do they see no play? 😉
Two things. One is that the current meta is already counter necro in strength, so when fighting from behind in strategic terms the simplest good strategy is usually the best. And yours is a good strategy (which no one has denied), so it fits the current meta (but meta is not the same as total viability). If what you are saying was true overall, the necro would be a very poorly designed class.
The second is a self fulfilling prophecy. As the good players went through and found this strategy (which was predicted by all in principle because of the removal of fire weakness and presence of fire damage), its simplicity meant that it was more likely to work the first time vs other ones, which were more likely to fail (more complicated). Then necro players focused their time on perfecting the Draco strategy more and more, thus exacerbating the difference further for other combinations that were less practised. I’m sure that frostling and halfling have equally viable bits that have been less developed.
Problem solved.
Hmmm… Tentatively it seems to me that Halfling Necro will be horrible in MP, its a shame AbedNego seems to be in some sort of RL situation or else I’d be able to consult a real Halfling expert, but it seems to me that the combination of -20% physical resistance with the early weakness of ghouls will be horrible with autocombat. I’ll give it a try to see.
Edit: I tried a few starts – it seems to me to really depend on what you start with, if you manage to start of with a brew brother, or even two of them, you in effect start with triple or even quadruple heal for a Necro, which is huge. This is fairly random though. Aside from this I don’t think there is anyway in which this could compete with what Draconians bring in MP to your ability to hit the ground running.
Strike that
Hmmm… Tentatively it seems to me that Halfling Necro will be horrible in MP, its a shame AbedNego seems to be in some sort of RL situation or else I’d be able to consult a real Halfling expert, but it seems to me that the combination of -20% physical resistance with the early weakness of ghouls will be horrible with autocombat. I’ll give it a try to see.
Edit: I tried a few starts – it seems to me to really depend on what you start with, if you manage to start of with a brew brother, or even two of them, you in effect start with triple or even quadruple heal for a Necro, which is huge. This is fairly random though. Aside from this I don’t think there is anyway in which this could compete with what Draconians bring in MP to your ability to hit the ground running.
I think manual combat is neccesary to have a good start with halfling necro. I’ts pretty doable in SP/PBEM. However, I’m having no issue at all believing AC will murder your halflings. Even with Manual I often summon my first Soul in my main stack to help with clearing – undying is huge.
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