Introducing the Sorcerer class

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Introducing the Sorcerer class

This topic contains 53 replies, has 31 voices, and was last updated by  davis14 8 years, 3 months ago.

Viewing 24 posts - 31 through 54 (of 54 total)
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  • #14335

    Zhukodim
    Member

    3). Static shield: I think that the two turn thing won’t be too problematic, as long as the stun chance is set at the right level.

    Two rounds guys, 2 rounds. This is one turn as before.

    #14340

    phillon
    Member

    Loved the screenshots and the class sounds very cool (I love playing magic users). The screens just awe me every time. You guys are especially nailing the over-world view aesthetic brilliantly; keeping it looking like that wonderful distinctive AoW look, whilst updating the visuals with 3D terrain and lighting. The battle screens, unit models, spell effects, etc. all look wonderfully done as well. Keep up the great work! Can’t wait for the game, but DON’T rush it, put it out when it’s ready. AoW deserves that.

    #14344

    Arnout
    Keymaster

    @darkcobra1990 Yes the Sorcerer lighting/shock damage themed.

    Yes you buff your cities with spells or debuff (curse) enemy cities. All classes have a few of these types of spells. The Theocrat has Denounce City as city ‘debuff’ for example

    @zhukodim Static Shield is indeed a powerful spell with 2 turns stun. Perhaps its needs to be 1 round after proper balancing. Depends on a lot of factors

    #14356

    Draxynnic
    Member

    That is an interesting observation. Can we presume that this means that the air and water spheres are purely air and water effects, with lightning/shock/electricity being reserved for class spells rather than mixed between air and water as before?

    @jeanlucpicard: I don’t think I agree with the Sorcerer being dark. The Horror could simply be another example of a creature native to realms of magic without necessarily being evil per se. Dread Omen is darker, but that’s just one spell – the full range may turn out to have a mix of spells with light and dark effects.

    @waldo the Walrus: Sure, a sorcerer may choose to focus a city’s production on increasing mana income to pay for those summoned creatures instead of building units directly, but unless AoW3 has a means of converting gold to mana such as trading or the alchemy system in Master of Magic, it’s likely that at some stage a sorcerer is going to want to build a portion of their army utilising the gold economy rather than the mana economy.

    I also expect summoned creatures will also have a bottleneck in the rate at which the sorcerer can summon them – in some stages of the game being able to generate units without directly using city production may be a significant advantage, but in a lategame situation where surviving players have lots of cities, the sorcerer may be in a situation where they can only summon creatures maybe twice or three times as quickly as before while other classes have greatly expanded their unit production rate through the number of developed cities available (think about the hard cap on the rate at which you could produce gold dragons in AoW2, while with enough gold and fully developed draconian cities, you could be producing multiple red dragons per turn). In such a situation, the sorcerer would probably be pushed to recruit racial units to bulk out their forces.

    #14365

    I don’t think I agree with the Sorcerer being dark. The Horror could simply be another example of a creature native to realms of magic without necessarily being evil per se. Dread Omen is darker, but that’s just one spell – the full range may turn out to have a mix of spells with light and dark effects.

    I think I disagree: summoning a horror is a rather evil deed in my opinion. Also the Chaos Rift seems rather evil; as it allows anomalies to enter into the world. I have some trouble imagining playing a Good Sorcerer and then doing the things above, esp. considering that good&evil are now based on your actions. (the spells themselves are cool though)

    #14366

    I was just making an observation that Sorc has some pretty “dark stuff”, we already know alignment isn’t pre-set. I’m sure eldritch horrors, dread omens and chaos rifts can be used for good. 😛

    It’d be neat if the Rift summoned shadow deamons, from time to time at least.

    #14368

    NuMetal
    Member

    It’d be neat if the Rift summoned shadow deamons, from time to time at least.

    +1 That’d be really great! So much style… 🙂

    #14370

    Draxynnic
    Member

    I think I disagree: summoning a horror is a rather evil deed in my opinion. Also the Chaos Rift seems rather evil; as it allows anomalies to enter into the world. I have some trouble imagining playing a Good Sorcerer and then doing the things above, esp. considering that good&evil are now based on your actions. (the spells themselves are cool though)

    Not necessarily. So far, all we know about the Horror is that it looks horrifying – we don’t know anything about its actual mindset. It may not be any more malicious than any other predator, it just comes from the chaos plane.

    Similarly, the “anomalies” of the chaos rift… are things from the chaos rift inherently evil? Chaotic, yes, but Chaotic Good is also a thing. The mechanics talk about dealing damage and summoning creatures – the creatures are probably the same that sorcerers can normally summon, and there’s nothing inherently evil-seeming about wisps, node serpents, or phantasm warriors.

    One could even regard Dread Omen as simply a large-scale illusion that inspires fear – something that isn’t exactly nice, but if not channeling energy from Hell or something else equally inherently evil. Essentially, one person’s “causing undue mental distress to a civilian populace” here is another’s “better to spread a little fear if it leads to less death and mayhem in the long run.”

    (It could also be yet another’s “for the evulz”, but the general gist is that it seems to be inherently neutral rather than on the darker side of the line.)

    #14377

    Gyor
    Member

    The Eldrich horror isn’t evil in the sense of Mawhahaha evil, more so Alien that the mortal minds can’t fully fathom it , its madding it may not even be fully aware of our reality, its actions reflexive.

    Its lovecraftian.

    As to evil, many if that all classes I think have a light and dark side to them.,

    #14509

    nyarlathotep
    Member

    An other Yay!!! for the Eldritch Horror… I do like a bit of Lovecraft in my games 🙂

    #14512

    Draxynnic
    Member

    The Eldrich horror isn’t evil in the sense of Mawhahaha evil, more so Alien that the mortal minds can’t fully fathom it , its madding it may not even be fully aware of our reality, its actions reflexive.

    Its lovecraftian.

    Pretty much. Summoned and guided by a sorcerer, there’s no reason to think it’s any more evil than any other summon. (Now, whether summoning anything to fight in your war is moral is another question entirely…)

    #14566

    Zozma
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Draxynnic wrote:</div>

    I think I disagree: summoning a horror is a rather evil deed in my opinion. Also the Chaos Rift seems rather evil; as it allows anomalies to enter into the world. I have some trouble imagining playing a Good Sorcerer and then doing the things above, esp. considering that good&evil are now based on your actions. (the spells themselves are cool though)

    Summoning a thunderstorm to wreak havoc on an innocent Halfling hamlet is pretty evil. Do the same thing to an invading army of shadow demons and suddenly the moral implications become decidedly different. Unless summoning a horror requires a blood sacrifice or damages the fabric of reality, it’s just another tool in the arsenal of a sorcerer. And like any tool its function is innately neutral while its actual use carries moral weight depending on the outcome and the intent of the user.

    #14583

    AwesomeLion
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>nvc_for_the_soul wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Draxynnic wrote:</div>

    I think I disagree: summoning a horror is a rather evil deed in my opinion. Also the Chaos Rift seems rather evil; as it allows anomalies to enter into the world. I have some trouble imagining playing a Good Sorcerer and then doing the things above, esp. considering that good&evil are now based on your actions. (the spells themselves are cool though)

    Summoning a thunderstorm to wreak havoc on an innocent Halfling hamlet is pretty evil. Do the same thing to an invading army of shadow demons and suddenly the moral implications become decidedly different. Unless summoning a horror requires a blood sacrifice or damages the fabric of reality, it’s just another tool in the arsenal of a sorcerer. And like any tool its function is innately neutral while its actual use carries moral weight depending on the outcome and the intent of the user.

    Makes me think of religions and their reasoning XD

    …I’m an atheist =p

    On topic: I agree, I don’t see the summoning of the Eldritch Horror as an innate evil act. Sure it might look outer wordly, but that doesn’t make it anymore evil then a fire elemental

    #14593

    I wonder if it is possible to lose control of a summoning.

    I’m guessing that for gameplay reasons it won’t be, but that would make an awesome story.

    #14596

    Hijallo
    Member

    There could be spells which wrestle control from units, like Seduce or Convert. Not sure would it work on Eldritch Horror, tho ^.

    #14611

    Makes me think of religions and their reasoning XD

    On topic: I agree, I don’t see the summoning of the Eldritch Horror as an innate evil act. Sure it might look outer wordly, but that doesn’t make it anymore evil then a fire elemental

    As with religion it is sometimes difficult to understand the other. I try but when I read the unit description again, it still feels not right to summon a horror as a good sorcerer. I respect other opinions though.

    Unit description of Eldritch Horror:
    It writhed like the scream caught in my throat. Teeth. Eyes. The smell of blood, fear and something exiled by nature to the forgotten depths. Oh, Eldritch Horror! The mind slides off thee like slime on a fish, an absurdity. What dark age do we beckon, that a mind could conceive of such a force of destruction, allow it to continue breaking walls, piercing flesh with barbs? Even here in the asylum, I cannot hide from the memory of it.

    On the topic of seduce: I hope that ability returns in AOW3. It is really fun to do.

    #14614

    Tomipapa
    Member

    The different kind of mind control abilities(seduce, convert, dominate ect.) will be in the game.

    #14616

    I didn’t mean lose control to another wizard, I meant something a bit more complex, like having to pass a ‘will’ check every turn, and if you fail it, your summons disappears or goes wild.

    I mean, you are using magic to drag this thing away from its world into our world (as in AoW…) and I doubt it is very willing most of the time.

    Demons and Undead might be very happy to be summoned though…

    #14674

    Zozma
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>AwesomeLion wrote:</div>
    Makes me think of religions and their reasoning XD<br>
    …<br>
    On topic: I agree, I don’t see the summoning of the Eldritch Horror as an innate evil act. Sure it might look outer wordly, but that doesn’t make it anymore evil then a fire elemental

    As with religion it is sometimes difficult to understand the other. I try but when I read the unit description again, it still feels not right to summon a horror as a good sorcerer. I respect other opinions though.

    Unit description of Eldritch Horror:<br>
    It writhed like the scream caught in my throat. Teeth. Eyes. The smell of blood, fear and something exiled by nature to the forgotten depths. Oh, Eldritch Horror! The mind slides off thee like slime on a fish, an absurdity. What dark age do we beckon, that a mind could conceive of such a force of destruction, allow it to continue breaking walls, piercing flesh with barbs? Even here in the asylum, I cannot hide from the memory of it.

    Just because it’s scary and menacing doesn’t mean it’s evil. And even if it is evil, is summoning something that’s evil and making it do good things evil? If a warlock in some generic fantasy universe summons an archdevil and binds it to read to orphans and plant poseys, did that warlock commit a sin?

    I mean, beyond the obvious sin of enslaving a living, sentient thing ;P.

    #15127

    I didn’t mean lose control to another wizard, I meant something a bit more complex, like having to pass a ‘will’ check every turn, and if you fail it, your summons disappears or goes wild.

    I think this can be cool, but then I also want to see a units’ ability to bind the summons. Then, when you have a party with summons AND a unit with the bind ability, the summons never go wild. If such a unit is not there, then there is a chance that the summon goes wild i.e. become independent bersekers. This provides some nice battle opportunities. Also it feels risky to have a party with summons. On the down-side, a party with only 1 summon would probably be rare.

    And even if it is evil, is summoning something that’s evil and making it do good things evil?

    That sounds like fighting evil with evil. Imo that is in general not a good thing.

    If a warlock in some generic fantasy universe summons an archdevil and binds it to read to orphans and plant poseys, did that warlock commit a sin?

    I guess not, but then I don’t see the horror do that in the AOW-universe 🙂

    The different kind of mind control abilities(seduce, convert, dominate ect.) will be in the game.

    Thanks for the answer!

    #15490

    Zozma
    Member

    That sounds like fighting evil with evil. Imo that is in general not a good thing.

    Fighting evil with evil is sort of the entire idea of a “just war,” no? If you allow that a character can be considered good in spite of imperialism, militarism, and slaughter, what difference does it make if some of the killing is done by a monster instead of soldiers?

    I guess not, but then I don’t see the horror do that in the AOW-universe :)

    Ha ha, granted. 🙂

    #15635

    Draxynnic
    Member

    Whether summoning evil beings to fight evil is itself an evil act depends on the setting. There are some settings where simply having beings of supernatural evil (such as demons or undead) in the world is inherently corrupting the world and increasing the power of evil in it, even if they are being forced to do good acts.

    Now, in AoW, it does seem as if evil powers can be used to do good – the use of undead by Merlin and Meandor in AoW2 and SM, for instance. Even there, though, one would have to consider if, say, the use of a Dread Reaper is justified, or whether whatever battlefield advantage it brings is worth the trail of ecological devastation and death that it leaves in its wake.

    In this context, summoning the Horror could be evil, if doing so means its presence starts to warp the world around it, attracts the attention of bigger Lovecraftian nasties that might be inclined to invade, or otherwise puts the world at greater risk simply through its presence. Otherwise, though, it’s just like any other summon.

    #16384

    Tanchiro
    Member

    The numbers representing the number of units in a stack seem too small. I hope I won’t have to strain my eyes or zoom in to see them.

    #25841

    davis14
    Member

    if phantasm warrior are not a summon unit you could there appearance change based on race so like an orc phantasm warrior armor would look more barbaric and have a more bulky look

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