[Linux/Mac] No GOG support

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions [Linux/Mac] No GOG support

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This topic contains 64 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  Sorax 6 years ago.

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  • #187453

    Brandon_354
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Stormwind wrote:</div>
    I would really like to see you explain this more, because frankly I dont get it.<br>
    I’m not trying to start a fight, I just see this type of visceral angry reaction and I have never understood it.

    I have lot of things to tell about this…<br>
    (sorry if some wording are not clear, english is not my main language and a have to go and see some google translation when i write long messages on this forum)

    – When i was young i experienced a protection on a game i had bought that completly prevent me to play (it doesn’t load), causing a great deception because this was i game i was waiting for a long time.

    When i was student i was near a “pirate group”.<br>
    I copied lot of game, but all of them there was no loss for dev because i had no money to buy all these game; and lot of them i just test and drop them.<br>
    Just to do this about “piracy” : “Money loss” is mainly an illusion.<br>
    This is not because someone “illegal copy” that it is a “seeling loss”.<br>
    This is completly different.

    Since i’m “adult”:<br>
    – I know that DRM can ruin a game.<br>
    – I know that DRM can reduce computer performance (some DRM make game lagging… i ever see 30% of computer performance loss because of DRM)<br>
    – I already see protection breaking something on a system, and even a hardware (this was lot of years ago)<br>
    – I know that DRM are useless: they protect nothing because if you want to “pirate” this is easy (and no risked : If you afraid about a .exe downloaded from internet, just play on a computer you don’t care, or on a virtual machine).<br>
    – DRM only trouble “legal user” (you cannot used your game when you change hardware, when you have no internet, when the licence server is out, if the game publisher decide stop its server, when you want to reinstall a game several years later because server licence does not still exist….).<br>
    I think that some DRM are so idiot that they make legal user to become “true pirate”.<br>
    – When i buy a game, i want to used it like i want. I don’t accept artificials constraints.<br>
    (For your question : “what are you doing ?” : Response is “Nothing special” – but i have a laptop who have a poor internet connexion (sometime he has no connexion depending where i was; plus a problem of hard disk that can block when i connect to internet (this problem seems to be fixe now, but i’m not sure). I don’t want – No : I refuse – to be unabled to play “my game” because of this and stupid DRM)<br>
    – I think that a game publisher that add exessive protection on its product do not respect its customers. Respect must be from both side (for me it is: I respect who respect me). Treat customers like enemies is a big error (i thing that people become what you thing they are and how you treat them).<br>
    These publisher, for me it’s simple : i don’t want their product – even by “piracy” – even if the game is good – (but i know : i’m “stubborn as a mule” (google translate is ok here ?)).

    – And this : “Piracy” is not the enemy of dev or seeler. You can consider this like “friend” because a good game (or film, or music) is both “pirated” and sold. “piracy” and “legal seeling” boost each other.<br>
    You can consider “piracy” like a publicity (and also bad game-film-music have no commercial success, and have no “piracy” success): Each of them works together.<br>
    The economical model for this is perhaps to be formalized, but my personnal experience tell me that i write here is right (and some economical studies tend to be agree with this).

    This is hard to explain. To illustrate this i can tell you i discovered AoW with an “illegal copy” (AoW-SW), and buyed it some mounth ago, play a lot whith a friend, mod it (that is a part of a success of a game), and when AoW3 was coming i bought it and all DLC without delay; and in a future i’ll buy an other one to offert this game to someone who has played AoW-SM with me a lot)

    I also see this processus some year ago when i organize some LAN (other games). A new player come but he has no game ? We copy a game for him. After this, some of them keep playing the game, perhaps buy extentions, perhaps later buy the version “2″…. if they don’t, where is the loss for publisher and dev ? these was no loss because if copy was not done this gut simply never play and experienced the game.

    “Piracy” is a part of the “legal” economic system.<br>
    This economic system is based on mass distribution, and this is that way “dev can eat”.<br>
    I’m sure that in the future this system will be mathematically explained.

    I’m sure i forgot to write lot of thing… but perhaps it’s enought for a response :D

    Piracy a devs’s friend?

    Dev’s dont respect you because they don’t allow you to pirate it?

    DRM causing massive lag?

    Your entire post was trollish nonsense, but if by some chance you are serious you clearly didn’t read our posts that explained that steam allows offline play and that the only “constraint” that Steam’s/Triumph DRM places is the inability to easily pirate, also if your friends are the one who “explained” how drm and piracy work to you I would take everything they say with a grain of salt from now on, or if it was your own research i’d advise not publishing it as it would be debunked in no time.

    #206844

    hatifnat
    Member

    My problem is the bad communication on Triumphs side. They should told us that there is no GOG Linux/Mac version as soon as possible. Lennert Sas told us why there is no Linux-GOG version and this is a totally understandable argument. But the should have informed their customers. Because then we as a customer would be able to make a solid decision where to buy there game and unsatisfied customers would be avoided.

    +1
    Please finally acknowledge on the main page the fact, that Linux/Mac version is currently Steam-exclusive. Believe me, it can be really frustrating if you need to dig through forum to learn that.:(

    GOG Galaxy open-beta has been launched a few weeks ago. Is there a chance to finally get ETA for Mac/Linux GOG version or just a confirmation it will not be released at all?

    #206946

    Agree 100% here. I just got finished installing Linux specifically to install AoW3 only to find out there was no Linux installer for my GoG account. I had to do some Google searching to discover this thread to figure this out.

    Triumph really dropped the ball on communicating this. Could you provide us a Steam Key if we purchased on GoG so that we can install through Steam?

    I really hate to have to use Steam, but if it’s the only way I’ll get to use AoW3 on Linux, I’ll consider it.

    #206949

    Straw man attacks and ad-hominems help no one. Please Google “logical fallacies” and educate yourself before you engage in forum discussions.

    “Piracy a devs’s friend?”
    — Straw Man. That wasn’t claimed anywhere and it’s an incredibly illogical assertion. Piracy is not a dev’s friend. The assertion is that DRM hurts paying customers and fails to block pirates.

    “Dev’s dont respect you because they don’t allow you to pirate it?”
    — Also straw man. Never claimed. Devs/publishers often don’t respect the minority of people who have issues with the DRM inhibiting their ability to play. People who pirate the software don’t have these issues, so why should paying customers?

    “DRM causing massive lag?”
    — DRM definitely can cause 1) system performance degradation, 2) show-stopping bugs, and 3) system failures. Google Sony Rootkit and read up on other DRM problems people have experienced. Steam DRM may work most of the time but it does cause problems for some people. Your not being one of them doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

    “Your entire post was trollish nonsense…”
    — Really unnecessary ad-hominem attack, as is the rest of this paragraph.

    The benefits of GoG go far beyond DRM-free.

    * Steam is a walled garden ecosystem a la Apple and treats its customers with disdain. Google “user banned steam forums” and look at all the people banned just for expressing frustration with Steam’s policies, DRM, etc. “Our way or the highway” is the unofficial Steam motto.
    * Your behaviors are tracked for marketing and monetization purposes. You have no ability to disable this. On GoG regular or Galaxy you can enable or disable this as you please.
    * On Steam, you cannot rollback to earlier builds just because you liked the game better or because it no longer works on your system. On GoG you get each installer individually which you can install or not, your choice.
    * Steam forces you to install to Steam folders, which breaks many older games’ ability to work with mods and also causes problems with multi-drive systems.

    Basically the bottom line is Steam tries to simplify and control your experience at the expense of freedom. GoG gives you the freedom to do what you like with the files and has better support for older games and mods. If the Steam model works for you, great, but that doesn’t mean you have to disparage GoG or those of us who don’t want to participate with Steam.

    As for whether or not a game is available in 30 years, let’s say 10 or 20. I still play and love Master of Magic, released in 1994. I have a Gauntlet stand-up original Atari arcade game that turned 30 this year. If either one had been built with DRM that required me to log-in every 6 months to a server, both would be useless right now, because those companies are defunct. Atari the publisher is a different incarnation from Atari the games manufacturer of the 80’s.

    As a recent example, people who purchased Command and Conquer III for PC from EA can no longer use their software because it requires a DRM system pre-Origin. Legacy DRM systems will get retired and games dependent on them will become useless for most people.

    It may seem unlikely now, but what happens to your games library if Steam goes out of business?

    #245524

    jake21
    Member

    I’m confused by the below statement. If you depend on the shared libraries provided with steam SDK; as long as they are standard system library or GPL libraries you can copy and distribute them with the gog version. Is that the basis of your comment ?


    @desmondvang We hear you, the situation is not ideal. But let me explain – the costs of making a Linux build available DRM free is much higher than doing this via Steam for us. This is because we do not have the Steam Linux SDK to rely on, which contains standardized system DLLs. Without these we have a massive job in additional code, licensing, quality assurance and support. The full magnitude of these costs became clear later on in the porting process.

    Then there is the added cost of maintaining and distributing the frequently updated DRM free builds along with the expansions.

    The costs would be totally out of whack compared to the # of users

    #245525

    jake21
    Member

    btw steam in itself is not a DRM. There are many games where I can and have copied the binary and run the game on another machine without steam. In fact in the cases where I have done this the developers themselves told me to do this as their games had no drm.

    I do not know this is the case with AOW3 as my copy is on gog. I am somewhat pissed to discover that gog version does not support linux and perplex by the reason since they can standardize the libs to be the same on both platforms.

    I could understand that if this is a very small studio without linux expertise they might not have the necessary knowledge to understand how to package things and setup LD_LIBRARY_PATH and similar to make things work in a uniform fashion.

    #245526

    Gloweye
    Member

    If you depend on the shared libraries provided with steam SDK; as long as they are standard system library or GPL libraries you can copy and distribute them with the gog version.

    They’re provided by, and copyrighted by, steam. So no, they don’t have public (or GPL-like) licenses – instead being licensed only to games which require steam. I. E., not the GOG version.

    I am somewhat pissed to discover that gog version does not support linux and perplex by the reason since they can standardize the libs to be the same on both platforms.

    Well, they just explained they can’t.

    #245527

    jake21
    Member

    steam can’t copyright .so of gpl libs. They can only copyright their added code. If you go to your steam library on linux you will see a lot of .so files (shared library) which are just standard system libs but of a specific version. Those files can be freely copied.

    #245528

    Gloweye
    Member

    Yeah, well, from the dev posts above I read that the “added code” is sufficiently important that they can’t just Ctrl + C / Ctrl + V the stuff over to GoG. It’s completely irrelevant that there’s large chunks that can be copied, as long as there’s stuff that cannot be copied.

    #245529

    jake21
    Member

    Lets here what the devs have to say and not make assumptions. The premise of your assumption in itself would be worrisome for long term maintaining of the code (both windows and steam).

    #245531

    Gloweye
    Member

    Well, they said this:

    his is because we do not have the Steam Linux SDK to rely on, which contains standardized system DLLs. Without these we have a massive job in additional code, licensing, quality assurance and support.

    I’m not making assumptions, just restating. Asking the same question again a second time isn’t gonna have a different answer just because you didn’t like the first answer you got.

    #245542

    jake21
    Member

    Have you ever used linux Gloweye or do you like being a parrot ?

    #245544

    jake21
    Member

    Since you like to just repeat non-sense I have included a link to the license which allows full usage of this software as you see fit:
    https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-runtime/blob/master/COPYING

    It is my understanding from the wording in that license that the software could be written with that api and then distributed via gog if triumph chose to do such.

    #245548

    Have you ever used linux Gloweye or do you like being a parrot ?

    how about you stick it right up your ass? you want conformation and he gave you some.

    its really easy punk, they don’t want to spent their time on some niche market with about a few hundred users. Take it like a real dude and use the steam version for crying out loud. its a company and they have to make money, they will lose money if they have to do this kind of bullshit for a small group of stubborn asses.

    #245550

    I love tho that when its free there is not a single problem

    I’ll give this a try:

    http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197971291772/

    steam profile: amud

    (I wonder how steam decides who has a number and who has a name in the link)

    http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/giving-away-3-copies-of-the-game/page/8/#post-41548

    #245570

    jake21
    Member

    nice that you have to create a new profile just to formulate a nasty reply full of FUD. Anyways some fact to address your FUD:

    I did not get the game for free; I do not have the game on steam; there are more than 100 people who play this game and would play this game on linux. About the only thing you said with a grain of truth is that the developer might not consider it feasible from a business sense. However, that is not for you to decide.

    • This reply was modified 6 years ago by  jake21.
    #245571

    How about you add me on steam and we talk a bit there.

    http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198199364822

    Nobody insult my friend

    #245572

    Gloweye
    Member

    ..new profile? Da fuq you talking about?

    I did play a MP game with her. But this is my profile:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/gloweye/
    (btw, you can assign yourself a name in your profile settings). You don’t think I bought the game twice, right ? Just to spite you?

    #245574

    I did not get the game for free; I do not have the game on steam

    Its hard to read punk? You aplied for a free coppy for steam, so you didnt have a problem with the DRM then. I never said you didnt buy it. Also the amount of games in your steamlist shows me that your not that big of an steam hater.

    there are more than 100 people who play this game and would play this game on linux

    But there are when you include your knitpick facts that you dont want it from steam for some bullshit reason. So a niche market.

    consider it feasible from a business sense. However, that is not for you to decide.

    Lets say 100 people buy this (i dont even think that amount will) then they make 2500 euro (because cheapskates wont pay the full price). That wont even get close to the development cost.

    We can do this the whole day if you want punk. Or you add me and gloweye and we duke this out in private

    #245576

    jake21
    Member

    Crise you are changing the topic. I purchased the game years ago on gog. The issue isn’t steam vs gog. It is linux on gog. I run linux. I would prefer to play the game on linux. Therefore I would appreciate it if the game becomes available on linux on the platform where I own the game. If I had known they were going to release it (for linux) on steam but not gog I might have purchased it on steam instead of gog but since I have it on gog I have no intention of buying a second copy. I never claimed to be a steam hater. I will say that in general I prefer gog when possible but I do use steam and in a few cases even origin and i have a few free games on uplay (which I generally advise folks to avoid).

    #245579

    Crise you are changing the topic. I purchased the game years ago on gog. The issue isn’t steam vs gog. It is linux on gog. I run linux. I would prefer to play the game on linux. Therefore I would appreciate it if the game becomes available on linux on the platform where I own the game. If I had known they were going to release it (for linux) on steam but not gog I might have purchased it on steam instead of gog but since I have it on gog I have no intention of buying a second copy. I never claimed to be a steam hater. I will say that in general I prefer gog when possible but I do use steam and in a few cases even origin and i have a few free games on uplay (which I generally advise folks to avoid).

    Your lack of reading skills starting to get tiring, let me make it easy for you so you can understand.

    > you want developers to spent a shitload of time to fix a minor inconvenience for you
    > Most people don’t want that, its a minor inconvenience that you could easily fix yourself, there are just a few people using Linux in combination with gog that has this problem so a niche market with your exact problem
    > Because you want this to be fixed you are being a dick about it, nobody like people being dicks.

    is this clear? if you really have a big issue buying the game again you wait for a steam sale, or a humble bundle or go to some shady site where you buy it for a few euro’s. but don’t except the devs to go trough all this trouble and spent a shitload of money to just relief you of your inconvenience. some people jeez.

    #245580

    number time,

    official stats show that there are 1.25 billion Microsoft devices right now (hard facts),
    an user made project of the Linux community did a scientific guess on about 85.619.571 Linux users worldwide. those numbers are easy to make a raw cost/profit estimation.

    Lets take those 85.619.571 people for granted now, deduct it by the amount of people using those devices for gaming, then deduct it by the amount of people interested in 4X games, then deduct it by users playing AOW3, and then deduct to the number of people only want to play it via GOG (refusing Steam for one reason or another). I don’t think there will be more then 1% left of those 85.619.571 users that are the potential market for this “fix”.

    #245581

    official stats show that there are 1.25 billion Microsoft devices right now (hard facts),

    Little correction 1.25 billion devices in 2011, including servers and smartphones,

    but some more recent numbers suggest that Microsoft (including all User that official run AOW3 OSes) have 88.83% of the market shares, where Linux have 1.79% made at may 2016, I am checking for more recourses to confirm this.

    another Stat I have found for April 2016 has a 85.08% market share for windows against a 1.55% for Linux,

    While you can never trust those numbers for a full 100% it still shows the great gap between windows and Linux users (or even linux and mac users)

    #245596

    jake21
    Member

    yawn. Grow up.

    #245597

    Stormwind
    Member

    In my time here I have run across a lot of GoG users and the vocal ones mostly seem to be self important, righteous trolls, always going on about mythical problems with Steam (Which I strongly suspect they have never used since they are always wrong), and then after strutting about the superiority of GoG, have to do an about face and ask for all sorts of special favors for GoG that Steam provides automatically.

    I have been using Steam for I dont know how many years, with about 120 some odd games purchased, and have never had even the slightest issue with any “DRM” nonsense. I buy a game, download, and play it. I dont even know what what imaginary problems the GoG guys imagine there to be, but it must have something to do something other than playing a game since that works just fine.

    I remember one even had the gall to tell me I couldnt play without an internet connection, and when I unplugged my cable and played anyway, he mumbled something about “you dont understand the problem”. Yeah…I can play a game rain or shine, internet or no internet, so no, I dont understand the problem.

    I swear its like a cult. GoG users are the Jehovah Witnesses of the gaming community.

    #245599

    yawn. Grow up.

    Bwahaha is that the best you got kid? Why dont you tell me why you are so important that they have to create an special gog version for you?

    I know why because you are a weak punkass troll, next time try harder or dont bother show up, boys these days need to learn to grow some balls

    In my time here I have run across a lot of GoG users and the vocal ones mostly seem to be self important, righteous trolls, always going on about mythical problems with Steam (Which I strongly suspect they have never used since they are always wrong), and then after strutting about the superiority of GoG, have to do an about face and ask for all sorts of special favors for GoG that Steam provides automatically.

    I have been using Steam for I dont know how many years, with about 120 some odd games purchased, and have never had even the slightest issue with any “DRM” nonsense. I buy a game, download, and play it. I dont even know what what imaginary problems the GoG guys imagine there to be, but it must have something to do something other than playing a game since that works just fine.

    I remember one even had the gall to tell me I couldnt play without an internet connection, and when I unplugged my cable and played anyway, he mumbled something about “you dont understand the problem”. Yeah…I can play a game rain or shine, internet or no internet, so no, I dont understand the problem.

    I swear its like a cult. GoG users are the Jehovah Witnesses of the gaming community

    Love you hon

    #245600

    Gloweye
    Member

    I’m a GoG user technically…..That’s where I bought a copy. I got the steam one for free, and I generally use it because workshop access is easy and I like the overlay.

    There are a few worrisome points in the Steam EULA tho, but as long as the company stays up, there’s not really gonna be a problem.

    #245629

    Stormwind
    Member

    I’m only griping about the vocal ones that are all in your face about being superior. You are cool! I have bought a few games off GoG, I have no problems with the service, though Steam is my vendor of choice, if for no other reason than the virtual lobby/friends list.

    #245679

    jake21
    Member

    Why have you turned this into a gog vs steam thread when the topic should be linux on gog (since Triumph has a linux version of the game) ?

    #245686

    Why have you turned this into a gog vs steam thread when the topic should be linux on gog (since Triumph has a linux version of the game) ?

    but some more recent numbers suggest that Microsoft (including all User that official run AOW3 OSes) have 88.83% of the market shares, where Linux have 1.79% made at may 2016, I am checking for more recourses to confirm this.
    another Stat I have found for April 2016 has a 85.08% market share for windows against a 1.55% for Linux,

    nuff said

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