Lost Soul Idea

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This topic contains 24 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Ericridge 6 years, 10 months ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
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  • #216369

    Ericridge
    Member

    Give Lost Souls a new ability, Possessed.

    Lost Soul disappears and the control of enemy unit become yours if they fail to resist it. Attacks the resistance stat. Can be broken with Break control or Strong Will. Machine units included. Because haunted machinery. Oh and it is a touch spell. When the battle ends, all surviving possessed units fall under necromancer’s control.

    Of course the living possessed units will still be living. So it’s up to necromancer to solve that problem to ghoul them.

    #216378

    They aren’t going to do incarnates as a tier 1 unit. It would be really unbalanced.

    #216388

    Zaskow
    Member

    They aren’t going to do incarnates as a tier 1 unit. It would be really unbalanced.

    Why not? If it will have not very large strength, won’t work on units with MCI and possessed unit dies after combat possessing becomes interesting ability.

    #216392

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Why would Lost Souls become stronger, yet?

    #216398

    Ericridge
    Member

    I just thought it would be funny to see a lost soul possess a manticore or a juggernaut. That’s if they can survive to reach and do an touch attack that doesn’t get resisted.

    #216402

    Fenraellis
    Member

    Inflict Despair and Inflict Curse, even available as easily as using Reanimators, are at least one pair of reasons to generally frown upon having access to a possession mechanic on the Lost Soul.

    Also:

    Why would Lost Souls become stronger, yet?

    This. Lost Souls have gone through several nerfs(changes to Undying, stats, Exploit Despair, Summon Cost, Upkeep Cost) and they are still useful.

    On a side note… Lost Souls were ridiculous at the start of the Beta. If nothing else than just because Undying was unlimited, albeit with a 3-turn respawn timer, rather than the current 2-turn.

    Exploit Despair used to be +2 to all damage channels per tier of negative morale, too. Yes, that is a potential +36 damage per hit, if a unit had access to all channels. Theocrat party leader or Torcherbearer Master(not Keeper of the Peace at the time) + Star Blades worked for a Death Bringer or Necro Hero with Exploit Despair to have all channels.
    Lost Souls can’t get Physical damage(actually, I’m not sure about Lion’s Courage or Warlord/Rogue leader upgrades off the top of my head, but I know Power Ritual only grants them Blight), so they were restricted to a max of +30 per hit, but still, for a basic scout summon?
    … 🙂

    —–

    On a semi-related note, the Devs have stated before that the Incarnate unit caused them the most headaches for balance and functionality, out of all of the former units.

    #216408

    NINJEW
    Member

    a charm/convert/dominate where the defending player can’t even go “ok i’ll kill the evangelist to get my unit back/wait 3 turns” sounds really shitty to play against

    #216414

    Ericridge
    Member

    a charm/convert/dominate where the defending player can’t even go “ok i’ll kill the evangelist to get my unit back/wait 3 turns” sounds really shitty to play against

    Can be broken with Break control or Strong Will.

    Heck can even add cure disease to that too if ya wanna.

    And plus what is Incarnates that you guys talked about anyways?

    #216417

    NINJEW
    Member

    requiring you to have a hero present who has also taken a specific ability sounds kinda dumb. the nice thing about the current control abilities is that they allow you to regain control of your unit, regardless of unit composition.

    my understanding is that incarnates are a t4 unit froma previous AoW game that had the exact ability that you described.

    yeah it’s kind of a thing more fitting for a t4 than a t1, and still sounds mostly just frustrating for everyone rather than fun or interesting.

    #216418

    NINJEW
    Member

    what exactly is the difference between what you are proposing and the “invoke death” ability that the necro t4 has

    successful roll = unit basically dead, guaranteed, if the unit dies at the end of the battle. you can try to mitigate this with “you can break control it” but you’re still giving something analogous to a t4 unit’s abilities to a t1, somewhat spammable unit.

    of course, this does instant death one better, by giving the necro an extra unit to attack with until the end of the battle too.

    #216464

    ExNihil
    Member

    Wouldn’t it instead be better to add a “possess” ability that allows these units to take control, like a ghoul curse, of despairing foes? This could implement the mechanic of lost soul “dying” when striking upon a possession while requiring the prior infliction of despair. Potentially it could be done in a manner that at the end of the battle the possessed unit dies and instead the lost soul re-spawn, thus retaining medals but not allowing for mass conversion and definitely not allowing for any kind of conversion without the presence of other Necromancer units.

    #216474

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Why would the Host/Posessed die? That doesn’t make sense, since the Lost Soul is posessing the host for the sole purpose of being “lost” anymore…

    #216492

    ExNihil
    Member

    conceptually? why because this is an unstable possession and without stabilizing rituals it destroys the host.

    #216497

    NINJEW
    Member

    convert but as an inflict doesn’t sound fun

    #216533

    ExNihil
    Member

    It shouldn’t be an inflict, a 1 use per battle touch ability that requires despair to work is how I would implement this.

    #216537

    Ericridge
    Member

    It shouldn’t be an inflict, a 1 use per battle touch ability that requires despair to work is how I would implement this.

    I thought I made it obvious that it was one time per battle cuz when lost souls possess a unit, it disappears due to it controlling the enemy body now XD Maybe it should work similar to how ghoul curse is, if target resists is made immune.

    And I guess dispel can be added onto the list that can remove possession. But to do so will make possession rather easy to counter.

    #216541

    ExNihil
    Member

    Break Control and Dispel Magic should do the trick, I don’t see any other applicable abilities (cure disease doesn’t fit, it goes to blight based effect, not spirit based).

    #216567

    Khelle
    Member

    This idea has great potential for… being overwhlemingly frustrating for both players. The owners of Lost Souls would be frustrated by deaths of their units due to unsuccessful rolls and the enemies would be frustrated when their strong T3/T4 are taken by them only because player is on lucky streak.

    Just no.

    #216587

    ExNihil
    Member

    Hmm… My friend, t4 units have mind control immunity, also quite a few leveled t3 units have it as well. Also, no convert like ability works without a resistance check. If this is a weak ass inflict ability – say with a check of 6-7 spirit, it will not take over any t3 baseline unit with ease. Finally, this possession ability could be a medal trait of some sort.

    #216593

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Oh, come on, already. Do you really want those bands of roving Lost Souls kill all sensible garrisons or attack forces due to a possess ability? Do you really want Necro players send even more Lost Soul armies than they already do? Would you want to give Cherubs Convert And Die?

    It’s a crappy idea.

    #216613

    NINJEW
    Member

    forcing someone to eat cp or just plain have their unit swap sides without a proper tactical method of reversing that is stupid

    throw in it being on a t1 and things get even dumber

    there is nothing about this idea that sounds remotely enjoyable to play with or against. all the cries against “it’s op” mostly seem to consist of “it’s actually very bad” which uhhhhh

    i don’t even see why lost souls need a buff in the first place, they’re already the bread and butter of necromancers due to being a very good, very early option for use in fights. should lost souls also be nerfed in general to make this unfun buff balanced? maybe if you made their defense and resistance 7/7 so it’d be harder to get them into range to use this crazy new ability. maybe their hp should be changed from 16 to 10. you could make their damage be 2/2 so their offensive abilities are more balanced.

    #216614

    NINJEW
    Member

    i don’t even like this thematically. a necromancer is a lord of the dead, what interest does a necromancer have in obtaining these disgusting fleshy living bodies? necro is supposed to play around with units dying, not mess with units before they die.

    like from an overall design aspect it doesn’t work either, having units swap sides midbattle is theo and rogue’s thing. necromancer kills them first, then takes advantage of them. it’s kind of the death class, there’s nothing to do with dying in possession.

    #216696

    ephafn
    Member

    I am not in favor of the proposal, for reasons that have already been well explained by other people in this thread. However, it gave me an idea that should be more appropriate for a tier-1 unit.

    Let call the ability haunting, which would be usable once per battle, and could only be acquired with a medal (either bronze or gold).

    This ability would target a single enemy unit, with a range of touch only. The targeted unit will get hit by a massive debuff (that can be canceled using Break Control or Dispel), with no possibility of resisting. However, as long as the ability doesn’t get dispelled, the unit is alive, and the unit hasn’t fled the battlefield, the Lost Soul is removed from the battlefield. If either of these situations happens, the Lost Soul reappear next to the unit. If every other units on the Lost Soul side is gone, the effect is also canceled.

    In short, the Lost Soul is temporarily sacrificed in exchange of debuffing an unit.

    For the massive debuff, I was thinking of something that would be a combination of Curse and Weaken, like:
    -40% Spirit and Cold vulnerability. -1 Res, -300 Morale.
    Although that may be too good. Another possibility would be to make the sacrifice permanent (aka: the Lost Soul die when using the ability).

    #216721

    NINJEW
    Member

    That sounds way more sane

    #216941

    Ericridge
    Member

    Well this thread was refreshing and even brought a new unit to my knowledge, aka the incarnates XD Thanks everyone for your input. I just can’t believe I only thought of possession instead haunting like ephafn spoke of. That version is probably better.

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