Lunar Specialization Alpha Launched (and some questions)

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Home Forums Modding and Map Making Lunar Specialization Alpha Launched (and some questions)

This topic contains 44 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  quo 6 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #232141

    quo
    Member

    [Mods, if I’m out of line posting this, please feel free to delete or move. I have several specific questions embedded in this post so hopefully I’m on topic enough to keep this here but if not let me know.]

    So I’ve launched the alpha of first full specialization. I’m looking for some play testers and also some help with a few known issues (I’ll post about those below as a note attached to each item). You can find the Alpha download here on Steam if you’re curious: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=526020591

    GOALS: I wanted this mod to be as plug-and-play as possible. Because of this, I made virtually no tweaks to any existing content.

    LUNAR SPECIALIZATION
    You derive your powers from your association with the moon.

    –LUNAR ADEPT–
    Inherent: Observatories cost 50 mana less

    MOON ARMOR: Places a shield on a friendly unit. When struck in Melee combat, the attacker must save vs Frost or be teleported to a random location.

    MOON EYE: You gain visibility anywhere on the Tactical map for 1 turn. NOTE: There is a known issue with this spell sometimes causing a stack error. The game does not actually crash (for me) but it doesn’t seem to like how this spell is accomplished. I may tweak or even delete this spell depending on how playtesting goes.

    PERIGEE: Deals 12/6 Frost/Fire and pulls flying units to the ground, so they cannot fly over walls for 5 turns.

    SCHOOL OF ASTRONOMY: Your Support units gain +1 Vision radius. NOTE: What I really wanted to do was have this give your Supports gain +1 Vision if built in a city with an Observatory. However, that meant changing the Observatory building, which to maximize mod stacking capability I did not want to do. If someone knows a trick for only giving a bonus to a unit when its built in a city with a certain improvement that doesn’t involve editing the building, please let me know.

    –LUNAR MASTER–
    INHERENT: You can build Planteriums, which increase city domain by an extra +1. NOTE: The existence of this building depends on edits I made to each race’s building list. I am looking to hear from other modders about whether this causes a collision that prevents them from adding their own buildings. If so, I will revise this inherent skill.

    LUNAR ECLIPSE: Everything in the target area gains Lucky. Everything outside the target area must save versus Fire (strength 10) or be Blinded for 2 turns.

    LUNAR PARALLAX: Target friendly unit is teleported to a random location on the tactical map. Enemies within 1 hex of the starting location are dealt 18/8 Frost/Fire.

    NADIR: Every unit of the same type (friend or foe) receives Moon Armor.

    SUMMON MOONSHIP: You summon a Moonship unit. The Moonship can shoot Cosmic bullets, hurl nets from its decks, and has the Phase ability. NOTE: This unit just uses the old ship model. If someone wants to volunteer to make a cool model that would be a huge help, otherwise I’ll need to find a better way to improve the looks of this unit. 🙂

    –BONUS STUFF–
    I believe I might have also put Moon Armor in the item forge by proxy. Not sure if that’s a good idea or not yet. I may remove it from the forge after thinking about it some more.

    #232146

    Gloweye
    Member

    SCHOOL OF ASTRONOMY: Your Support units gain +1 Vision radius. NOTE: What I really wanted to do was have this give your Supports gain +1 Vision if built in a city with an Observatory. However, that meant changing the Observatory building, which to maximize mod stacking capability I did not want to do. If someone knows a trick for only giving a bonus to a unit when its built in a city with a certain improvement that doesn’t involve editing the building, please let me know.

    Not tested it, but you could try making a Player Property: City Property, and give the player property a city requisite filter for Has Observatory. Then have the bestowed City Property add the Requisite.

    NOTE: The existence of this building depends on edits I made to each race’s building list. I am looking to hear from other modders about whether this causes a collision that prevents them from adding their own buildings. If so, I will revise this inherent skill.

    The Race Building Link Data?

    You can just make a duplicate link data list for that, even right next to the old one. Cause you can just add new buildings as seperate link data lists(and that works flawlessly), I think editing the base lists should only be used for removing buildings, as there’s no other way to do that.

    ————————————————————————————————-

    As for the actual content: What’s the range on that Moon Armor teleportation? Entire combat seems a bit strong to me – but making it like 5 hex range would make it like a fun spell.

    #232147

    Ravenholme
    Member

    This seems interesting, will try and give it a test at some point over the next few days

    #232153

    quo
    Member

    You can just make a duplicate link data list for that, even right next to the old one. Cause you can just add new buildings as seperate link data lists(and that works flawlessly), I think editing the base lists should only be used for removing buildings, as there’s no other way to do that

    Perfect answer! Thanks, this settles a long held question of mine. And will also help me unfreeze where I got stuck on the cross class mod.

    #232154

    Lunar eclipse sounds like a lot of fun!!

    #232155

    quo
    Member

    I’m also seeking feedback about the research costs of the skills. I seem to be really bad at setting them. 🙂

    #232229

    quo
    Member

    So I could use some advice on particle effects attached to units. I tried editing the Moonship yesterday and since I dont have a lot of modeling experience but have at least some with particles decided to edit it that way. The particles didn’t seem to stay in the same place in the game as where I thought I put them in the editor.

    I tried to add a kind of cheesy propeller (yes it clips with the sail, but what can you do? 🙂 )

    But in game it looks more like this:

    Now, I did scale the boat up by 50% in Tactical and Strategic combat to give it more presence. Could that be causing this?

    Here’s a screenshot showing how the propeller attaches to the bone of the ship so you can see the settings and where I may have messed up.

    #232437

    quo
    Member

    I managed to fix the particle effects with the propellers. They are kind of cheesy but its what I can handle for now. Changed out the weapon the ship uses, would now like to lift it off the ground so it doesn’t look like its cutting into the terrain. I assume this needs to be done in the model itself, but does anyone know a way to cheat this and position the model in the sky without actually having to retool it? If it comes down to having to use Blender I suppose I can do that, have done it in the past, but its a level of “in the weeds” I’m hoping to bypass if possible.

    #232449

    Tombles
    Keymaster

    MOON ARMOR: Places a shield on a friendly unit. When struck in Melee combat, the attacker must save vs Frost or be teleported to a random location.

    What’s the strength do they have to resist against? This sounds hilariously powerful.

    #232476

    quo
    Member

    What’s the strength do they have to resist against? This sounds hilariously powerful.

    Strength 11. It sounds worse than it is, enough so that I recently buffed the spell on my test instance to include +3 defense against Melee attacks too. The comparable spell is Static Shield, which Stuns the enemy (leaving them open to attacks of opportunity and no retaliations) rather than just flings them somewhere.

    #232576

    Fenraellis
    Member

    Strength 11. It sounds worse than it is, enough so that I recently buffed the spell on my test instance to include +3 defense against Melee attacks too. The comparable spell is Static Shield, which Stuns the enemy (leaving them open to attacks of opportunity and no retaliations) rather than just flings them somewhere.

    Static Shield is also Strength 9…

    Random teleport is actually, as Tombles said, ‘hilariously powerful’ on it’s own. I would be hesitant about adding a defensive boon on top of that. Especially with the Nadir spell further down the line. Unless you add a minor(less than 3) defensive bonus AND lower the check strength.

    #232648

    quo
    Member

    Static Shield is also Strength 9…

    Random teleport is actually, as Tombles said, ‘hilariously powerful’ on it’s own. I would be hesitant about adding a defensive boon on top of that. Especially with the Nadir spell further down the line. Unless you add a minor(less than 3) defensive bonus AND lower the check strength.

    It’s possible I could lower it. Part of the reason the Resist chance was set high early on was to make sure it procced a lot and I could see whether it would crash the game to teleport a unit during the middle of an attack cycle.

    However, having played with it for a while, I still think it is around as powerful as most similar spells. It may need a turn limit of 5 turns instead of end of combat. As it is, I wouldn’t say I’d choose to cast this spell more often than any of the other defensive spells. Main reasons are:

    – Teleporting something away from you is actually a negative for a melee unit or a unit you need to use for melee in a pinch, so putting this spell on them can actually backfire

    – Most Supports and Archers, the main beneficiaries of this spell, don’t have the HP or Defense to stand up to more than one or two strikes. Most people don’t put Static Shield on these units because there isn’t much point.

    – You can’t predict where the unit will teleport to, so it could land somewhere even worse than where it started.

    – Being teleported away can benefit some units, like Calvary, who now get another chance to Charge at you.

    I can see how it might be too powerful on a couple of units. Cannons, trebuchets, etc. But again I don’t think excessively compared to other spells. Teleporting something away is visually cool but in practice definitely weaker than Stun/Freeze/Petrify, which not only stop the unit from attacking, they open it up to flank attacks. It may also be the case that the spell is too good for a sphere spell of its tier and mana cost, but thats more a pricing issue, which I am still resolving. 🙂

    #233141

    iceboy
    Member

    Some errors:

    Attachments:
    #233143

    iceboy
    Member

    Would it be possible to make a version of your mod that is compatible with: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=520963786&searchtext= In other words merged into one master class as well?

    #233169

    quo
    Member

    Some errors:

    Thanks for that. Actually those aren’t “errors” altho the editor reports them that way. “Create Moon Node” is a spell that was partially written but never released. It isn’t attached to any classes, so doesn’t show up in game. I could delete them, but hate to delete a working spell just because it isn’t being used.

    If it bothers people a whole lot I could I suppose create a “dummy” holding bin class that doesn’t show up in game, and assign any unused spells there.

    #233171

    Gloweye
    Member

    It isn’t attached to any classes, so doesn’t show up in game. I could delete them, but hate to delete a working spell just because it isn’t being used.

    If it bothers people a whole lot I could I suppose create a “dummy” holding bin class that doesn’t show up in game, and assign any unused spells there.

    There’s a better way to fix this: Attach it to the secret class. Spells are available from treasure sites only through sets, so it’s a nice container. It prevents any errors.

    Dummy classes, unless build exactly like Secret, give much the same warning. I’ve tried.

    #233173

    quo
    Member

    Would it be possible to make a version of your mod that is compatible with: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=520963786&searchtext= In other words merged into one master class as well?

    The two mods should be compatible, since the Lunar specialization uses all original assets. The thing that won’t work is the Lunar specialization’s spells will still be categorized as either “Adept” or “Master” rather than all rolling into one category.

    Making a spell show up in a different school is a very easy change, the issue it needs to be done spell by spell. I or someone else would basically need to build a mod that is dependent on my base mod and that modifies the flag that indicates which school each spell belongs to, moving the Master skills to Adept. I’ve never actually tried doing this with a sub-mod. The Lunar spec is currently undergoing a lot of changes as a result of the Alpha test, so I can’t be sure yet how soon it will be before the spells are all locked down enough for someone to safely build a sub-mod.

    #233176

    quo
    Member

    There’s a better way to fix this: Attach it to the secret class. Spells are available from treasure sites only through sets, so it’s a nice container. It prevents any errors.

    Dummy classes, unless build exactly like Secret, give much the same warning. I’ve tried.

    Don’t spells assigned to the Secret class show up in the Tome of Wonders as Secret spells? That’s the reason I didn’t give them any classification at all.

    #233182

    Gloweye
    Member

    There’s a better way to fix this: Attach it to the secret class. Spells are available from treasure sites only through sets, so it’s a nice container. It prevents any errors.

    Dummy classes, unless build exactly like Secret, give much the same warning. I’ve tried.

    Don’t spells assigned to the Secret class show up in the Tome of Wonders as Secret spells? That’s the reason I didn’t give them any classification at all.

    They will, but they won’t give errors. They’ll also be unavailable. You can of course duplicate the Secret spec, make the copy invisible, and link them there, but that’s a little more work.

    #233183

    quo
    Member

    They will, but they won’t give errors. They’ll also be unavailable. You can of course duplicate the Secret spec, make the copy invisible, and link them there, but that’s a little more work.

    Thanks for the tip. I think I’ll take that route. What I find with mods is that since players don’t have a sense of what your intent is that you have to “over document” it all and make the descriptions very explicit. I don’t want them to think there are Secret spells out there to find that don’t really exist in the game world. 🙂 Especially since a lot of those spells are half finished and have broken string tags.

    #233203

    I was doing some tests on this mod and picked a halfing dread to test with… thinking to give already lucky units very lucky isntead via lunar eclipse…

    unfortunately… when i do it… my halflings read ‘target cannot be affected’.

    I thought 2 copies of lucky stacked for very luck? Or does this not work with lunar eclipse?

    meh.. Frostling dread might be better for it instead with all the chilling to make moon armor work.

    Nadir spell doesnt seem to show up either

    #233210

    quo
    Member

    Thanks Psychotic. I have actually changed how Lunar Eclipse works in the next patch, which will likely roll out later this week. In the next patch, Lunar Eclipse works like this:
    – Units without Lucky will gain Lucky (as it is now)
    – Units with Lucky from any source other than Lunar Eclipse gain Very Lucky (previously they were simply unaffected)
    – Anything with Lucky or Very Lucky from a previous cast of Lunar Eclipse is simply not affected

    I did it this way so Halflings can still gain from it but you can’t recast to stack it. FYI, the cost, tier, and candles for this spell have all increased in the next patch as well, as it is quite powerful.

    The Nadir spell is also going away entirely. I just don’t like it, its very hard to balance. In it’s place will be something else. Moon Armor will still be around to fulfill your teleporting-armor needs. 🙂

    #233211

    Can’t edit my post for some reason.

    By nadir missing, I mean I can research it, but it doesnt show up in the spellbook in tactical combat.

    #233213

    quo
    Member

    BTW does anyone of any cheat codes that can force the start of a particular Cosmic Event? I’m testing something involving a tie-in to those events, and its very hard to do since the events show up randomly.

    #233235

    BTW does anyone of any cheat codes that can force the start of a particular Cosmic Event? I’m testing something involving a tie-in to those events, and its very hard to do since the events show up randomly.

    Or some equivalent to the spinoza cheat that doesn’t work, to get all the spells at once?

    Using LEEUWENHOEK a million times to get spells to test gets annoying.

    #233236

    Tibbles
    Member

    Using LEEUWENHOEK a million times to get spells to test gets annoying.

    Erasmus

    #233247

    quo
    Member

    My main test character is actually named “AA Erasmus Rembrandt” to help me remember the cheat codes I most often use. 🙂

    I’m guessing there isn’t a code to force a Cosmic Happening. I may just have to set the Event chances really high on my test instance, and rely on the gaming community to report issues that creep through.

    #233262

    Gloweye
    Member

    BTW does anyone of any cheat codes that can force the start of a particular Cosmic Event? I’m testing something involving a tie-in to those events, and its very hard to do since the events show up randomly.

    You can make a custom map with a line of pandora boxes, so you’re guaranteed a couple of events.

    Wouldn’t know how to force them otherwise though.

    #233399

    quo
    Member

    So I updated this thing. Won’t go into the full list of changes here unless there are questions, but you can read them here if you’re inclined: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/changelog/526020591

    And I did end up dropping the chance of Moon Armor’s proc from strength 11 down to 10, and the Melee Defense from 3 to 2 partially in response to Tombles’ comment, so he can feel like part of the gang now, having had one of his forum suggestions implemented by a (makeshift tho it may be) dev. 😀

    Waiting to see if anything explodes with the new Moon Spire building and it’s tie in to Cosmic Events before making my next move.

    #233407

    I really like the tie-in with bonuses based on cosmic events.
    Are you planning on expanding it with bonuses for the other types of cosmic events?

    Also thanks for maintain moonship so a dreadnought isn’t required to keep one alive…
    (and thanks for fulfilling my wish of getting those flying dutchmen back btw)

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