[Mod] Hero Development Mod

We’ve moved over to the paradox forums. Please come visit us there to discuss:
You can still read the collective wisdom - and lolz - of the community here, but posting is no longer possible.

Home Forums Modding and Map Making [Mod] Hero Development Mod

Tagged: 

This topic contains 36 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  ihsan07 5 years ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 37 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #231861

    Eomolch
    Member

    The goal of this mod is to make hero development more interesting and diverse. What I mean by this is that I wanted to get away from my usual routine, which usually was “make every hero a ranged dps unless it is a warlord”. So I introduced 3 specializations to each class that a hero of that corresponding class could learn and would provide a different “route” of available hero upgrades which usually aimed at making the hero more suitable for a specific combat role. For further diversification I introduced racial hero upgrades, which while less important than class or specialization add some nice utility and style.

    But let’s look at some hard facts:
    – 3 specializations per class, usually one of them with a melee focus, ranged focus or support focus / melee and ranged mix
    – each specialization consists of 4 tiers following the scheme below (with some exceptions):
    — tier I unlocks 4 skills, available at lvl 1
    — tier II unlocks 4 skills, available at lvl 5
    — tier III unlocks 3 skills, available at lvl 9
    — tier IV unlocks 2 skills, available at lvl 13
    — for leaders tier I-III unlock 1 skill less (spells)
    – in addition there is a pool of class skills that are learn-able regardless of the chosen specialization

    – racial hero upgrades feature a total of 7 race dependent skills
    – they are unlocked at lvl 1,3,5,7,9,11,13

    – general changes:
    — hero upgrades unlocking spells cost 1 less (now 4 was 5)
    — defense, melee and ranged damage upgrades increase in cost by 2 per level (was 1)
    — removed some of the old hero upgrades (they still show up in the tome of wonders even though they shouldn’t)

    I haven’t counted the number of new abilities I created for this mod, but you can be assured that they are plenty 😉

    Currently the mod is only available on steam.

    So, I hope you will enjoy trying out the mod and if you do (try it out …) provide me with some feedback as well as a report on possible bugs or problems 🙂

    Best regards,
    Eomolch

    #231880

    Gilafron
    Member

    Sounds really cool, I’ll try it out.

    Question for you, what do you think of removing the starting magic items and replacing them with abilities? I’ve thought of doing that. I just find it annoying when a warlord is running around with a holy staff or lightning lord, or a sorcerer has a musket. These items could be common items that are discover-able.

    #231881

    Eomolch
    Member

    Actually I did remove the starting items xD Just forgot to write it down here, but it’s listed in the description on steam. I haven’t introduced them as common items yet, but the thought occured to me, so maybe I will add it to the mod too.

    The reasons for removing the items was not just the argument you mentioned but also because some of the default ranged abilities were moved to a specialization (e.g. arch druid only learns longbow if he chooses huntsman specialization, arch druid only starts with shoot shortbow now).

    #231897

    Gloweye
    Member

    I haven’t introduced them as common items yet, but the thought occured to me, so maybe I will add it to the mod too.

    Make sure to add it to the item sets!

    #231902

    Eomolch
    Member

    I haven’t introduced them as common items yet, but the thought occured to me, so maybe I will add it to the mod too.

    Make sure to add it to the item sets!

    Thank you for the hint, I haven’t really worked with the source file containing the items yet.

    #231903

    Gloweye
    Member

    well, if you forget this itty bitty thing, they’ll never turn up in structure rewards. I haven’t checked it out myself by detail, but it’s a bit like adding units to unit sets when you add them to a race. otherwise you’re never going to see them as city spawn units or such.

    #232087

    esvath
    Member

    Does this mod work with +30 new heroes made by Tombles and Tibbles? If not, can you make a version that compatible with it? Thanks!

    #232114

    The Mentat
    Member

    Looks great! I‘m really looking forward to test this mod.

    Unfortunately I also have a lot of work at the moment. So you’ll have to wait for my feedback until … december hopefully. 🙁

    #232216

    Eomolch
    Member

    Does this mod work with +30 new heroes made by Tombles and Tibbles? If not, can you make a version that compatible with it? Thanks!

    It only partially works with that mod. I guess that I could make a compability mod though (additionaly, I can’t make it part of my mod unless I would auto-include those heroes, but that would be like stealing Tombles/Tibbles mod).

    @the Mentat: sorry to hear, you have so little time at the moment, but at the bright side this means the mod will probably be more polished and balanced when you can try it out 🙂

    #232947

    Eomolch
    Member

    Just wanted to upload the documentation of my mod for people who are interested in the mod or want a list of the new hero upgrades. No guarantees though that it will always be up to date.

    Attachments:
    1. AoW3HeroMod.pdf
    #233252

    Just wondering, did you think regrowth too strong for AD and removed it even from the Shaman spec?

    I Like the combination of both race and class skills btw. Gives me a reason to turn off heroes match race to get some nice variety combos in.

    #233281

    Eomolch
    Member

    Just wondering, did you think regrowth too strong for AD and removed it even from the Shaman spec?

    I Like the combination of both race and class skills btw. Gives me a reason to turn off heroes match race to get some nice variety combos in.

    Yes, I generally removed regrowth from the AD, however the shaman can learn to transform into an earth elemental which might be even stronger, though I couldn’t really test it in a normal game yet. Generally the tier IV transform abilities (there are 5 in total) are the ones that worry me the most balancing-wise, it is possible that I will have to make copies of the target units that are only used for the transform ability and will have less HP.

    #233402

    Just wondering, did you think regrowth too strong for AD and removed it even from the Shaman spec?

    I Like the combination of both race and class skills btw. Gives me a reason to turn off heroes match race to get some nice variety combos in.

    Yes, I generally removed regrowth from the AD, however the shaman can learn to transform into an earth elemental which might be even stronger, though I couldn’t really test it in a normal game yet. Generally the tier IV transform abilities (there are 5 in total) are the ones that worry me the most balancing-wise, it is possible that I will have to make copies of the target units that are only used for the transform ability and will have less HP.

    haha yes when i was running around using cheats to test I ended up with 200 hp shadow stalkers and earth elementals because they had so many champion levels from the hero xp… Loss of all the usual hero abilities is a significant price to pay for transforming though, so I wouldn’t want the hp nerfed TOO badly. (and i do still prefer to have regrowth on a shaman spec ad :P)

    #233414

    Also, 1 more thing – if you are going to give tigran heroes LoS ignoring throw blades, then I think all HE heroes should be able to learn longbow.

    #233428

    esvath
    Member

    Wow, there is so much information on the pdf, thanks for uploading it!

    Some questions/suggestions:

    1) I really like the racial skills. Great job on making them!

    2) Archdruid:
    a. +1 for Regrowth on Shaman. I envision Shaman as a spellcaster hero, thus transforming to Earth elemental while fun is not too thematic. Transforming into Earth elemental fits Sorcerer/Medium better, in my opinion. Furthermore, transforming into Earth elemental will make “Beast within” obsolete because the hero can not transform twice, right?
    b. Beastmaster has “Summon beast horde” and “Call familiar”. What is the difference between these two? One is a spell and one is an active ability, but with same effect?

    3) On the same note on Dreadnought: there are several spells that are also available as skills at higher levels (such as Flash Bang). Is this intended?

    4) Rogue: no Invisibility to Assassin?

    5) Sorcerer: I propose that you differentiate the specialisations further. Here is my suggestion:
    a. Illusionist: focus on disabling enemies, inflict debuff and illusion spells; each level increases resistance and defense to portray their casting illusion spells to protect themselves.
    b. Medium: focus on summoning elementals; each level increases elemental melee and range damage. I imagine medium heroes shoot at early game, summon elementals at mid/later game and then capable of transforming into Greater Elemental at the end. Maybe after choosing Aspect of an element, the Medium can select an ability to transform into the respective elemental?
    c. Warlock: direct damage spell caster; each level increases resistance/range damsge/casting point; gain nuke spells at higher levels. Warlock heroes should never worry about CP.

    All in all, great mod here and I will use it in my all games!

    #233465

    Regardng mediums, can you make avatar changes a free action, with the restriction of no more than 1 change per turn to prevent easy charging.

    Right now I find its just not worth it to use a turn in the middle of a fight changing form. Id treat it like those tigran transforms… which are also free actions.

    Basically with my medium sorc hero right now I throw up water avatar, which I find thr most useful, and leave it up the entire battle.

    If u want to make them elemental sytle as previous poster suggested, then maybe add control elemental.right now only dominate works on them.

    #233683

    Eomolch
    Member

    Also, 1 more thing – if you are going to give tigran heroes LoS ignoring throw blades, then I think all HE heroes should be able to learn longbow.

    Not sure, what HE stands for, but I don’t think throw blades is unfair for tigrans. Longbow is still better in open field battles and classes other than archdruid will just benefit from the additional physical ranged attack, which only in case of the rogue will make shoot darts obsolete.

    Also, I will keep the Avatar of X thing in mind. It is very unlikely I will make them free since there has to be a drawback for switching between them (after all, you can adapt to almost any situation when you have all 4 avatar skills). Maybe I will just make elemental discharge a little cheaper to learn, not sure about it yet.

    2) Archdruid:
    a. +1 for Regrowth on Shaman. I envision Shaman as a spellcaster hero, thus transforming to Earth elemental while fun is not too thematic. Transforming into Earth elemental fits Sorcerer/Medium better, in my opinion. Furthermore, transforming into Earth elemental will make “Beast within” obsolete because the hero can not transform twice, right?

    The argument that the earth transform ability makes beast within obsolete is a good one. I thought about it some more and decided against replacing it with regrowth since that would have just made beast within obsolete as well. Instead shaman IV now unlocks a new skill called primal instinct which will give the shaman savage rage, +2 def, +2 res and regrowth while in beast form.

    b. Beastmaster has “Summon beast horde” and “Call familiar”. What is the difference between these two? One is a spell and one is an active ability, but with same effect?

    The difference is that call familiar summons a single tier II unit next to the caster while summon beast horde is the arch druid spell.

    3) On the same note on Dreadnought: there are several spells that are also available as skills at higher levels (such as Flash Bang). Is this intended?

    Yes, this is intended. Usually the non-spell variant is stronger since it doesn’t cost mana and isn’t bound to the 1 spell per turn rule. On the other hand it doesn’t have infinite range so both versions have situations where they are better than their counterpart.

    4) Rogue: no Invisibility to Assassin?

    Yes. They have their concealment, invisibility is imho only suitable for magic effects or beings.

    5) Sorcerer: I propose that you differentiate the specialisations further. Here is my suggestion:
    a. Illusionist: focus on disabling enemies, inflict debuff and illusion spells; each level increases resistance and defense to portray their casting illusion spells to protect themselves.
    b. Medium: focus on summoning elementals; each level increases elemental melee and range damage. I imagine medium heroes shoot at early game, summon elementals at mid/later game and then capable of transforming into Greater Elemental at the end. Maybe after choosing Aspect of an element, the Medium can select an ability to transform into the respective elemental?
    c. Warlock: direct damage spell caster; each level increases resistance/range damsge/casting point; gain nuke spells at higher levels. Warlock heroes should never worry about CP.

    These are interesting ideas, however I already chose different approaches when modeling those specializations (also I’d say they play very different, sorcerer is already the class that got the most complex and flashy new abilities).

    The illusionist does debuff the opponent (dazzled, broken spirit) and he protects himself by creating phantasmal images which can take attention and damage that could otherwise have affected him (also projectile reflection could be interpreted as a defensive spell).

    The medium studies the element by channeling them inside himself rather than summoning them (that would be a summoner or conjurer). I agree I could have given him a transform ability at tier IV, but the 2 slots were already filled by the 4th avatar skill and the discharge which exists to encourage switching between avatar buffs (also when it comes down to it transform abilities are rather boring).

    As far as the warlock goes, you may be right that I didn’t really get the essence of a warlock into the specialization. But I didn’t want to make a caster spec since it would have been a nightmare to balance and also rather boring since it can’t interact very well with other units due to the one spell per turn limitation. I figured the cast fireball ability which effectively works as a free short-ranged spell would have to suffice, apart from that ability the spec is more designed as a warmage, I will give you that.

    All in all, great mod here and I will use it in my all games!

    Thank you 🙂

    #233712

    @ Eolmoch

    HE = High Elf.

    If you gave tigrans throw blades for thematic reasons, I think elves should all have longbows. The way it is right now, Tigrans heroes are racially better @ Range than elf ones, which irks me.

    Regarding Avatars – How about making them leave u with 1 action point after use then, a la shadow step?

    Right now, I find I am completely ignoring the entire medium skillset after avatar of water because its never worth it to change for me – even when i’ve got a permahaste tigran as the medium who offsets part of avatar of earth’s penalties with it.
    Ofc, water avatar is really good (the main selling point of medium for me), especially when you’re playing a Warlord who can death march that stack every turn. (although because of the current way avatars work, said medium isn’t actually benefiting that much from all those levels without a strong L13 skill)

    I do appreciate all the work you’ve done though.
    You’ve forced hard choices for most spec types.

    #233730

    Eomolch
    Member

    Ah, High Elves, I see. Well I must admit, when I realized elves were the only race apart from orcs and humans that didn’t get any new ranged attack, I wasn’t completely happy. However you have to consider 2 things: For one thing elves ARE still the best ranged race, they do more ranged damage with any weapon that involves physical or shock damage and on top of that gain the ranged leadership at lvl 9. For another, shoot longbow would be too strong as a racial upgrade and it would overlap with the huntsman spec which is bad.

    As for the avatars, I originally let them leave one action point but that led to the problem you could just zap through all elements within one turn and fire off the elemental discharge. When you brought the topic up again I thought about it some more and came up with a solution for this: Now the avatar skills will give the caster the ‘exhausted’ debuff that will keep it from using more avatar skills the same turn. So now using them can leave one action point which I agree, as you pointed out, may be a good compromise.

    #233753

    esvath
    Member

    Nice change on “Savage Rage” which boost “Beast Within” form for Archdruid heroes!

    I also can understand your reasoning on the Warlock. Sometime I missed “many spells per turn” feature from the previous AOW :p

    Another idea on Medium:
    How about making all Aspects are at same tier (maybe Tier II) with reduced effect but a hero can choose one element to master it at Tier III?

    So: Tier II (little bit weaker effects than current version, but hero can choose them all)
    — Aspect of Air
    — Aspect of Earth
    — Aspect of Fire
    — Aspect of Water

    Tier III (increase the relevant Aspect’s effect, hero can only choose one)
    — Mastery of Air
    — Mastery of Earth
    — Mastery of Fire
    — Mastery of Water

    Tier IV (transform to one element, hero can only choose one from the Master skill)
    — Air Elemental Transformation
    — Earth Elemental Transformation
    — Fire Elemental Transformation
    — Water Elemental Transformation

    So, Medium heroes have the choice whether to go wide (teching on all Aspects) or deep (teching to one element)

    #233826

    Nice job w the new shaman regrowth animal application. I agree its fittingly thematic, even if I guarantee I will curse not having the litning and regrowth combo for a siege at some point.

    Thanks for the medium changes as well.

    Regarding the elf and tigran range thing:

    If you think racial longbows are too srrong and conlifxt w huntsman, then perhaps increase the level you get access to it compared to otger races ranged atks, and make it arcane arrows.

    Right now, my tigran pillager wl has the full seeker combo of throw blades and strong draw, something elves can only get with an ad.

    I also have some suggeations regarding the saboteur.

    Right now,i doubt id ever take it over classic engy or super tank siege tower.

    How about giving them a ‘mine’ abilit, which triggers when a unit, friend or foe, enters oppoetunity atk range. Haste and flyers could therefore avoid it.

    Also, summon spy drone once per battle for the express purpsose of suicide bomb

    Also, btw, is pillager enslave intended to work on undead? I was surprised in a crypt to find that reanimators were valid targets.

    #233998

    Also, just to confirm, did you remove starting spells from most of the heroes? I see so many with no starting spells.

    Regarding engineer shoulder cannon -> I can’t reload the thing because my hero is neither a machine or a musketeer… and can therefore fire it only once per battle, because in later turns its ‘weapon not loaded’. Intentional?

    #234023

    Thanks Tibbles, would you happen to know the link for deleting posts (like this one) as well?

    Also I still dont understand why sometimes the edit button appears and sometimes it doesn’t.

    #234024

    Tibbles
    Member

    Still can’t edit posts…

    http://aow.triumph.net/forums/reply/233998/edit

    ^ should let you edit your second to last post.

    Just use http://aow.triumph.net/forums/reply/*Your post number*/edit

    #234051

    Eomolch
    Member

    @esvath: Giving the medium the choice to either trait deep into one element or take a little bit of everything is an interesting idea. One problem I see with this is that I would have to expand the other specs as well for reasons of fairness and balance, and I won’t have time for any big changes during the next weeks. But I will keep this in mind.

    @psychoticsoul: My mod only changes hero upgrades and templates and 2-3 skills affecting devout units.

    I will check if I can make the shoulder-cannon reloadable (if the skill really needs engineer or machine requisite that won’t be possible) but maybe a plain 1 turn cooldown would be better anyway.

    As far as arcane arrows go, they could indeed be an option. I thought their basedamage was higher and therefore discarded them as an option, but it seems like I remembered it wrong.

    Regarding saboteur spec, it does have it’s advantages (e.g. firebomb for everyone), though I will admit it starts slow. A mine skill would be very difficult to implement and also I don’t think it would really suit a saboteur. But I will think about a replacement ranged attack for flash-bang or an additional ranged attack for tier I which is probably what the saboteur needs most.

    #234069

    Gloweye
    Member

    I will check if I can make the shoulder-cannon reloadable (if the skill really needs engineermusketeer or machine requisite that won’t be possible) but maybe a plain 1 turn cooldown would be better anyway.

    (I changed a word up there…)

    Well, that’s how rapid reload works. There’s a special “reloadable” requisite that it checks for.

    I think it’d dangerous balance wise to start playing with reload mechanics on heroes – there’s only one switch in there. So if you’d for example allow this to reload a shoulder cannon, and make a druid able to reload Call Lightning, either reload would also work for the other ability.

    Just refreshing CD is also dangerous, as it’ll work for all (non-reloadable) abilities.

    #234678

    Eomolch
    Member

    @gloweye: Not sure what you thought I meant, but now the ability just has a plain 1 turn CD without any reload.

    @psychotic: You got your arcane arrows 😉 (lvl 5) Also saboteur can now learn shoot fireworks at tier I to help with slow start. Halflings now have lucky slingshot (new) instead.

    #235608

    I honestly don’t know why my game gets weird bugs sometimes…

    This time it appears that, when playing Necro the resistances AND weaknesses from becoming undead via Harbingers of death, AND Lich II or Vampire II… Stack.

    I’m aware that vampire II gives extra 20% fire weakness, and lich II gives extra 20% spirit weakness, but this goes beyond that.

    So i’ve got heroes with 200% blight protection, 80% frost protection…
    But vampires have 60% fire weakness (Vampire 2 20%, and undead weakness of 20% fire TWICE)and 80% spirit weakness
    While Liches have 40% Fire weakness (undead weakness TWICE), and 100%!! spirit weakness(undead weakness twice and LIch II)

    See my screenshot samples below:

    #235615

    Gloweye
    Member

    This should be able to be prevented by editing Undead not to stack. Though it’s kind of weird that that’s not in the base game…

    #235703

    Eomolch
    Member

    I honestly don’t know why my game gets weird bugs sometimes…

    This time it appears that, when playing Necro the resistances AND weaknesses from becoming undead via Harbingers of death, AND Lich II or Vampire II… Stack.

    I’m aware that vampire II gives extra 20% fire weakness, and lich II gives extra 20% spirit weakness, but this goes beyond that.

    So i’ve got heroes with 200% blight protection, 80% frost protection…
    But vampires have 60% fire weakness (Vampire 2 20%, and undead weakness of 20% fire TWICE)and 80% spirit weakness
    While Liches have 40% Fire weakness (undead weakness TWICE), and 100%!! spirit weakness(undead weakness twice and LIch II)

    See my screenshot samples below:

    Whoops, didn’t expect this to happen, will take a look at it.

    @gloweye: Yeah, that should theoratically do the trick.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 37 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.