My only gripe with AoW3 so far… unified graphical representation of class unit

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions My only gripe with AoW3 so far… unified graphical representation of class unit

This topic contains 103 replies, has 36 voices, and was last updated by  Gyor 9 years, 6 months ago.

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    I did nowhere say that it’s no big deal doing those imaginary additional models. I was saying that I think that it’s nothing that could be called impossible. I was saying so because some people here gave their opinion that it would probably be impossible and I really do not think so.

    It’s perfectly clear that such additional work and employees would cost money, but let’s be honest, the models we have seen so far are good but they are nothing exceptional or cutting edge when compared to nowadays standards. I don’t know how well people are payed in the games industry I only hear payment is pretty bad and work overtime is standard. I don’t endorse these conditions but I would guess that hiring 2 employees as modelers with basic experience in the field would probably be sufficient (I remember that TS has hired even a few internships for work on AoW3, who knows what they were doing?) and the costs for 6 months would maybe total around 50.000€. This is just a wild guess, sure, but maybe this is somewhere in the right region. I don’t have no idea on what budget TS is working here but 50K€ doesn’t sound like that much when there are some potential investors backing, does it? All I wanna say is that in my opinion it would be far from impossible to do this imaginary additional work.
    Of course I cannot and will not provide any work or money for TS, who am I to do so?
    I don’t have the skills and I don’t get paid for this. This is a non-valid “kill the discussion” argument, you are bringing up here, Edi IMO.
    I am not allowed to criticize because I wouldn’t do or be able to do the work I am criticizing?
    Are we not allowed to express an opinion about a picture of Picasso because we are not as skilled as the master himself. This is nonsense, Edi.
    Man, it’s not my job to work for TS, I am a customer that might buy their product, let the crickets sing.
    They have their management and project staff and all I am saying is how I think they COULD modify their plans to obtain a better, more satisfying product for me, and maby others too.
    My job in this affair is to buy the final product and I already stated that I’d be willing to pay a much higher price than I will have to pay.

    I said before already, my opinion may change based on further information we will get.
    TS has already worked for quite some time on AoW3 and IMO it doesn’t make sense to wait with critique and ask for such large changes 3 or 4 further months down the road because then it will be DEFINITELY too late.

    This thread is for people to express their opinion on the subject of the unified class unit approach TS has taken. Be it they like it, be it they hate it, be it they are indifferent. Why should we not be allowed to tell TS what we think about what we have seen and been told so far, Edi? If you can wait and see what the further bits of information TS will provide us with will bring, yours is the option to remain silent and not contribute to this thread until you think it is all good or it is all bad or anything in between.





    I am completely with StupendousMan and his followers.



    StupendousMan, there is a saying we have that so the forest answers as it is called, meaning that you generally get a response in kind. There’s a difference in speaking your opinion and telling someone else how to do their jobs and you’re squarely in the latter category by now. You’ve made it clear in this thread that you only consider your own opinion the valid one and you’re also being really bloody condescending about it all the time, so don’t be surprised when you get treated exactly the same way you treat others. There are more productive ways to express your concerns, but I suppose being courteous and polite when expressing them is too much to ask of you.

    As far as you being a Triumph Studios customer, yes, and…? So are the rest of us. Don’t presume to speak for everyone, as you have been doing.




    Edi: Well said sir +1

    But i have to admit StupendousMan didnt say bad things. I read many forums about AoW 3 and yes its the truth that so much people saying this: wtf is that winged goblin. But atlest the same amount people are there who say its a good thing. Thats why i said it doesnt matter how many units Triumph make they cant please everyone. And i didnt defend them because im a mindles fanboy, well honestly its new to my when someone call my a fanboy because usually im the fanboy basher(especially on blizzard forums :D) just i think Triumph didnt deserve this so many “wtf is this” whine when they never disappointed us. Do you remember AoW 1? Most of the tier 1 melee units were swordmans. Elven sm, Human sm, Lizard sm, Halfing sm ect. still no one said wtf is this bullshit that near all T1 melee units were sm, because they have different stats and ablilities so they didnt be the same. As one of the key members said units keep their racial stats and abilities even when they became “leader specials” so a goblin crusader will be totally different from a dwarf crusader stat, look and ability wise and its more than enough for me. Look at AoW 2. You can customize the leaders but the units were all the same. For example u cant change the orc units no matter how you changed the leaders, still no one complained. In AoW 3 you have 6 different leaders with 4-5 special units + the core ones which means atleast 6 different play style with orcs or anyone else. Thats six time better than what we have in AoW or AoW 2 and the fans want more… I just feel Triumph offer its little finger but fans wants the whole arm… Ofcourse different class unit/race would be great but do you really think they dont do it because they are lazy? NO they just know their limits. And i have a feeling this will be the best AoW in the series 🙂


    They aren’t angels, they are “exalted”, meaning uber elite, or in this sense the most fanatical. Tbh, an easy way to clear this up would be to mark different elites with different stuff. Goblins could get to ride dragon specially bred wargs or wyverns. The idea is that the truest believers in a theocracy et the gift of flight, here a pair of wings. However, that is just begging to be called angels, and is opening up a whole can of worms…


    I think the base idea is absolutely t, but I would LOVE to be able to  a religious orc keader and have my “exalted” be a unit similar to the AoW1 syron in strength, i.e.  a pumped up warlord. Remember, orcs hate anything of beauty….



    Just my tuppence.



    What would be really really cool, but unlikely, is sub paths within your play path, so an industrialist (or whatever the name is) can focus on building up their cavalry, or infantry, or naval expertise, with progressively higher costs, and so can choose where they want their empire’s “edge” to be.


    I am us to know if/how theocracy will cross over/intersect with the roles of the spirits of war, magic and nature (was there one more?) assuming those spirits are still around…



    I say we all stop the bitching. You all have valid points and unvalid ones. Having an aow 3 is amazing by itself. Asking for it to be your 10000% favorite game with everything you want it is a bit selfish. We are here to express our own opinions and make a game that’ll be fun and enjoyfull for everyone. Stuff I like could piss someone else, and vice versa.  So all we have to do is just speak out our suggestions so that TS can make a “harmonic” mix of them to satisfy most of us 😀

    And the argue you guys have going on about Homm is just a freakin’ headache. Stuff you typed, you didn’t type, things you said, how you ment them etc etc. Some people just do not communicate on the same wave length. You could be easily saying the same thing and still fight about it. So let it stop here.




    And who asked for this or that me?Im one of those who realized the limits,time and resource a studio can have and dont want +60 units or more this and that. Im quite happy with info Triumph provided to us and i really like what i see. But this is a forum where people can discuss there thoughts freely. If some want for example +10 race he can tell to us even if its ridiculous, because thats how the forum works. The worse thing that can happen is that Triumph ignore him 🙂

    Btw we stopped that Heroes nonsense already 🙂




    Truthfully, after looking through the six screenshots provided I can already see graphical assets for two types of wings. I think it is a little short-sighted to assume that just because both units can become Angels that they would have the exact same graphics for those wings.

    It also makes no sense to provide Goblins with Wyverns etc. because that’s even less lore coherent. Either they’ve transcended to Angel status, in which case they’ll need wings or they’ve simply been given the ability to fly.

    Though I can understand your concerns, I do find it very unlikely that TS would have been short-sighted enough to provide the exact same stereotypical angel wings for every model. The brown wings for example would suit an Angel Goblin much better than the white wings would.





    Tomipapa, you just repeated whatever i said. Just sayin’.



    TheDio: Yes , because im also thinking the same. Saying the same thing 2 times not always wrong 🙂

    Jayaris: Nice found. Btw they are not angels, they are exalted. That city look like an elven city and those units also. So i think its an elven exalted. And maybe he got those evil looking wings because the elven Theocrat playing in evil style. If in the campaign u can be corrupted i think u can do the same in custom game.



    The thing with the brown wings doesn’t look anything like an elf to me, more like an orc or goblin.



    Yes maybe its a goblin or orc, but if you look cloesly to his armor it is the same as the ones near the elven city and those are not look like an orc or a goblin.


    edi, We have a similar saying here, it goes like this “Wie man in den Wald ruft, so schallt es heraus”.

    But well, you were suggesting in your posts I’d be somebody who only talks and such nonsense stuff and now you are saying I’d be telling others how to do their job and this is again, total BS.
    I have made many specific points in my previous post but all we get from you in return is just accusation regarding discussion style. Au contraire I despise your discussion style because you are making personal attacks while I was always concentrating on a specific goal to achieve, my language may have been a bit harsh now and then, I’ll give you that.
    I am not to keen on politically correct or soft speech I’d rather have problems pointed out clear and things done.
    And a last word on this H3/H6 story, I will never stop telling people that they are uttering BS when somebody states that it becomes a “fact” or “truth” when many/most/all people have a certain opinion on a given subject. You seem to be a sympathic fellow, Tomipapa, but please think about it and become aware that there is no such thing as an absolute truth or a fact about one game being better than another.

    Anyway, my “job” here seems pretty much done here, TS seems to have a chance now to become aware that people might not like this specific decision of theirs, thats all there was to it.

    The sequence of things is clear:
    1) Devs produce a game
    2) Devs show the fans/public preliminary results
    3) Fans/Potential customers can give feedback on things they like and don’t like (We are HERE atm)
    4) Devs decide whether to incorporate fans’ suggestions and to what extent
    5) Customers decide whether to buy full price/discount/not at all

    We are at stage 3, if we express our opinion, something MIGHT be changed.
    If we don’t express what we do not like, no changes will be made for certain.
    I contributed to phase 3 and will re-examine my opinion as soon as we have new material from TS and make a final decision at stage 5.

    I will continue to say however, that, if nothing happens with regards to those nearly identical class unit looks, it because TS/publishers don’t WANT it, not because it can’t be done time and finance-wise.
    It’s a purely managerial decision which is financially driven and I find it somewhat surprising that not a few peeps here are jumping to TS’s protection here.
    Yes, they will have made all calculations so that the project as a whole will fly and know their limits, but they have surely adjusted the plans so that there will be a comfortable surplus in.

    All I was suggesting was to invest those additional estimated(!) 50K€ to bring AoW3 to an even better level.
    Invest those 50K€ out of the pocket, beggar your investors or beggar the fans, i.e. do a Kickstarter, as I said before I am willing to pay 100-200€, or bring additional unit graphics as DLCs.
    There are many possible ways to do it.

    They will only do it if they see that the fans are discontent.
    It’s up to the fans now to speak their mind.



    Olympic level gun jump, I’m not sure how the fans can be discontent when there has been no specific information regarding the graphical models of the unit customization system.

    This thread was spawned from what may, or may not be according to the very sparse information you’ve read.

    Investors? KickStarter? How’s about you wait till you have actual confirmation?

    But, maybe I’ve missed something because the way you guys are ranting there must have been some pretty concrete video footage.


    You seen the screenshot with the Theocrat class units?
    What unit customization system u talking about?



    I’ve seen it, and what do you think that is proof of exactly?


    You like the looks of the Goblin Exalted? the Goblin Crusader? the Dwarven Evangelist? the Goblin Martyr?



    Apologies, could you link me the screenshot you mean, and give me a vague location of what units you’re referencing?

    Or if you’re talking about a frame on the trailer, give me the time-stamp.



    Honestly, I wouldn’t take concept art as definitive proof. But, I can agree that there is an issue with the white wings on the goblin.

    There is a great deal of time-saving copy pasting in that particular picture, the wings are exactly the same only scaled and flipped. Martyr and Evangelist look fine though, I’m dubious as to whether those exact armour dimensions would still be desirable when made that small.

    Like I say, there’s an issue with the wings. But, there is a lot of copy pasting in that image, and it would not surprise me if the goblins with wings looked different in the actual game. If I see an in-game screenshot of the same thing then I would definitely agree that in some cases changes need to be made (different accessory assets for certain races).

    But, in the case of the Dwarven Evangelist, I see no reason why a Dwarf would be exempt from religious uniform. Or why a Goblin wouldn’t wear the same uniform as his peers. If the goblin or any race joins a religious sect then he is still provided by the same tailors/smiths etc.


    Yes, nobody takes anything here as proof, we are just discussing on the basis what we have been given and shown so far.
    Devs have already confirmed that class units will be built together according to the formula: racial base mesh + class appearance + fx.
    This SOUNDS like all races’ e.g. Exalted have the same wings (and look like Archangel Gabriel therefore), all crusaders wear the samy shiny armour, even if all of this looks like a complete parody (IMO).
    Aesthetic tastes seem to vary here a lot individually.
    We will see how it will turn out in the end.

    Thank you for voting in this thread anyway… 🙂



    That poor gobbo 😀 But yeah i also have to admit that this goblin wouldnt win a “best looking AoW unit of all time” contest 😀

    As for the marty or crusader i like them both. A half naked dwarf with a big weapon reminds me of the trollsayers from warhammer 😀  Because Im an armor addict i like everything what is fully armored so +1 for crusaders 🙂


    Brother JO

    I think goblin with shiny armor looks a bit odd if not more 😛 We are talking about goblins! 😀 They are not dwarves that can create magnificent crusader armor. Goblins usually create flawed armors and wear dirty and not so perfect looking armor 😛 I’m not even talking about goblin with angel wings.While I’ll not be a disappointed fan if I see them I would rather see race specific class units. 🙂


    ps. sry for my english if its not understandable 😛


    Steven Aus

    Your English is fine. 🙂  It’s not so easy having to express in a different language from the one you were taught when little. 🙂



    I am so happy for the release of another AoW game but I was skeptical about the deviation from magical spheres to this…

    Just seems odd to me, opinions are opinions though and I hope the quirky, silly direction they are taking this game gets them sales.



     “I was skeptical about the deviation from magical spheres to this…”

    What do you mean by that? Nobody said that there wont be magical spheres. In AoW 2 u have only 1 typre of leader(wizard). In AoW 3 there will be 6 and im sure u can also choose what kind of magic do u want to use. So it a win-win situation 🙂



    I want to see all the spells from aow2 and EVEN MORE PLEASE


    Steven Aus

    Did AoW:SM have any different spells from AoW2, apart from the spells relating to the shadow realm which won’t be in AoW3?



    Why Theocrat unit should be with white bird’s wings? Why wings at all? Halo around head/body and/or levitation for unit isn’t enough? Posture of the Buddha and levitation? Some recognizable artifact in hands (staff or something like that)?

    Should be in editor option to get rid of this ugly wings?



    Yeh aow2 had less spells and i think some got removed from Aow:Sm.

    Also, it just stroke me but, playing undead with the magic sphere of life was also silly. I didn’t see anyone whinning back then though :p (maybe it;s because you would be also in a great disadvantage for being silly xD)

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