Part 1 – Extending RPG Elements

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Part 1 – Extending RPG Elements

This topic contains 10 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  esvath 7 years ago.

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  • #200622

    The Mentat
    Member

    Age of Wonders is great in its mix of RPG and 4X-elements. However TBS games that are either focused on RPG (as the HOMM series) as well as games that are focused on 4X (as Endless Legends) still have an edge in their field. Imho it needs just very few efforts to reach the same level with AoW – without getting in conflict with the special characteristics that make AoW unique.

    This thread is about the RPG elements.

    The potential of the hero development

    With Elernal Lords some really useful upgrades for heroes were added: Arch Druids for example got regrowth and Rogues total awareness. Such skills transform them to decent melee units and add to the versatility of the heroes. But it doesn’t matter in what aspect you’re training a hero – its always possible to choose additionally the best skills from many other fields. This means many choices are still quite obvious and don’t depend on the situation of the current game.

    Half a year ago I suggested a skill tree to add some complexity but this implicates on the other hand that the development of the hero is a bit more restrictive because you can’t combine skills completely as you want. This is why I looked for a different idea that is just focused on increasing complexity without changing more than necessary.

    Skill Specialisations

    More deepness in developing heroes means, there have to be some big decisions for the player in every game – it shouldn’t be possible to get all the good skills until level 20! Therefore I suggest to include specialisations, that allow a hero to focus on melee combat or support abilities or any other area, that however are by far too expensive (in skill points) for a hybrid hero (with a mix of spells, leadership skills and support abilities).

    The skill mechanics itself wouldn’t be changed at all: There are still the same abilities with the same costs in points. The only change is the addition of a small skill tree component (and the UI). In the examples I added also racial abilities.

    Specializations for Warlord, Rogue and Sorcerer

    Consequences

    Specialisations improve the hero development in two ways: 1) Decisions get more strategic importance and 2) There’s more variation for the heroes of a class.
    A futher effect would be that heroes get much stronger beyond level 20 but that can be prevented by just manually limiting the hero level to 20.

    #200677

    ESCL
    Member

    Personally, I love it – heroes in AoW3 sadly lack character and diversity and I think your ideas could greatly improve that. It’s a big change though – and not really something that you often see in expansions or dlc – might be something for a mod one day though. I particularly like that the race of the hero actually seem to make a difference.

    #200679

    CHIEF DRUID
    Member

    it shouldn’t be possible to get all the good skills until level 20!

    Personally I disagree with this ^^^ this is what “ruins” fantasy rpg games putting restrictions on when you can have this or when you can have that by this level. I say get whatever you can get as long as you’re powerful enough to get it at any level. It’s more fun when you don’t have to wait on the good stuff by GRINDING through the crappy stuff just to get there. I say give stuff along the way….good rewards for good deeds and if you get more powerful than the next guy by randomness so beit. Everything in the world is not linear or the same from person to person. Keep it unique to EVERYONE….just put it out there and let everyone get it at their own level and pace. 😉

    #200694

    The Mentat
    Member

    it shouldn’t be possible to get all the good skills until level 20!

    Personally I disagree with this ^^^ this is what “ruins” fantasy rpg games putting restrictions on when you can have this or when you can have that by this level.

    I’m not sure if I understand your post correctly but I’m not suggesting that a hero should have level 20 to get a particular skill. I just think there should still exist valuable skills for a hero with level 20. And for heroes with lower level it’s even harder to choose…

    #200700

    I applaud your effort and thinking here Mentat.

    This is really good stuff.

    #200701

    CHIEF DRUID
    Member

    You post was sounding like you wanted only the exceptionally good stuff to only be available at level 20. I was saying no it should be available at ANY level if you have the smarts and the power and the randomness to get it. There should be no LEVEL at all when it comes to equipment and goodies. That way those that never see level 20 can see all the good stuff regardless of level. Based on SKILL not LEVEL. 😉

    #200733

    Fenraellis
    Member

    You post was sounding like you wanted only the exceptionally good stuff to only be available at level 20.

    it shouldn’t be possible to get all the good skills until level 20!

    Based upon his wording and my interpretation of such, he was suggesting that one should need to(and even benefit from) specialize heroes to get skills, such that actually getting all of the good skills would require a higher overall level worth of points, but there would be potentially more benefits to specializing a hero towards a particular path.
    Not that it would require a specific level of 20 to obtain said ‘good’ skills

    —–

    Speaking of which, I thought you did a good job on those theoretical skill concepts, by the way. Obviously specifics would need to be worked out, but the execution was nice.

    #200734

    Sartarius
    Member

    That would be totally amazing. Hero development is just plain atm, without any random. After 50++ games with the same hero type or leader you just know how to choose optimal combination of skills/stats for future hero levels. Yes, situational, but still. This is a great addition to how heroes would synergize with class and specialization combo. Though it is a lot of balancing and work though I really appreciate your idea and efforts you put.

    #200744

    it shouldn’t be possible to get all the good skills until level 20!

    Personally I disagree with this ^^^ this is what “ruins” fantasy rpg games putting restrictions on when you can have this or when you can have that by this level. I say get whatever you can get as long as you’re powerful enough to get it at any level. It’s more fun when you don’t have to wait on the good stuff by GRINDING through the crappy stuff just to get there. I say give stuff along the way….good rewards for good deeds and if you get more powerful than the next guy by randomness so beit. Everything in the world is not linear or the same from person to person. Keep it unique to EVERYONE….just put it out there and let everyone get it at their own level and pace.

    Agree with you! I mostly play short games and my heros almost never get a higher level than 14 and I even do not get this far in some games. So it already IS hard to get some/all skills before the game is already kind of decided.
    If you want to diversify you could ad mutually exclusive skills.

    #201033

    The Mentat
    Member

    I mostly play short games and my heros almost never get a higher level than 14 and I even do not get this far in some games.

    The main issue is not the hero beyond level 20 or 14 but the specialization of skills. It implicates that a Warlord melee hero has completely other characteristics than a Warlord Caster or Supporter.

    #201158

    esvath
    Member

    I love this idea, more so if the categorisation of skills leads to “advanced classes”.

    For example, Theocrat heroes can choose to be:
    — Paladin (focus on melee attack and self bless/debuff effect on attack)
    — Cleric (focus on casting points/spells/ranged attack)
    — Hierophant (focus on army buff)

    Each advanced class should give unique bonus. Thus, while Clerics can take melee attack skills like Paladin, they can never have the unique bonus that a Paladin has.

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