Please make lighting storm an area of effect.

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Balance Suggestions Please make lighting storm an area of effect.

This topic contains 36 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Ericridge 6 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 7 posts - 31 through 37 (of 37 total)
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  • #225477

    NINJEW
    Member

    Ah but it is broken.
    As i have been trying to explain.
    It isnt worth using.

    actually, as we have explained, it’s plenty worth using

    Sorcerors are mana starved from the get go.
    Unlike other classes we dont benifet from army upgrade, moral boost’s, good buff and debuffs(we get buff’s and debuff’s but other classes just get better buff’s and debuff’s)

    not true. the mana from sites upgrade gives any sorcerer far, far more mana than they will ever need past turn 30. stunning supports is the single best army buff in the entire game, hands down, and then just when you thought it couldn’t get any better they also all get phase and projectile resistance. sorcerer is not hurting for army boosts, the only class that’s going to outdo them there is a lategame warlord.

    No other class is as mana starved as a sorceror.

    oh, just how wrong you are…

    try playing rogue some time buddy. sorcerer gets mana by the bucketfuls compared to rogue’s mana needs.

    There is a reason why theocrat’s, warlords and necromancers are the easiest classes to play.

    actually it’s sorcerer. like full stop. sorc is the easiest class straight up, no contest.

    Also if it aint broken dont fix it can be countered with:
    Improvement is what drive’s out technologie.
    After all why improve on cellphone’s if they aint broken.
    Or why invent foto’s when we have painting’s.

    this is true for technology, not video game balance. this is a really dumb argument. inventing photos won’t ruin paintings for everyone if it turns out photos suck, and everyone is perfectly happy with paintings, and they’re really not so much photographs as discovering some slight new pigments of color for the paint you use.

    I am quitting this debate before i lose an other favorite game.

    if some words on the internet are enough to make you hate a game you are probably a child

    #225478

    NINJEW
    Member

    seriously though sorcerer has it incredibly easy when it comes to mana. i can say for sure that dreadnoughts and rogues will both find themselves starving for mana way more often than a sorc will past the early game.

    #225589

    Fenraellis
    Member

    you can cast it and go into battle with full cp in the same turn if you preload it the turn before.

    I honestly don’t think I’ve even seen it used in any other way… Well, perhaps one turn in advance for some reason, but never more than that.

    #225691

    malaficus
    Member

    Ah but it is broken.
    As i have been trying to explain.
    It isnt worth using.

    actually, as we have explained, it’s plenty worth using

    And i countered it by pointing out those where ideal conditations.
    Aka almost never happening.

    Sorcerors are mana starved from the get go.
    Unlike other classes we dont benifet from army upgrade, moral boost’s, good buff and debuffs(we get buff’s and debuff’s but other classes just get better buff’s and debuff’s)

    not true. the mana from sites upgrade gives any sorcerer far, far more mana than they will ever need past turn 30. stunning supports is the single best army buff in the entire game, hands down, and then just when you thought it couldn’t get any better they also all get phase and projectile resistance. sorcerer is not hurting for army boosts, the only class that’s going to outdo them there is a lategame warlord.
    [/quote]
    Stun has been nerfed to the point it almost never works(meaby i am unlucky but it seem to have a 90% fail chance)
    The support upgrade is one of the saving grace’s of the sorceror i never denied that.
    Also warlord blood honor is the worst moral boos in the game.
    [sarcasm] congatulations.
    For the privlege of lossing units you get 200 moral bonus.
    I am sure that will make up for the loss of a reuseable’s expensive to buy and taking time to replace tool.
    [/sarcasm]
    necromancers get 400 on all there units via a single research(on top of ghouls already ignoring 90% of all moral modifiers).
    Theocrat has chapalian, pay abosulution and armagandan(ignore’s all negative moral modifiers)
    Dreadnought has imperial autority and supress nature.
    Rogue’s have bards, iron grip(city spell), and the ability to criple your entire empire’s moral.

    No other class is as mana starved as a sorceror.

    oh, just how wrong you are…

    try playing rogue some time buddy. sorcerer gets mana by the bucketfuls compared to rogue’s mana needs.
    [/quote]
    I played rogue quiet a few times.
    Easy wins too.
    Yes a rogue gets less mana income then a sorceror(after getting the mana empire upgrade anyway) but it also spends alot less of it.
    Yes summoning crow every turn will keep your mana low(this is true for all scouts)
    However a sorceror has to spend mana on phatasm warrior’s,(80 mana per cast and 8 mana upkeep)
    A scoundrel cost i believe 60 gold
    I dont remember, i do remember the ease of which i replace there losses.
    As i pointed out before unlike army classes towns dont start with mana production.
    You need atleast a shrine.
    That is atleast two turns spend on making a town contribute to the sorceror army.
    Late game sorceror does have alot of mana.
    So does everyone else and unlike the sorceror they have powerfull troops.
    Face it mana serpents and fantastic summons arent as good as the phatasm warrior.
    So that is basicly two summons worse then a lower tier one.

    There is a reason why theocrat’s, warlords and necromancers are the easiest classes to play.

    actually it’s sorcerer. like full stop. sorc is the easiest class straight up, no contest.
    [/quote]
    For me sorceror is the only class i strugle with.
    It might be easy for you.
    But for me it is like trying to pilot a nuclear supmarine with a xbox controler(not a game version of a nuclear submarine but a real one)

    Also if it aint broken dont fix it can be countered with:
    Improvement is what drive’s out technologie.
    After all why improve on cellphone’s if they aint broken.
    Or why invent foto’s when we have painting’s.

    this is true for technology, not video game balance. this is a really dumb argument. inventing photos won’t ruin paintings for everyone if it turns out photos suck, and everyone is perfectly happy with paintings, and they’re really not so much photographs as discovering some slight new pigments of color for the paint you use.
    [/quote]
    Adding an area of effect doesnt do much then make lighting storm better.
    It wont ruin it for those who dont like the area of effect.
    It can still be used in the mathers discribed.

    Age of wonders 3 worked right from the get go.
    However the gameplay was horrible.
    If they hadnt spend so much path’s improving it, it would never be this good.
    Yet you are saying that they shoudnt make a game beter because it isnt broken?

    I am quitting this debate before i lose an other favorite game.

    if some words on the internet are enough to make you hate a game you are probably a child

    [/quote]
    Cute.
    No my hate for the game come’s from the lack of proper magic system.
    I have games i enjoyed immensly that i can no longer play because one part of it drove me nuts.
    I want to avoid the same thing happening to age of wonders 3

    Once again you dont provide proper counter arguement and just claim i am wrong.

    #225718

    Fenraellis
    Member

    necromancers get 400 on all there units via a single research(on top of ghouls already ignoring 90% of all moral modifiers).

    +300, actually, which barring other sources of Morale(Halfling Reanimators/Halfing RG4/Shrine to the Wizard King), will only get Ghouls to the first tier of boosted Morale. Also, it only applies to Ghouls, and thus Heroes, Class Units, and other general Undead and non-Ghouls do not benefit. It’s good, but not nearly as amazing as you’re trying to make it out to be.

    Yes a rogue gets less mana income then a sorceror(after getting the mana empire upgrade anyway) but it also spends alot less of it.

    NINJEW is very likely referring the the multiple useful, but expensive, offensive city enchantments that a Rogue has access to. Not to mention casting Iron Grip on nearly all of your cities. Although the latter will generally at least pay itself off overall, even if it’s likely a net negative for Mana income.

    #225758

    NINJEW
    Member

    And i countered it by pointing out those where ideal conditations.
    Aka almost never happening.

    breaking news:

    dome of protection is pointless. it’s only useful if you’re being hit by strategic spells, and useless the other 90% of the time!

    dread omen is useless. it’s only useful when you’re about to attack an enemy city, and useless the other 90% of the time!

    enchanted walls is useless. it’s only useful when you’re about to have one of your cities attacked, and useless the other 90% of the time!

    what a poor argument

    Stun has been nerfed to the point it almost never works(meaby i am unlucky but it seem to have a 90% fail chance)

    plainly not true, stun is still incredibly powerful

    I played rogue quiet a few times.
    Easy wins too.
    Yes a rogue gets less mana income then a sorceror(after getting the mana empire upgrade anyway) but it also spends alot less of it.
    Yes summoning crow every turn will keep your mana low(this is true for all scouts)
    However a sorceror has to spend mana on phatasm warrior’s,(80 mana per cast and 8 mana upkeep)
    A scoundrel cost i believe 60 gold
    I dont remember, i do remember the ease of which i replace there losses.
    As i pointed out before unlike army classes towns dont start with mana production.
    You need atleast a shrine.
    That is atleast two turns spend on making a town contribute to the sorceror army.
    Late game sorceror does have alot of mana.
    So does everyone else and unlike the sorceror they have powerfull troops.
    Face it mana serpents and fantastic summons arent as good as the phatasm warrior.
    So that is basicly two summons worse then a lower tier one.

    i suspect you don’t understand anything about playing rogue. incite revolt is 40 mana per turn per enemy city. guild of shadow thieves is 20 mana per turn per enemy city. iron grip is 20 mana per turn per owned city. this is a level of mana expenditure that sorcerer, and no one else either, can hope to compete with. that’s before even thinking about crows or other strategic spells.

    For me sorceror is the only class i strugle with.
    It might be easy for you.
    But for me it is like trying to pilot a nuclear supmarine with a xbox controler(not a game version of a nuclear submarine but a real one)

    it’s not just my opinion, it’s a pretty universial opinion, probably since sorc army composition consists of “supports, more supports, and phantasms” instead of anything complicated, and summons being able to be dropped right to the frontlines eliminating logistical reinforcement headaches. it’s just all around simpler to play.

    Age of wonders 3 worked right from the get go.
    However the gameplay was horrible.
    If they hadnt spend so much path’s improving it, it would never be this good.
    Yet you are saying that they shoudnt make a game beter because it isnt broken?

    actually it was broken from the get go, balance-wise, and they’ve been working hard to make it a balanced and fun game since then. only very recently has sorc not been considered unilaterally the only class worth playing competitively (special mention to AD). gameplay was fine, and the basic gameplay hasn’t really been changed much since then. all the improvements in fun have mostly been the result of better balancing work.

    Adding an area of effect doesnt do much then make lighting storm better.
    It wont ruin it for those who dont like the area of effect.
    It can still be used in the mathers discribed.

    lightning storm doesn’t need to be better.

    No my hate for the game come’s from the lack of proper magic system.
    I have games i enjoyed immensly that i can no longer play because one part of it drove me nuts.
    I want to avoid the same thing happening to age of wonders 3

    i don’t see why a debate would change that at all, or why that would be at all a relevant thing to bring up.

    #225761

    Ericridge
    Member

    wow the game balance changes on xl no way

    paging ericridge to comment on sorc xl potential i guess

    in any case, “don’t fix what ain’t broken” is the reason you’ve just been hearing “this isn’t bad.” you have to prove that there’s a problem in the first place before we even start to discuss the solution. no reason to waste time and effort and potentially create more problems to fix a problem that may or may not exist (so far overwhelming opinion is “does not exist” to boot)

    Late game Sorcerer is quite incredible. You can summon entire armies out of thin air. There’s amazing things you can do with 400+ CP and age of magic active. And then send that large summoned army full of floaters/fliers towards the backlines. While your frontlines could be mostly racials + Apprentices with tough tier 4s here and there as needed.

    I’ve conjured up entire stacks in one turn and had them go on rick n rolling mission by trolling the backline cities. lol

    One Eldritch Horror for each five apprentices is about fine. Because you will be more dependent on your apprentices. And they are tier 2 which means 8gpt and you can eventually win the attrition war if you can keep your stuns landing and landing ad infinitude even when opponent brings entire stacks of tier 4s.

    High Elf Sorcerer due to racial governance but you will have to choose between having super high CP or having supports that ignore LOS penalties. But either one is quite great.

    Human Sorcerer is another choice for top pick as sorcerer in XL. By picking humans you are going with mass quantity approach, they will eventually eclipse high elves if they manage to grow more than high elves do by having even more cities’ great palaces built to defeat the high elves in CP count. But High Elf apprentices will be better at fighting than yours and there’s nothing you can do about it because elves is perfect.

    Lightning storm is something to be used sparingly as needed basis. You will be only using it to damage the stacks to tilt the battle into your favor. But if you have allies, then lightning storm can become more powerful. And there is the option of selecting destruction mastery to make your lightning storm more painful.

    You need to understand that there is stuff in aow3 that isn’t meant to be seen every single day but from time to time. Alot of people don’t understand this and attempt to make everything fit into medium sized maps for pvp that finishes very fast.

    To take down a endgame sorcerer on XL map?

    Assassinate the Leader.

    Bring Stun resistance, preferably 100% if you can manage it, failing that.. as high as resist as possible.

    Lacking those? Endgame damage spells like hellfire with fire resistant units as combo.

    Only send conventional armies when you exhaust sorcerer’s CP by forcing him to cast spells at double price when he is not present. Go for numerous battles, not a single large epic battle. One powerful spell is face melting when used in single epic battle but a waste against 18 random units on one wide front where there is a lot of battles taking place.

    Sorcerer caught you with pants down? Maybe dumb luck will help you out otherwise you be in for a world of pain.
    Example of dumb luck, like a stack of galleons happened to be in right place at right time.
    http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/has-werlac-basically-lost/

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