Pre-Order

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This topic contains 24 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  Viperswhip 8 years, 6 months ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
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  • #12024

    DDonut
    Member

    Will there be the availability to get early access into the game like some games on steam right now (for example: Planetary Annihilation and Prison Architect)? Or will u go for a single release date without pre-orders?

    #12025

    AwesomeLion
    Member

    Would love to know this as well. It’s also possible to charge extra to let people play it even earlier and give some extra content such as the before mentioned games. Maybe include a season pass or something (I’d recommend not offering anything exclusive to pre-orders because that seems to be unpopular).

    To sum it up, I’d pay twice to get to play the game today then what it would cost at release date =D

    #12026

    jimmy
    Member

    @ddonut, Early Access is meant for games that have iterative releases. This is not something we will be doing for AoW3, for two main reasons:
    a) Doing Early Access means we will need to regularly release new builds of the game, which adds workload and reduces the time we can work on the game itself.
    b) In Early Access the product is still very unpolished, which might lead people to believe this is what the game will be. We want gamers to have a good first impression of the game.

    If we are doing a pre-order it will be closer to release, probably one or two months in advance. We are looking at bonus items, but what those will be we can’t say yet.

    #12027

    Max Power
    Member

    Pre-order bonuses/discounts are a cheap way to boost sales and shouldn’t be supported. It’s only a good strategy, if your game sucks or is much over-hyped and you want your audience to buy before finding out.

    #12029

    AwesomeLion
    Member

    Thanks for the reply Jimmy =)

    Can I take this as that there won’t be any beta’s then? It’s good to know, that way you prepare yourself that you have to wait until release regardless =3

    Thanks for answering the unpopular questions!

    #12031

    Kane
    Member

    I think it was mentioned earlier on the forums that there will be beta and the community will be participating in it.

    #12034

    BlaneckW
    Member

    If they want to put out a pre-order I’ll go ahead and buy it regardless of any gimmicks.

    But not on Steam. Unless that’s where multiplayer will be…

    #12037

    NEHZ
    Member

    Pre-order bonuses/discounts are a cheap way to boost sales and shouldn’t be supported. It’s only a good strategy, if your game sucks or is much over-hyped and you want your audience to buy before finding out.

    It’s a way to focus your sales to the release date of the game, which can increase the chance of hype and may improve your exposure. It also encourages people to buy your game before the price cuts start setting in.

    #12039

    AwesomeLion
    Member

    Either way, I’m a sure pre-order, bonuses or not <3

    #12041

    Max Power
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Max Power wrote:</div>
    Pre-order bonuses/discounts are a cheap way to boost sales and shouldn’t be supported. It’s only a good strategy, if your game sucks or is much over-hyped and you want your audience to buy before finding out.

    It’s a way to focus your sales to the release date of the game, which can increase the chance of hype and may improve your exposure. It also encourages people to buy your game before the price cuts start setting in.

    Yes. It wouldn’t be done with almost every new release these days, if it wasn’t profitable. I still think it’s disrespectful towards your customers

    – if you remove finished content from the game and call it bonus material (aka day one DLC).
    – if you grant a 10% discount on a release date price, that, for all we know, may have been raised by 10%, just so we can have our supposed discount.
    – if you “reward” blind trust in the product.

    I’ve seen too many over-hyped, eventually disappointing titles and I’m not gonna preorder again. If AoW3 turns out to be a solid sequel, I will probably buy it around the release date. If that means, I have to pay extra and miss out on “bonus content”, I might as well just wait for the sales. It can work that way, too 😉

    I just hope the people behind AoW3 are better than this.

    #12043

    More importantly, will there be a beta? Triumph has some hard core and very loyal fans, people like myself who’ve been buying and playing their products since 1999, and would love to get involved. It doesn’t need to be the whole game, just a decent sized map for use as a demo, so we can see how things work before we commit, and Triumph can see what works and doesn’t work, from a fresh perspective (can’t see the wood for the trees and all that).

    There are some pretty radical changes, which is understandable seeing as even back in 2004/5 the developers said that if they ever got the chance to make AoW3 it’d be different,. and not just a visual upgrade. Personally speaking, not only am I ok with most of these, I’m actually pretty excited, HOWEVER, some, not so much, and judging by the length of the ‘fliers land in tactical’ thread, I’m not alone.

    So, PLEASE (pretty please, tevreden met een kers op bovenkant) give us a beta/ demo, and while you’re thinking about it, watch this:

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7710-Fun-Priorities

    And tell us if your new features are for fun, or to reach a market.

    #12049

    Edi
    Member

    Warning: A very long post coming up!

    There are pros and cons to allow early access for people who preorder.

    Pros:
    – free beta testing and bug reports
    – may catch some serious game breaking things that would not otherwise be caught
    – often seen as a positive by eager fans

    Cons:
    – need for iterative releases
    – useless or spurious bug reports on features that are either not complete, or based on false assumptions
    – serious need for extra scrupulous community management
    – dev time required for above

    It depends on what sort of project you’re doing too.

    Triumph has a comparatively large team where the roles are well defined and everyone has a set of responsibilities. If I understand correctly, there is also some redundancy in terms of people being able to crosshandle each others’ roles to some extent. This makes a regimented, systematic beta testing of most features fairly painless and ensures that most big bugs are caught fairly easily.

    Note that I say most, because almost certainly after the game comes out, somebody will have an exotic hardware configuration that craps itself when running AoW due to a software/driver/hardware/third party application incompatibility, or someone else will find a way to utilize something in the game in a manner the devs did not envision, which will leave one or more things in a shambles that the developers will then need to rush to fix.

    Even so, Age of Wonders 3 is looking to be a case of more cooks not improving the dish and quite possibly mucking it all up if they were to open access to everyone who preordered. A certain beta I took part in was a complete shambles. Out of 60+ or 100+ people who signed up for beta, maybe 10% were capable of following basic instructions, reading existing topics and issues, understanding what they were told in response or generally formulating anything useful or coherent. The signal to noise ratio was, to put it politely, abysmal.

    ***********

    A certain other beta I took part in was another story. Small development team, with one guy for programming, one guy for content, a third one for some auxiliary content and two others who did the documentation. There were more beta testers involved and a lot of showstopping issues were caught and duly annihilated at various stages of the testing.

    The later stages of the development version were released to those who preordered, which gave a substantially higher base for beta testing what was an almost release condition game. And sure enough, all those people, especially the long term veterans who knew every trick in the book on how to break stuff, found ways to break things in ways that had simply not been possible to test with the limited pool of testers. So they shook out more bugs that were then squashed and the eventual release version was better for it. Bringing them in earlier than that would have been asking for trouble, though.

    ***********

    When considering AoW3 and based on what I have seen, an open beta for preorders would be more akin to the first example than the second, especially since the already established customer / fan base is large enough that there would be a deluge of applicants. It would be inevitable.

    Triumph has a track record of doing very good work and testing things pretty well and they have in the past involved active community members in their projects. So I suspect they already have a shortlist of people they would like to see in any limited beta. We know now that for example Swolte from Heaven Games was in on AoW3 development long before it was publicly mentioned anywhere and there were probably others. If and when they expand the beta test pool, those are the people who are likely called first before any greater enlargement. A larger public / open beta would also necessitate the greater community engagement, which would more or less mean some people being drafted just to keep some semblance of order among the community.

    So I applaud the decision by Triumph Studios to do things by the numbers and follow the plan that Jimmy van der Have outlined above. It may not be what a lot of people want to hear, but ultimately I believe it to be the wiser course of action that will cause the least amount of headaches for the developers. This in turn is likely to lead to an overall more polished product, which is far better in the long run. You only get to make a first impression once and in today’s gaming market, you simply cannot underestimate that. And no, seeing a few demo videos and such does not really count, because watching a video of gameplay and trying the gameplay of a working version are two viscerally different things.

    I hope I didn’t bore you to tears with this, but I wanted to bring across many of the different aspects involved in a project the size and scope of AoW3. It is not an easy thing to manage what they are doing, even if it may look like it to those who have not experienced it.

    I felt this needed to be said, not least because Triumph Studios and its representatives cannot really say the same things in this much detail here because it would quite possibly ruffle too many feathers and possibly come across as condescending and scoring a PR own goal. I have no affiliation with them, other than being a long time fan, so I can come right out and say this without similar constraints.

    Note that this post is also not meant to cast any aspersions on anyone, it merely a relation of various personal experiences and an interpretation of the position of Triumph Studios as far as I can see from where I’m standing.

    For myself, I’ll patiently wait for the release. I have enough and then some to occupy me in the meanwhile.

    Best regards to everyone. 🙂

    #12051

    Early access is for devs who really need money now in order to pay for continued development and it really does make for slow development process. It’s not something you do unless you have to.

    As for pre-orders I’m not a fan simply because a pre-order offer literally translates into “you should buy our game before you either realize it’s bad or that you don’t like it” but I also know pre-orders are going to continue because they work. I’m also probably going to be a hypocrite and pre-order AoWIII anyway.

    #12056

    Red Key
    Member

    So I suspect they already have a shortlist of people they would like to see in any limited beta.

    What if Beta

    jk couldn’t resist. Not true… or is it?

    #12057

    Kane
    Member

    any idea in which month it will be released and any confirmation about beta? 🙁

    i am dying waiting…

    #12066

    AwesomeLion
    Member

    Random speculation suggest march (current release plan is 2014 1Q spring. Spring is march to may, 1Q is jan-march).

    This is obviously highly speculative =)

    #12072

    BlaneckW
    Member

    I only need to know one thing: will the campaign have a difficult mode for veterans. Not that the game won’t be worth buying otherwise, and I’d still consider pre-ordering in any case…

    Now I know it can be hard to make a map/campaign easy for noobs and botherable for others, but AOW1 did it’s harder mode well enough with hordes of units. But the Shadow Magic campaign was specifically easy. It says so in the campaign. Probably was made that way for all the new people who would be coming in for the advertised growing multiplayer community. But AOW2 Wizard’s Throne on hard mode can be bitingly hard for noobs and that’s the way I like it. It’s just not bitingly hard now that I am replaying it… and I only play games on hard mode.

    #12073

    As long as it is challenging in a way that makes sense, and not just arbitrary.

    #12074

    BlaneckW
    Member

    Well I’ve never known AOW series to be arbitrary.

    #12117

    Swaigstiks
    Member

    I rarely use pre-order option just to support my favourite developers. E.g. I have bought Dominions 4 in 2 months before release but I never played it that time and still don’t play it now… 🙂 Until a couple of patches. But I know that my humble mite helped people to buy hamburger and cola while they were polishing games for me.
    So the pre-order option seems mutually beneficial.

    #12121

    AwesomeLion
    Member

    I’m all for pre-orders as it helps the developers project sales and values of their IP. I think pre-order that includes beta access is only natural development because again it helps with the projected sales and it’s also an incentive for players to actually pre-order the game (outside of pre-order bonuses).

    Pre-order bonuses I’m a bit.. Miffy about. I don’t like stuff being exclusive to one or the other. Personally I’m a sure pre-order so it’s not like I will miss out on any bonuses, but I don’t like it that other’s won’t get the same opportunity to get said bonuses if they don’t pre-order. I mean, why would I be happy that another person won’t get the same fun and full experience as me?

    Nothing gets me more agitated when Microsoft announces that “these X item bonuses and extra content will be exclusive to X-box players only, Playstation player’s wont get it no matter what” and people at the announcement actually cheer over this. I’m a x-box gamer, but why would I not want PS players to get the content I do. The more that get to enjoy the game the developers worked on the better!

    To sum it up: No to exclusive unobtainable bonus items with pre-orders, yes to beta access or bonus items other players can get by other means (pay for them or whatever).

    #12126

    Kane
    Member

    I really hope pre order with beta acess will be available by january

    #12128

    AwesomeLion
    Member

    I really hope pre order with beta acess will be available by january

    That would be awesome! However they did mention that they weren’t going to do any early access for this game. If they ment just early access as how other games have given early access to pre-orders a few days in advance or access to alpha version or if they actually ment no beta as well, that would have to be cleared up by them because I didn’t get a reply on that bit last time =3

    #12203

    poerk55
    Member

    Too many times have I fallen into the pre-order trap, so im done pre-ordering. I don’t care how excited I am about this game.

    #12229

    Viperswhip
    Member

    Too many times have I fallen into the pre-order trap, so im done pre-ordering. I don’t care how excited I am about this game.

    I agree, but…it depends on the price point of the game and how bored I am at the time. Also, I like Steam, but then I can count on one hand the number of times my internet has been down in the last few years and it’s always been because some ass drove their car into a cable box.

    I don’t think you need to remove content, but having little bonuses that don’t break the game is not a big deal and a bit of a thank you to people who believe in and support your product beforehand. Think of the pre-order bonuses for Dragon Age Origins, nothing that you would probably use throughout the game, or Guild Wars, same thing.

    I don’t like Day 1 DLC though, which I think Dragon Age did with the Collector’s Edition and Stone Prisoner or something like that. I bought the edition that included it beforehand, but I was pretty sure I was going to love the game. In most other cases it bothers me a lot.

    But a small item pack is no big deal.

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