Preparation of next PBEM tournament

We’ve moved over to the paradox forums. Please come visit us there to discuss:
You can still read the collective wisdom - and lolz - of the community here, but posting is no longer possible.

Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Preparation of next PBEM tournament

This topic contains 87 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  Hiliadan 2 years, 9 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 88 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #242000

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Let’s start discussing the settings and the balance (maybe better to open a new thread about that) for the next PBEM tournament.

    What I would suggest:
    – balance mod for Necro, XP, conversion
    – larger map (between small and medium)
    – less sites
    – heroes capped to lvl 15

    I am not sure about outpost start. What I like with Settler start is that it boosts Goblins, which need it.

    Regarding less sites, the reasoning is simple: there is currently way too much gold to be made by plundering sites and it can sustain a good army without any cities. So it really helps converting binge.
    I did that in a game against cbower and survived 20-30 turns without any cities, with 3 full stack and I even had Weathy Empire (1000+ gold).
    Ok, less sites mean less fights to do but that’s not a valid argument for me. We have too many sites and that is bad for balance (too much XP, too much gold).

    Regarding conversion, I think we need to increase its cost and make it available at higher level, not nerf its attack strength or its duration.

    I asked help to Markymark to compute the stats from current tournament (as of today) and we will post it here later.

    • This topic was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by  Hiliadan.
    #242029

    kwibus
    Member

    To start off I’d like to mention that I won’t be participating in the next duel tournament. I’m not really into duels.
    Still I’m supporting a PBEM balance mod. Not only for the tournament, but also for other PBEM games.

    I take the CIV5 community as an example. Where the online community organised a steamgroup (NO QUITERS) most of all to get rid of quiters and bad behaviour. Pretty much what we have with http://www.the-battlefield.com/aow3. They also use the No Quiters Mod which balances the game better for multiplay. Well for this game we need to balance PBEM quite a bit.

    Right now it’s a rat race who can convert/ghoul/charm/seduce the most units in the least time. gg he wins. Economy has become totally irrelevant.

    Personally I’d remove all charming/converting, but that would completely wreck the balance as well so that needs a lot more thought. Necros can’t live without ghouling, but if other classes didn’t have it anymore and Necros can only ghoul with death bringers it might become ok’ish.

    Less treasure sites: Not very enthousiastic as it’s part of the entertainment the game gives. Then again I understand why you suggest it. You could as well lower the loot they give?

    max lvl 15 heroes. Sure! Easy to implement with the rules.

    Larger maps for duels. Well I don’t play duels so I’m not going to give my opinion on it:D

    #242035

    xlnt
    Member

    What Kwibus said – except that i’ll play in each tourney i can get (;

    IMO there should be more sites – the game is already too boring as it is and having things to do is always better than just passing the turn, right?

    Balancing the mind control abilities should be done by Triumph – it has been implemented deep into the game by designers and analysts and testers and i can’t see an easy fix. How can you just take away this from the Rogues or the Druids? How is the Theo going to win player battles with a tier3 walker/healer that does nothing. Why would i prefer a lower stats unit with mind-control immunity before a stronger one when i know one of the best perks is now doing a lot less… My advice as a professional software tester is to not change this and accept the game for what it is and complain a lot to Triumph and let them fix it (:

    Larger maps is not a problem i ever had, but better maps should be nice. Some work on the templates will be good to have. May be create zones with different values for sites, dwellings and all that, so that you can’t get a dungeon close to you and rip it open turn1 or go get 2-3 fortresses each giving you +10/20 research (which is way too good and easy to do if RNGesus is on your side)

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by  xlnt.
    #242038

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Less treasure sites: Not very enthousiastic as it’s part of the entertainment the game gives. Then again I understand why you suggest it. You could as well lower the loot they give?

    It would be a good fix too but not sure how it can be modded.

    Personally I’d remove all charming/converting, but that would completely wreck the balance as well so that needs a lot more thought. Necros can’t live without ghouling, but if other classes didn’t have it anymore and Necros can only ghoul with death bringers it might become ok’ish.

    I don’t agree. Theo needs Convert. Same for Rogue, that’s part of the class.
    Making it arrive later so that conversion does not replace production, yes. Removing it entirely, no.
    We don’t have the full stats yet but Rogue and Theo were definitely not over-represented in the tournament so I don’t think they need a big nerf.
    For Druid, it’s really not an issue, you only convert animals.

    With slower XP gains and moving the convert abilities to level 11 or 13 and increasing their cost, you should not get convert before turn 20-30 and that’s more or less the time when you can start producing T3 if you focused on them.
    If we want to slow it further, we need either to increase the cost even more (because I think we cannot make abilities appear at higher level than 13) or increase the XP requirements for heroes to level up (as JJ started to do with his mod).

    #242040

    Zaskow
    Member

    Balancing the mind control abilities should be done by Triumph – it has been implemented deep into the game by designers and analysts and testers and i can’t see an easy fix.

    Triumphs had already done some balance changes. I’m not happy with result personally.

    How can you just take away this from the Rogues or the Druids? How is the Theo going to win player battles with a tier3 walker/healer that does nothing.

    In live MP most convert abilities are garbage.

    My advice as a professional software tester is to not change this and accept the game for what it is and complain a lot to Triumph and let them fix it (:

    These complains go to nowhere. There is new game from Triumphs on the way, you know. I think further development of AoW should concentrate in hand of players. Triumphs agree with this and released modding tools.

    It would be a good fix too but not sure how it can be modded.

    Actually, convert abilities is moddable in wide area.

    #242041

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    If you think about it, all problems in the game, especially those of conversion, are not based on imbalanced units, but on heroes somehow doing what units are supposed to do.

    This is MOSTLY a problem of level-up and abilities, but in the end also one of artifacts delivering the same.

    The game gets “out of balance bounds” when your “explorer armies” (mostly involving 2 or even 3 heroes) start converting conveniently (you don’t need the units) and early.

    There has been enough said about XP gaining and hero-leveling (and availability of articfacts), but maybe we can do something about the ability themselves.

    Befriend Animal is obviously fine: it works only on animals. Which makes it useful, but not overpoweringly so.

    Charm has attack 9, making it a risky proposition, even though it works short range. Also Bards are very early available, so I don’t think Charm is a problem.

    Seduce has attack 12 and is significantly better than Charm. However, seduce isn’t a Hero ability, and Heroes can get it only via artifact. I’m not really sure this really needs addressing, but you MIGHT even add it to the list of hero abilities AND give Succubi a stat boost, if Seduce would work only on members of the same race…

    Convert has attack 11. It is also a hero ability – which makes sense. You may move the ability to L9 and/or give it prerequisites.

    Control Dead is fine as well with attack 8.

    That leaves the effect of Greater Reanimate Dead and Inflict Ghoul Curse, and while those above need only minimal adjustment, if any, those two are really out of bounds.

    #242051

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Hiliadan wrote:

    It would be a good fix too but not sure how it can be modded.

    Actually, convert abilities is moddable in wide area.

    I meant changing the loot from treasure sites / the value of items in gold and mana. We would need to divide by 2 for instance: all items give half less gold and mana than now if you sell them and the alternative option of taking items give half less gold when you clear sites.

    I agree with your analysis JJ. And regarding the solutions for Inflict Ghoul Curse and Greater Reanimate Undead, solutions have been debated for long. The best quick fix is the one from Zaskow but I think we need a bigger one.
    However, before discussing this, we need to agree more or less on other things such as map settings and what we aim for (like at what turns should convert abilities start working).

    #242057

    cbower
    Member

    Map stuff

    – larger map (between small and medium)

    this should be an easy mod to do

    map size

    SMALL
    h49L65
    medium
    h73L97

    so we just pick a number in between and create a new map type.

    Also I think we should create a game flow that sets all the basic settings to the PBEM tourney settings. So like geography, cities, roads, etc.

    Also I think we should standardize the expansion city. Right now you get 1-2 of vary sizes at varying distances. We could reduce the randomness there.

    Also We could consider altering start sites on players thrones. Personally in PBEM I have never ever been able to use a mythic building or others really much at all. A whole part of the game we never get to play.

    Anyways I could make the custom map, and profile, and other map settings changes pretty easy.

    #242058

    cbower
    Member

    Convert units and power leveling are the two things that most unbalance PBEM in my opinion. I am playing AIX right now, and I converted an Angel on about turn 7. He is probably going to lose because of that alone. Hiliadan when we first played I basically won b/c I converted 2 t4 giants. Spirit Seeker destroyed me in a game because he converted many t3 Spiders and leveled early. War breeds and trolls are plenty, and easy to get. If your not pulling t4 or high powered t3’s on a short map, you can’t defend against home. Even think about when you have played gab, he usually has some good converts in that army, he comes together with 3 stacks pretty quick and many are not in his class, so he got them through converting. (Not saying gab wins only because of converting, he is a very smart player, just point out how helpless a big converted army makes you)

    Don’t we want to be able to both play our class strengths and play competitively? I want to be able to build machines, and Exalteds, summon animals, and so on. I never get to under the current settings. I just convert a nasty army and then smash. I do it not because it’s fun but because it is profitable. I just don’t want to do it anymore, if you guys do thats fine, it’s just not my thing.

    Now Power leveling is hard to solve, but convert is not.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by  cbower.
    #242060

    cbower
    Member

    JJ I disagree on animal and charm, I have abused and seen them abused to great effect, they can be very powerful. Although animal takes more luck and time.

    #242063

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Well, you don’t want to decide games by single gold pieces.
    Anyway, you have to see cause and effect. Befreind ANimal isn’t the problem – the problem is that Spiders have too many HPs. In other words, Spiders have a very good ability, and therefore they should be fragile. That’s not so different from Wisps. Imo, Spiders have Tier x 5 HPs too much.

    If Charm was OP, you’d win with Bards. It’s not Charm, though, but the fact thatit’s convenient to get it directly onto your hero (at the front) for 3 points – you don’t have to start producing them AND you don’t have to waste turns by bringing them to the front either. (Also, a Level X hero is a much better unit than a Bard when Charm does NOT work.

    I’m probably not as good a player as you, but I DO use Mystical city stuff – albeit, as with race governance, there are good and bad ones.

    In any case, if you think about it, it’s HEROES that are the problem, because you can upgrade them with really powerful abilities on the fly.

    #242064

    cbower
    Member

    I agree totally.Charm is fine on bards, I would only suggest heroes don’t have convert abilities, and leave the rest alone.

    #242065

    cbower
    Member

    I think my problem with increasing level requirement or cost of powerful hero abilities like convert and inflict ghoul curse is that we don’t solve the convert problem and we make the power leveling issue worse. Convert got moved from level 5 to level 7, every level it goes up widens the gap between when the ability is available to xm farmers and non xp farmers.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by  cbower.
    • This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by  cbower.
    #242069

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Inflict Ghoul Curse is a different beat entirely. PBEM leftover I’m still playing with Necro my hero ghouled two Naga Matriarchs and then a Manticore Rider, two Phalanxes and a Berserker in 2 battles and 1 turn converting a full new stack with one T4, 4 T3s and 1 T2.
    That’s just insane.

    Anyway – yes, problem is heroes and the way they behave and can be boosted. Maybe we need to change the way they get XP entirely?

    #242078

    Starfleck
    Member

    Probably a fundamental issue with heroes overall, is that they basically always get abilities that belong to tier 3 & 4 units way earlier than you are able to build those higher tier units. Low-tech combat typically doesn’t happen at all outside of clearing nodes, and conversion is strong strategically in all instances. Every convert is technically 1/6th to half (depending on strength) of a full army. Even one unit converted shifts the strength of the armies from 1:1 to almost 2:3. Some race/class choices, with unlucky hero spawns, give no ability to convert until you make something in the arcane item forge. But I digress.

    Essentially, I’d like to propose the simpler solution of drastically slowing hero/leader XP gain somehow to give empire economies time to catch up. Either that or speed up everything else with some sort of blanket cost reduction (or production boost). I’d probably do a little of both, personally.

    I still think the biggest threat to balance at the moment, though, could actually be the XP-farming issue. Perhaps we can mod it to treat heroes like tier1 units, for example. Doing this would still allow major points for taking out large monsters, but nerf the wand-from-long-range cheese tactic.

    #242082

    All my thoughts apply to duel games using the tournament settings.

    With a settler start, I never feel the need to build class buildings or research the class units. In fact, research is pretty useless overall since PBEM seems to just be rushing with heroes and converted units. Honestly, I don’t even find my specializations to be relevant most of the time, except for converting nodes with a mastery specialization while playing a summoning class.

    I would personally like to see unit production have more value, which necessitates a decrease in hero power. Removing the mind control abilities would at least make the corresponding units more valuable. Slower games would make research and unit production more valuable, but the trade-off is that PBEM can already take a very long time.

    I think that convert abilities should be left on the units, since that is an important part of those units’ identities. We should test removing the abilities from heroes and iterate on that as necessary. Maybe this is a bit much for now, but convert items as loot should maybe also be disabled. I played a game as a necromancer recently and got seduce for my leader early on. Not sure if that would be an issue for higher levels of play than mine, but seducing tier 3 units with a level 5 hero seemed pretty good to me. That item makes class less important since a lucky loot roll can change everything.

    I really like what the CivV community did with their balance mod, and think a community balance mod will be necessary for the long-term enjoyment of competitive play. Realistically, PBEM and live play should probably have separate mods, although it would be nice if a way to balance both of them could be found.

    #242086

    Lightform
    Member

    I think that convert / charm etc works just fine in live games that use autocombat, or PVP battles. The problem is definitely a PBEM one.

    I personally believe that there is only two real fixes for PBEM.
    1) limit their effect to single battle only.
    2) remove them from the game.

    As for power leveling.. I don’t feel that capping hero levels to 15 is a good solution. I would be much happier with something like reducing the skill use exp gain to 1, and lowering the enemy unit exp reward counters, so that you can only farm a tiny bit off each enemy before killing them.

    #242087

    Hiliadan
    Member

    I think my problem with increasing level requirement or cost of powerful hero abilities like convert and inflict ghoul curse is that we don’t solve the convert problem and we make the power leveling issue worse. Convert got moved from level 5 to level 7, every level it goes up widens the gap between when the ability is available to xm farmers and non xp farmers.

    That’s true if you move it to level 7. It’s not true if 1/ you move it high enough and costly enough so that it’s available only after turn 20-30 (or do you want it even later?), then even if you don’t XP farm, you have nice units to combat it, 2/ you reduce the possibility for XP farming.
    For 2/, we’re in the right direction with the reduction of the XP counters (see the thread discussing that) already implemented by Zaskow in his mod. If we had XP counters for heroes, it would go further into solving the issue.

    + look at the results of the poll here: http://www.the-battlefield.com/aow3/index.php?page=bf_poll&pollnumber=4
    No one voted for Theo and only one person for Rogue. And Theo + Rogue (especially Rogue) do not rule the tournament. So bring more hard data to back the claim that convert abilities are broken.
    I agree they need small adjustments, but clearly it’s not on the same scale as the Necro issue.
    Anyway, I think we should focus first on more broad settings and how we see the game running: when should conversion starts? The details of how to fix things have already been discussed on dedicated topics, and we should not try to reset the discussions: we should start from where they were in those topics.

    Probably a fundamental issue with heroes overall, is that they basically always get abilities that belong to tier 3 & 4 units way earlier than you are able to build those higher tier units.

    Exactly! That’s what should be fixed (for convert abilities). So the question is: when are you supposed to get Evangelist, Deathbringers, etc. in a normal game?

    And yes, maybe we should consider removing the convert items (in a mod of course).

    #242092

    cbower
    Member

    hmmm that is an interesting point. I would have to look but I think this can be done. Basically your hero upgrade would give you a property, then the research empire skill would grant the ability to users of that property. Then we leave everything as normal but we just tie it to research. The more I think about it the more I really like this idea, I’ll try to put something together this weekend.

    Exactly! That’s what should be fixed (for convert abilities). So the question is: when are you supposed to get Evangelist, Deathbringers, etc. in a normal game?

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by  cbower.
    #242096

    cbower
    Member

    I really like Starfleck idea. I think tying powerful hero abilities to research could for some interesting choices, while slowing down the escalating power of heroes, while retaining leveling. I think it also opens up allowing other powerful abilities tied to research.

    As far as modding hero to tier 1, I am pretty sure you get xp points from the tier of unit you are attacking per attack. Also that xp from wands and so forth is capped per world map turn. The caps have been reduced many times, though they could be reduced further as in zaskow’s mod.

    Probably a fundamental issue with heroes overall, is that they basically always get abilities that belong to tier 3 & 4 units way earlier than you are able to build those higher tier units. Low-tech combat typically doesn’t happen at all outside of clearing nodes, and conversion is strong strategically in all instances. Every convert is technically 1/6th to half (depending on strength) of a full army. Even one unit converted shifts the strength of the armies from 1:1 to almost 2:3. Some race/class choices, with unlucky hero spawns, give no ability to convert until you make something in the arcane item forge. But I digress.

    Essentially, I’d like to propose the simpler solution of drastically slowing hero/leader XP gain somehow to give empire economies time to catch up. Either that or speed up everything else with some sort of blanket cost reduction (or production boost). I’d probably do a little of both, personally.

    I still think the biggest threat to balance at the moment, though, could actually be the XP-farming issue. Perhaps we can mod it to treat heroes like tier1 units, for example. Doing this would still allow major points for taking out large monsters, but nerf the wand-from-long-range cheese tactic.

    #242097

    cbower
    Member

    Perhaps this could work. You could have each empire skill provide every unit with a property that “unlocks” that tier for keeping converted units. So you could change the abilities to have a secondary disabling effect with an added property. Either reduce morale to worst or something. So if you convert a unit before you have unlocked that class type he gets disabled. Then when you research that class unit it grants all units with the first property from convert, a secondary property that reverses the disable effect.

    Long story short, you can convert units of tier level you can’t produce with some sort of penalty, then when you can produce that tier of units the penalty is removed.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by  cbower.
    #242103

    Hiliadan
    Member

    cbower, you should read the XP farming topic http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/game-suggestion-to-stop-experience-farming/ and the necro nerf topic http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/triumph-necromancer-is-truly-and-utterly-broken/ entirely. 😛
    Zaskow has already nerfed the XP counters. And XP is awarded based on the tier of the attacker except for the killing blow.

    Your idea regarding convert goes further than what we thought about though! Interesting to keep the normal convert and make it nerf the converted unit (for heroes convert) then add a new skill through tech, that gives another property. However, I’m not sure you can link the two abilities so that when you use convert, it provides both the debuff and its “cure”.

    I suggest we continue the debate about conversion here: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/suggestion-conversion-limit/

    So cbower, what about:
    – larger map (between small and medium)
    – less sites or less rewards from site
    – heroes capped to lvl 15

    Regarding larger maps, yes we should mod it. The Extended Settings mod provide some sizes already but not what we need https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=523178481&searchtext=extended
    I would suggest the following size:
    Small – 49×65 = 3185 Hexes *Original
    Duel tournament – 61*77 = 4697 hexes (2 turns of movement more on each side; 47% bigger area than small)
    Medium – 73×97 = 7081 Hexes *Original

    When do you usually get your Evangelists, Deathbringers, etc.?

    #242104

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    We have been discussing that some time ago; we wanted to tie Inflict Ghould Curse to the Death Bringer technology (for BOTH heroes and Death Bringers, because that would have made it impossible for non-Necro Class Necromancer guest heroes to get Ghouls curse themselves OR Death Bringers with Ghoul Curse).
    We also wanted to tie Greater Reanimate Dead to the Healers of the Dead Tech (that would have enabled the ability for Heroes to pick)

    but i’s not possible, sorry. You can have other abilities as prerequsites for hero abilities – but no tech. Impossible.

    #242110

    SikBok
    Keymaster

    Duel tournament – 61*77

    Map sizes are required to be a multiple of 8 hexes plus 1. I.e. 8x+1.
    65×73 perhaps?

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by  SikBok.
    #242112

    cbower
    Member

    linking hero upgrades to tech:

    I think I can make that happen, but I don’t have the modding tools infront of me right now. Your right that you can’t tie a tech directly to a hero upgrade. What I am thinking is if you can make a hero upgrade grant a property like devout slayer, then why couldn’t you grant a property with no passive ability assigned to it and call it convert. Then when you researched Evangelist you make a secondary effect to grant all units with the convert property, the convert ability. So the upgrade grants the property, but then tech grants the ability. This his how the techs work anyways is they use property values in to assign the ability to the right units. Perhaps I am wrong though, I am just brainstorming here really. I’ll try give it a shot and I will let you know what I find out.

    We have been discussing that some time ago; we wanted to tie Inflict Ghould Curse to the Death Bringer technology (for BOTH heroes and Death Bringers, because that would have made it impossible for non-Necro Class Necromancer guest heroes to get Ghouls curse themselves OR Death Bringers with Ghoul Curse).
    We also wanted to tie Greater Reanimate Dead to the Healers of the Dead Tech (that would have enabled the ability for Heroes to pick)

    but i’s not possible, sorry. You can have other abilities as prerequsites for hero abilities – but no tech. Impossible.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by  cbower.
    #242114

    cbower
    Member

    Thanks for the info!

    Duel tournament – 61*77

    Map sizes are required to be a multiple of 8 hexes plus 1. I.e. 8x+1.
    65×73 perhaps?

    #242115

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Ok, I think I get it now:

    Thoroughbreed Mounts technology gives each unit that has the Cavalry property +15 HP.

    So we simply define, say, for Theocrats the property “Converter” – which must be able to be bought as an ability, so we add them to the list of abilities and set it to level whatever, say 7. Then we change the Produce Evangelist Tech by adding, units with the Converter property get the ability Convert.

    I suppose that should work. 🙂

    #242117

    cbower
    Member

    Hmmm…I saw the xp block listed in the title.rpk I guess I just mis understood how they were applied. Thanks for the info. I’ll skimmed over those topics, but there is a lot there, I’ll try reading them sometime when I have more time.

    As far as liking the cure and the debuff, the ability would need to have a secondary effect that grants a property like, bad-morale which gives the an associated state modifier. The “cure” would be for the tech to give all units with bad-morale property a state modifier called good-morale. So unit property list would be messy but it would even out. Anyways that was the thought on how to link them. I am not sure either, I’ll play around with it this weekend to see.

    cbower, you should read the XP farming topic http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/game-suggestion-to-stop-experience-farming/ and the necro nerf topic http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/triumph-necromancer-is-truly-and-utterly-broken/ entirely. 😛
    Zaskow has already nerfed the XP counters. And XP is awarded based on the tier of the attacker except for the killing blow.

    Your idea regarding convert goes further than what we thought about though! Interesting to keep the normal convert and make it nerf the converted unit (for heroes convert) then add a new skill through tech, that gives another property. However, I’m not sure you can link the two abilities so that when you use convert, it provides both the debuff and its “cure”.

    #242118

    cbower
    Member

    That is the hope JJ. It makes sense to me, it seems like it should work. I played around a little with some of this stuff. I made a mod for myself where I had created a building upgrade to give infantry units the ability to clone themselves, but had to give the clone a property so it couldn’t clone the clone or it would have been ridiculous. I played around a little with tech and properties. But I am no expert or anything.

    #242122

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Thanks for the info SikBok! Yes 65×73 is probably good!

    Regarding the way to tie tech and abilities, yes, that’s exactly what I said to Zaskow at the time!! 🙂
    Zaskow didn’t like the idea of having “dummy” abilities with no effect. But I think that’s the best solution. It was clearly my favourite solution all along (to link tech and ability).
    The post of last updated proposed fixes for the Necro is here: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/necromancers-ways-of-acquiring-too-strong-in-pbem-at-least/page/2/#post-240176
    It was solution GRU2 and IGC3.
    In that same discussion, you had the answer from Zaskow http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/necromancers-ways-of-acquiring-too-strong-in-pbem-at-least/page/2/#post-240147 to the suggestion of using a dummy ability:

    Hiliadan wrote:

    The best would still be to add a useless ability like “Awakened Necromancer” and make it a prerequisite to choose the GRU Necro upgrade.

    Giving useless ability for artificial nerfing isn’t best decision from game design reasons.

    I think nerf that I’ve made for GRU is enough – no more T4s for free from sites.

    Remark: my initial suggestion was “GRU2 * Remove the skill from the list of skills a hero can choose. Add a new tech (or associate it to Healers of the Dead or Harbingers of Death) that makes the skill appear in the list of skills the hero can choose (he still need to pay for it)” but Zaskow said it was not possible to do like this. And we quickly dropped the idea of “dummy” ability. So I’m eager for you to test that idea cbower, it would be great if it works!

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 88 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.