Question for Devs: about vanilla Specs

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Question for Devs: about vanilla Specs

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This topic contains 20 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  Teehon 7 years ago.

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  • #200854

    Teehon
    Member

    Hallo and good day!

    I’d love to hear a word from one of the developers, whether the vanilla specializations will be looked into? I, and a lot of the other players, feel that they seem pretty lackluster compared to the new Specializations which came with the Expansions. Right now the MP trend is, 90% of all players take Grey Guard adept 🙂 Also, the new 3 Specs which came with the EL are the only ones which bring new t4 units to the table, which is a big thing for big-maps-lovers.
    But, instead of nerfing the new specializations, I think it would be better to rather bring the vanilla ones to the level. What they lack right now: spells which affect whole battlefields, strategical spells which affect the empire and produced units.
    For example, if you take Air Mastery you have two single-target buffs which, while good, are almost never viable when fighting big battles. You can cast only one spell a turn in any case, and you better make this cast matter.
    So, giving something like Mass versions (maybe with a weakened effect) of either Haste or Seeker for the Air Mastery would be really interesting and doesn’t require too much effort from you!
    Another thing I’d like to see for other specializations is something similar to Scales of Balance or it’s Shadowborn/Keepers version. City-affecting buff which gives something appropriate to the new summoned/produced units. For example, +20% Fire Resist and +2 Fire Damage for all produced/summoned units for Fire Mastery spell. Still not as powerful as the Alignment versions, but it doesn’t force you to keep a certain alignment instead.

    Either way, right now I just don’t see myself NOT taking one at least Adept level of one of the new Alignment specs.

    Glory to Arstotska Age of Wonders!

    #200871

    Motasa
    Member

    Either way, right now I just don’t see myself NOT taking one at least Adept level of one of the new Alignment specs.

    Happened with the Wild Magic specializations as well (Summon Lesser Elemental being the primary reason for most). I’m with you that the vanilla specializations aren’t on par with the new ones.

    You can cast only one spell a turn in any case, and you better make this cast matter.

    This is my problem with most of those spells: as they are static (i.e. same strength and cost at turn 1 and turn 500), I mostly just ignore my spellbook when my leader levels to a certain strength as a melee or ranged fighter. In a matter of time my leader/heroes can do more damage with their ranged or melee attacks than cast a spell on a unit (friend or foe) for a relatively small effect and wasting casting points and mana.

    What I would like is to have some status effects on damaging spells, or a chance for status effects to affect the targeted unit(s), to give these spells some lasting effects and possible give you a tactical advantage after casting it. For example a chance to set a unit on fire (immolate) with a Fireball or freeze a unit with (freezing cold) Vengeful Frost.

    #200875

    Teehon
    Member

    This is my problem with most of those spells: as they are static (i.e. same strength and cost at turn 1 and turn 500), I mostly just ignore my spellbook when my leader levels to a certain strength as a melee or ranged fighter. In a matter of time my leader/heroes can do more damage with their ranged or melee attacks than cast a spell on a unit (friend or foe) for a relatively small effect and wasting casting points and mana.

    Unless you can cast Cardinal Culling and suddenly ALL your army deals more damage against the enemy’s most precious units. Or the Blinding Aura from the Keeper spec, which gives ALL the enemies -20% Spirit Res, very useful if you play Theocrat or Humans.

    #200877

    Motasa
    Member

    Unless you can cast Cardinal Culling and suddenly ALL your army deals more damage against the enemy’s most precious units. Or the Blinding Aura from the Keeper spec, which gives ALL the enemies -20% Spirit Res, very useful if you play Theocrat or Humans.

    Those you mentioned are then from the new specializations. Those vanilla ones are, as you mentioned, less useful when compared to the new ones. 🙂

    #200890

    Sindir
    Member

    I’m with you, the old ones are far behindert the New specs.
    A spell that gave fireattack and some Kind of fireresist (20% might be to much) for fireadept etc. is a good idea. But then they would have one spell more then the new. Also i guess that the elemetal specs aren’t desingt for unitbuffs as much as the New specialisation. For this they have the mana and researchbuff fitting mananodes give them i guess…

    #200907

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    The new ones must be better because thy force you into a specific alignment or else.
    It’s pretty silly when you want to make peace but can’t because at would make you slightly good.

    #200914

    Gloweye
    Member

    yeah, I kind of agree. They all got a slight buff in the availability of Node Conversion spells(which are pretty useful due to higher Mana and giving Knowledge, but ultimately to limited due to the impossibility to convert already typed nodes). This could use an Avatar Spell called “Neutralize Node”(or whatever) for some 60(?) CP that would clear a node’s specifics and make it ready for the Conversion.

    Also, I think there’s room for some enchantments like “Embrace Fire” or whatever, which would maybe give some Fire Resistance to the unit, with a +2-ish Melee Fire damage buff on Mastery Level.

    #200920

    greyclouds
    Member

    Also, expander, and explorer need some additional research items and review. I think that perhaps a castable spell would round these out, with some buffs to some of the empire upgrades they provide.

    #200954

    Mythabril
    Member

    What about a “[Sphere] Mastery” research on Master that allows you to cast an all units version of the unit enchantments from the Adept level.

    #201060

    Serahfemme
    Member

    I’m not so sure I agree because the alignment restriction is actually a bigger constraint than you might think. I’ve found myself having to make sub-par strategic decisions (declaring war on a distant independent when I have plenty of gold to buy it out, letting easy EXP flee, having to take the time/money to buy out an independent when its weakly defended and my army is nearby, not being able to raze an enemy city, etc) just to keep my alignment in check when using these spheres, and I think the abilities should be a little stronger to reflect that they narrow your strategic decisions. Even the old good-themed Creation and evil-themed Destruction spheres don’t require you to be their alignment for their spells to function; a Pure Good player can use Disintegrate at the same effectiveness as a Pure Evil player, for example.

    Also, the old spheres still have some really strong spells in them. Seeker on cannon is absolutely absurd and worth spending your turn to enchant it, Hellfire/Earthquake annihilates entire armies (and is incredibly abuseable when paired with certain units like Firstborn for Hellfire and any flying unit for Earthquake). Also, while the alignment specialties might have Tier 4 Summons, I find they come into play so late that they’re not entirely practical. The Tier 3 Elemental Summons are much more practical and reliable.

    #201112

    Fenraellis
    Member

    Also, I think there’s room for some enchantments like “Embrace Fire” or whatever, which would maybe give some Fire Resistance to the unit, with a +2-ish Melee Fire damage buff on Mastery Level.

    Fira Aura…? 😉

    Yes, I know you meant something similar to the city+global enchantment combination of the Alignment specs.

    #201139

    Gloweye
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Gloweye wrote:</div>
    Also, I think there’s room for some enchantments like “Embrace Fire” or whatever, which would maybe give some Fire Resistance to the unit, with a +2-ish Melee Fire damage buff on Mastery Level.

    Fira Aura…? 😉

    Yes, I know you meant something similar to the city+global enchantment combination of the Alignment specs.

    Fire Aura seems a bit strong to me…The resistance is more for flavor(though you can use it to block out a natural weakness, like Frostlings and Fire). The idea was that IF you are a Master of Fire, your entire army is affected, all dealing (some/additional) fire damage.

    #201173

    Teehon
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Fenraellis wrote:</div>

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Gloweye wrote:</div><br>
    Also, I think there’s room for some enchantments like “Embrace Fire” or whatever, which would maybe give some Fire Resistance to the unit, with a +2-ish Melee Fire damage buff on Mastery Level.

    Fira Aura…? 😉

    Yes, I know you meant something similar to the city+global enchantment combination of the Alignment specs.

    Fire Aura seems a bit strong to me…The resistance is more for flavor(though you can use it to block out a natural weakness, like Frostlings and Fire). The idea was that IF you are a Master of Fire, your entire army is affected, all dealing (some/additional) fire damage.

    Pretty much this.
    To be honest, I do miss the old enchantments… Fire Aura on Bladedancers to deal with enemy Water Elementals, Liquid Body on Gorgoyles to attack from the water unseen and make them real mage killers…

    #201178

    thabob79
    Member

    Having to spent turns during combats, meaning that a hero wont act of a turn (lord casting if not présent on the battlefield is less annoying). Heroes are killing machines (or swiss knife) i dont want to spend time to cast a lil buff with em. I will use them only if needed or nothing better to do.

    #201179

    thabob79
    Member

    More on topic, explorer and expander now have 5 skills like all spec and have a starting skill. Master elemental sphere +5 research with the good node type and transmute mode is a good addition.

    #201213

    Zaskow
    Member

    Agree with topicstarter.
    Some old adept specializations are relatively weak.
    Take a look.
    Air
    Seeker – the most useful spell in adept. Still, pretty useless for classes which not relied on range weapons.
    Suffocate – weak battle spell with serious limitations. It can be completely obsolete by class battle spell even in early game.
    Domain of Winter – useful city enchantment buffing happiness. Relatively expensive to maintain though.
    Summon Zephyr Bird – this t2 spell summon can’t compete with class scouts in most cases. Expensive to maintain, cast, research.
    Creation – ok.
    Destruction – ok.
    Earth – ok.
    Fire – extremely useful even in late game.
    Water
    Vengeful Frost – ok.
    Rot – very limited use – machines and undead. Alternative mode for other types of units required. Look at Rust strike – it can work on armored too.
    Freeze Water – too expensive. This spell must be used every turn to support your army moving faster through rivers and lakes, but required 80 CP makes this very painful and slow.
    Summon Baby Kraken – piece of useless crap, honestly.
    Wild Magic
    Warp Equipment, Swap Locations and Summon Lesser Elemental were nerfed too much, honestly. Nobody uses this specialization now.

    #201231

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Not everything has to be useful all the time, and Class Tech obviously MAY make things obsolete – that’s why you pick something and not randomly assign ANY spec, since not all are equally useful for and against everyone.
    What about Terraform and Necromancer, for example? And that’s Avatar, yo you can’t even pick not to get it.

    #201233

    Zaskow
    Member

    Not everything has to be useful all the time, and Class Tech obviously MAY make things obsolete – that’s why you pick something and not randomly assign ANY spec, since not all are equally useful for and against everyone.

    Problem is that some old specs have wider range of usefulness.

    #202004

    Teehon
    Member

    I am uping the topic since it was probably not seen by the devs during the long weekend.

    #202036

    Aennor
    Member

    +1
    Have hard time deciding what to pick, but most of my recent games went “expander + shadowborn/keeper mastery” AND that’s the reason to worry about
    Seriously.
    While elemental masteries have their uses, I feel that shadowborn/keeper (also grey guard, but at least for me it’s much harder to keep the alingnment neutral) is superior to old ones

    #202037

    Teehon
    Member

    While elemental masteries have their uses, I feel that shadowborn/keeper (also grey guard, but at least for me it’s much harder to keep the alingnment neutral) is superior to old ones

    Actually, Grey Guard is the strongest of them all.

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