Question – has anyone found a way to give situational elemental protections?

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Home Forums Modding and Map Making Question – has anyone found a way to give situational elemental protections?

This topic contains 20 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Gloweye 6 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
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  • #231978

    Hatmage
    Member

    Hi. I’ve been looking for a way to grant elemental protection/weakness only if an attacker has a certain requisite, or only while the defender has a certain requisite applied by the attacker (but not in an inflict despair sense, the amount of protection should be a property of the defender if possible), and was wondering if anyone else had accomplished something along those lines.

    #231987

    Yes. All you have to do is make your ability, and then have two different targeters for it.

    The first is for the normal effect of the ability (like say 9 blight damage per shot).

    The second has a required requisite, say “machine”, and then links to an effect you make. There is a unit property class called “damage resistance”, which you can name whatever you want.

    This will make the targets resistance change however you want, either higher or lower, but only for that ability.

    So for a concrete example, assume an ability “corrupting acid” that is a three shot, medium range acid attack at 11 blight damage, but it also has a secondary targeter that gives only undead and machine units -40% blight damage resistance.

    If you set it up right, you should be able to make the -40% blight weakness effect occur before the damage effect does (you can delay effects).

    As for the other way (so you only get fire resistance vs. dragons, or something), you need to go into the magical tactical shield effect arena (these are the auras). You make one, and have the required requisite be whatever you want to have more resistance against. Say it is dragons.

    Then you set up the same damage resistance unit property, and it should make you take less of whatever damage channel you pick only vs the certain set of attackers.

    #232003

    Gloweye
    Member

    It’s not possible to do this from the defender’s side, since there’s no way to read who is dealing damage to you.

    #232074

    It’s not possible to do this from the defender’s side, since there’s no way to read who is dealing damage to you.

    why can’t you make an aura trigger only for certain attacking units? It has the option to make a required requisite right next to the forbidden ones (like incorporeal)…

    #232099

    Gloweye
    Member

    why can’t you make an aura trigger only for certain attacking units? It has the option to make a required requisite right next to the forbidden ones (like incorporeal)…

    You can, but those can only target the attacking unit, therefore not being able to increase the elemental attack/defense of the defending one. It also trigger after the attack hits, so you can’t reduce damage.

    #232107

    You can, but those can only target the attacking unit, therefore not being able to increase the elemental attack/defense of the defending one. It also trigger after the attack hits, so you can’t reduce damage.

    You can make it work on the post first strikes presumably. You could also take the “exposure” type dome portion, have it trigger only on certain requisites, and then give those attacking units a damage reduction property in the particular damage channel.

    That would be pretty much what hatmage wants, at least in function.

    #232137

    Gloweye
    Member

    You could also take the “exposure” type dome portion, have it trigger only on certain requisites, and then give those attacking units a damage reduction property in the particular damage channel.

    That would be pretty much what hatmage wants, at least in function.

    This one might work, but at the side effect that it doesn’t matter anymore who they’re hitting.

    My suggestion would be to leave that world of pain where it is, and decide that someone immune to Fire Dragon Breath is also Immune to Phoenixes and Hellfire.

    #232140

    My suggestion would be to leave that world of pain where it is, and decide that someone immune to Fire Dragon Breath is also Immune to Phoenixes and Hellfire.

    I agree, but some people like the involved interaction of many different abilities and counter abilities.

    #232152

    Bob5
    Member

    What about Pike Square? Doesn’t that give the defender a boost depending on requisites of the attacker?

    #232156

    Gloweye
    Member

    What about Pike Square? Doesn’t that give the defender a boost depending on requisites of the attacker?

    Might be worth looking into. Worst case you can give a Resistance boost.

    #232163

    What about Pike Square? Doesn’t that give the defender a boost depending on requisites of the attacker?

    yeah, I checked. You can’t put elemental resistances into that type of thing, only stat boosts. Of course, the effect is essentially the same, so I would just do that. I think it is called a “conditional defense bonus”, and there is a matching “conditional attack bonus” where you could put in some extra fire damage when targeting machines for a blight ability, or something.

    You should also know that “bonus” is just a label: you can input negative stat values if you want to give something vulnerability/lower attack.

    #232319

    Hatmage
    Member

    Having looked a little further, waht I’m after might be possible with a hidden property that is inflicted in advance of a attack landing and acts as a condition for a universal player property granting all units not possessing the hidden property 20% resistance to an element per copy of a requisite they posess, and another universal property giving 20% resistance per copy for a different requisite only when the hidden property was on a unit, allowing clumsy splitting of damage channels (provided the damage types never mix in one attack) if I did a lot of rewriting monsters with the old resistance and generally being a compatibility nightmare. I might find time to test it this weekend.

    In a perfect world, we would be able to add required and forebidden properties, and attacker required/forbidden properties, directly to protections, but I suspect that ship has sailed and that the Dev’s aren’t about to lasso it by the mainmast, drag it back into dock and add another deck or six at this point.

    #232321

    In a perfect world, we would be able to add required and forebidden properties, and attacker required/forbidden properties, directly to protections, but I suspect that ship has sailed and that the Dev’s aren’t about to lasso it by the mainmast, drag it back into dock and add another deck or six at this point.

    Yeah, I’m not exactly sure why the things mentioned earlier won’t do what I think you want it to do without going through that particular procedure. Why don’t you lay out your application of this in a concrete idea.

    #232334

    Hatmage
    Member

    Essentially, I want to be able to give a unit two seperate spirit resistance/weakness values, one used for normal attacks that goes away when the unit has the “magic attack target” property, and one that only comes up when it has that property, and, given the huge number of things that can effect how much spirit resistance a unit has, that would be substantially easier and create far fewer incompatibilities if I :
    1)Could add prerequisites directly to spirit protection (namely, only being in effect if a unit doen’t have “magic attack target”).
    2)Could go about creating a second protection on the spirit channel (that much alone is possible), only in effect when a unit has “magic attack target” to work as magic protection.
    Than if I achieve something similar by mucking around with requisites and abilities, and then manually replacing every instance of vanilla spirit protection or weakness with the requisite version.

    #232335

    That would be an awfully inefficient way of doing that. All you need to do is to do something like rust strike where you have normal attack A and then a Secondary effect B that only triggers on units with requisite C or D.

    An easy way to have spirit things happen to spirit immune units is to use a physical resistance check (that is what the human mounted support inquisitor does, also inflict weaken for blight).

    I’m fairly certain that conditional defense bonuses can work for ranged attacks or possibly even abilities, so extra resistance (1 point is roughly 5 resistance) would have the same impact as conditional spirit protection.

    #232336

    Hatmage
    Member

    The idea isn’t just to have a spirit attack that affects spirit immune units, the idea is to brutally shoehorn a sixth damage channel into an infrastructure that doesn’t really support it, without any preexisting spirit weakness or resistance being taken into account. I can make an attack that does full spirit damage to a spirit immune target, but if I do so it does double damage to a regular target. If I can decouple the “magic resistance” of the struck unit entirely from its’ base spirit resistance I’ll have what I want.

    #232343

    quo
    Member

    The idea isn’t just to have a spirit attack that affects spirit immune units, the idea is to brutally shoehorn a sixth damage channel into an infrastructure that doesn’t really support it, without any preexisting spirit weakness or resistance being taken into account. I can make an attack that does full spirit damage to a spirit immune target, but if I do so it does double damage to a regular target. If I can decouple the “magic resistance” of the struck unit entirely from its’ base spirit resistance I’ll have what I want.

    I’m not sure it’s going to work with the tools we have. The issue is there are multiple ways a unit could have Spirit Resistance (or Protection). It could be derived from their race, from something applied specifically to the unit, or from something temporary like a spell or Cosmic Event. You could make Spirit Resistance and Protection dispellable properties and dispell them prior to the attack calculation, but then you’d need to reapply them after and that is the clencher. The system has no way to remember how much resistance or protection to reapply.

    EDIT: Actually just thought of something. Resistance caps at 0% if I’m not mistaken. So, what might work is to apply a HUGE Spirit debuff prior to rolling your new damage type attack. Something completely outside the normal realms of the game, like -1000% Spirit. Since we know Spirit Weakness caps at 0%, we then know any attack done on the Spirit channel does double damage. So you would then code your fake Damage Type to do 1/2 as much damage as you intend (since it will be doing double damage).

    You’d want to make sure a followup event in the spell’s chain removed the -1000% Spirit debuff at the end of the attack so the enemy doesn’t get stuck running around with it.

    #232347

    Hatmage
    Member

    Thank you. I’ll try that, and if it’s what works best it’s what I’ll use. I will do a bit more experimenting this weekend.

    #232516

    I can make an attack that does full spirit damage to a spirit immune target, but if I do so it does double damage to a regular target.

    Not if you make the full spirit damage to a spirit immune target effect only trigger on a target with any of the following (as a note, you can make targeters select any target with any of the following abilities or requisites, rather than just must have all) machine, strong will, or spirit shield/spirit of the lands. That should take care of like 99% of spirit immune units that aren’t based on unusual item configurations.

    #232574

    Hatmage
    Member

    -Snip-
    Not if you make the full spirit damage to a spirit immune target effect only trigger on a target with any of the following (as a note, you can make targeters select any target with any of the following abilities or requisites, rather than just must have all) machine, strong will, or spirit shield/spirit of the lands. That should take care of like 99% of spirit immune units that aren’t based on unusual item configurations.

    That also creates the undesirable situation that partial spirit resistance is actually better than immunity. Perhaps I’ll be able to apply 20% spirit weakness for every copy of spirit resistance or “magic weakness” the target has, and 20% spirit protection per copy of spirit weakness or “magic protection, but if something doesn’t work there it’ll be the “per copy of” part. If I can do all that without modding units, and only add magic weakness/resistance to unit types like elementals I should retain a fair bit of compatibility.

    #232600

    Gloweye
    Member

    Perhaps I’ll be able to apply 20% spirit weakness for every copy of spirit resistance or “magic weakness” the target has,

    You can’t, since there’s no way to check for their presence.

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