Races Survey and Terraria Wonders

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This topic contains 196 replies, has 68 voices, and was last updated by  BB Shockwave 6 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #216017

    SikBok
    Keymaster

    See News post and participate in the poll! (need to be registered to vote!)
    http://aow.triumph.net/races-survey-pixel-art/

    #216022

    Hasbulat
    Member

    Not sure, whether I understand the statment:

    IN FUTURE GAMES FROM TRIUMPH I PREFER TO HAVE MORE UNIQUE – EVEN ASYMMETRICAL – RACES OVER HAVING A MORE EASILY BALANCED GAME.

    The races are to be different for my opinion. Sure not only in the outfit. So, I think, they are to be asymetrical.
    Otheside, if a race meet a “uncomfortable” race and just loose without any chance is also more than very bad.
    So, they are to be assymetrical, unique, but also well-balanced as well.

    #216027

    Teehon
    Member

    PLEASE GIVE US SOME NEWS ALREADY!

    …please :,(

    #216031

    Fimbul
    Member

    regarding the variations, just make it 64bit only, proper use of multicore and ram and you get alot of options without sacrifices!

    #216035

    SikBok
    Keymaster

    So, they are to be assymetrical, unique, but also well-balanced as well.

    Typically, the more unique we make the races the harder they are to balance.

    Triumph tends to balance something OP on one side by giving something equally OP to the other side. That makes for a game that’s balanced, but balanced like Magic the Gathering and not like a competitive shooter.

    regarding the variations, just make it 64bit only, proper use of multicore and ram and you get alot of options without sacrifices!

    Tech is not the problem if the goal is to add more variation, it’s finding enough ideas that work well and the time spend making and polishing them.

    #216037

    daniel8484
    Member

    I’m really want more races/classes, but i fell like races still don’t have so much impact (i would enjoy more).

    My suggestions/ideas:

    A T4 unit for each race… obtained by race governance (last level).. or even better, you can have 2 or 3 options in this last level to obtain this unit… and we can choose one of these 2/3 sets of skills/status….

    For example.. a gold/black/fire drake for draconians, ranged airship/melee airship/self destruct airship for humans, variations of kharagh for globins, Leprechaun variations for halflings… and so on

    Classes could have some kind of specialization at certain levels, receiving bonus and skills, and maybe reducing the cost of something (like reducing the cost of ranged power, increasing range and penalizing melee for an archer in rogue or warrior classes)

    And one thing that would also be great is units that we cant produce and can only be obtained in maps/dungeons/prisons… like animals, special monsters, unique heroes or unit variations/specializations.

    Well.. anyway, even if these ideas dont go forward, i hope one day we have some mod tools and me or someone make this happen hahaha

    #216038

    Gloweye
    Member

    Variation is very important IMO. However, classes over races, and not to much at the cost of balance.

    #216042

    Yigg
    Member

    Let me preface this by saying I don’t play multiplayer. I like imbalance between the races and classes. With AoW:Shadow Magic, I think most would agree the Nomads were somewhat overpowered, but it didn’t hurt the game in my opinion.

    If someone is new to the game, I like the idea of recommending a relatively powerful race or class to them. For someone who has put hundreds of hours into the game, perhaps they want a challenging race to spice things up.

    As for visual diversity, I see too much anthropomorphism with the bestial races. Orcs should be broader of shoulder (at the expense of fewer Orcs appearing in the unit), muscle bound, and have gnashing teeth. Draconians should be more reptilian in appearance, like the Slither.

    Triumph did a fantastic job with the Goblins in AoW3, they all look great, especially the Blight Doctors.

    In AoW:SM I also loved the visual diversity of the Shadow Demons, I’d love to see them appear in the next expansion.

    #216044

    melkathi
    Member

    Don’t like tall frostlings…
    I know, very constructive, insightfull comment 😛

    #216045

    madmac
    Member

    I think the races could stand to be less symmetrical then they currently are without making balancing too too difficult. So pretty much I’m a moderate who wants a little more race stuff but I don’t want races to overshadow classes too much.

    Oh, and get rid of racial stat mods entirely. Racial traits are both easier to balance and more interesting and you don’t have to deal with the Dwarves vs Orcs/Goblins problem, where one race is boring because their superior statline means you can’t add anything else while the other race is a huge pain to balance because of their innate stat penalties.

    #216052

    Hasbulat
    Member

    As for me, the races should be more different, with possibility to play a special race based strategy, also visual they should be more individual.
    Also units shuld be more race unique, has own benefits, own abilities and own line of level-upgrades.

    Besides of that I like very much the concept of the upgrade of some units, but, as for me, they make sence only for the spiders and snakes currently. Would be wonderfull to develop this idea.

    But I think the class should dominate in the strategy.

    #216053

    Fizzbitch
    Member

    I love playing as the Draconians, but I wished their aesthetics were a bit more draconian and a bit less Mayan/Astec.

    That being said, I think the Tigrans and Frostlings added some nice variation in the race scemes, but still they didn’t have units that deviated from the typical path. I would love to have more varied races, but not to the point where it would bring down balancing issues.

    I wouldn’t mind having the Class diversity brought down in order to promote race diversity some more, but really its all about a balance between the two where it feels just as important and different to pick a certain race then it would a certain class. Right now you put more emphasis on the Classes, which was still awesome and great. It just took away a bit of identity from the races. A nice balance in that would be my suggestion.

    #216054

    Vulpoid
    Member

    I like the way Goblins and Hobbits play but really hate the way they look. Get rid of the buckteeth and chubby faces!

    #216056

    iblis86
    Member

    What I still want although it’s a very fragile hope, is to have at least one more unit per race. If there were just 7 different units per race in AoW 2, I would not complain, but since there were 8 and now just 7 in AoW 3, it feels like step back.

    One silly suggestion of mine: Each race having one additional tier 3 unit, but a city can only specialize in one of the two tier 3 units. Then the player would need to have at least two cities in order to get access to both.

    Just loudly thinking and wishing, as always.

    #216057

    Hasbulat
    Member

    I love hobbits…. eeehm.. halflings, they is my absolutely favorit race.

    But I cannt see them. For my opinion they was made not so seccessfully. Also the music theme… If I play halflings, I hear in my ears a mysic from AOW1!
    The idea with an additional race unit for each race is also very nice. Perhaps more healer, buffer and debuffer in the game, they are very rare here.

    #216064

    esvath
    Member

    For visual:

    I want more different visuals for races. Make Draconians as Dragonlike people, instead of as red humanoind.
    Also use different models for unit classes, one of the most offensive visually is Bard. The model is good for human/elves, but very terrible for orc/goblin.

    In my opinion, the Tigran is the best visually (well, for the record I do love cats so I might be biased here). The worst visuals are Draconians.

    Other than that, what I’d love to see is: the skin color of my leader should change the skin color of my starting race’s units.

    Thus, when I choose a Draconian leader with blue skin, all my Draconian units should have blue-tinged skins. An Elven leader with black skin should have the racial units with black color as well. This will be important if you combined with my suggestion for RG Factions below.

    For race/class combo, gameplay and balance:

    I want more different/uniqueness determined by races, yes, but I don’t want this to reduce the unique gameplay determined by class. As Triumph introduces classes, I think classes should remain the major determinator for gameplay. You choose Theocrat if you want holy/crusader/religious theme and play healing-fest.

    Races should provide a variation inside this theme. Goblin Theocrat should focus on the destructive, rotten part of the holy/crusader/religion theme while Elven Theocrat focus on their worship over Lightning (the Storm cult).

    I think current race/class dynamics are almost perfect, just make more unique abilities for each race/class units. I like how Draconian and Human Evangelists are shooters. Add more like this and the dynamics will be perfect!

    You can take a step further by emphasising a certain race/class combo as the best combo, but I don’t think that would be necessary.

    For future development regarding race:

    I suggest Triumph develop Racial Governance to provide asymmetric bonus/strength-weakness/strategy to races. I already proposed this and will propose again when the opportunity arise.

    First level of Racial Governance should allow players to choose among various sub-faction in a race. For the example: choose between High Elves vs Dark Elves.

    Then, at RG2, High Elves players can choose between “High Elves Marksmanship” which gives +1 range damage for all archer units or “High Elves Tree Farm” which gives +100 population/city.
    Dark Elves players can choose between “Dark Elves Blade Mastery” which gives elven Swordsman “evolve to Bladedancer” at Gold rank or “Dark Elves Mana Harvest” which gives +5 mana for Shrines.

    For Humans, it might be “Commonwealth” and “Rebel” factions.

    For Goblin, a “Tinkerer” faction (Goblin Suicide Bomber, anyone?) and more “Savage” one (hello, Wyvern Rider), etc.

    This way, we can have two types/factions of Elves (and also for other races), and each type/faction can promote a new way of playing. Essentially, we doubles the number of the races, but with limited works for Triumph since they don’t have to make the 7 racial units for the new factions. They just need to make one or two or three new unique units for each factions, for example Bladesinger for Dark Elves, or Leprechaun for Hill Halflings etc.

    Furthermore, if each faction’s RGs are unique enough, then we will have even more diversity! The RG system has a tremendous potential, if only Triumph is willing to take one step forward and make each RG gives something unique, not only “military” or “economy”. Why not a RG which gives a unique spell, more crafting points in Arcane Forge, etc?

    At the same time, the classes are there and Triumph don’t have to make too many changes to the classes. The new RG will provide enough dynamics and asymmetrical balance to play till years after!

    If Triumph adopt this proposal then we will have:
    18 factions
    x16 possible RG combinations for each factions
    x7 classes

    #216081

    nspannaus
    Member

    I’ll preface my suggestions by saying I *love* the game as it currently stands. To be honest, I just want MORE of it in just about every way. Here are some thoughts:

    I’d love to see more empire upgrades and passive global enchantments. More complex tech trees would keep things interesting. Maybe some high-cost neutral research opportunities just to provide more variety?

    In terms of appearance, the heroes could use some variation. Currently, I feel compelled to equip mounts purely to give them some aesthetic distinction.

    Active/highlighted units could “pop” on the screen a bit more. The battlefields can get a bit cluttered as the game progresses and armies grow.

    Finally: (I’m sure the merits of this have been discussed ad nauseum… but) I think units comprised of multiple minions (infantry, groups of archers, etc.) should become weakened as they are damaged.

    PS. I’d be happy to pay for another substantial expansion pack if that’s in the works.

    #216086

    Zorrino
    Member

    Wow there are allot of very nice idea’s out there for this “upcoming expansion”. =)

    First i would like to point out the few that caught my attention,

    1.

    I’ll preface my suggestions by saying I *love* the game as it currently stands. To be honest, I just want MORE of it in just about every way. Here are some thoughts:

    I’d love to see more empire upgrades and passive global enchantments. More complex tech trees would keep things interesting. Maybe some high-cost neutral research opportunities just to provide more variety?

    In terms of appearance, the heroes could use some variation. Currently, I feel compelled to equip mounts purely to give them some aesthetic distinction.

    Active/highlighted units could “pop” on the screen a bit more. The battlefields can get a bit cluttered as the game progresses and armies grow.

    Finally: (I’m sure the merits of this have been discussed ad nauseum… but) I think units comprised of multiple minions (infantry, groups of archers, etc.) should become weakened as they are damaged.

    PS. I’d be happy to pay for another substantial expansion pack if that’s in the works.

    2.

    For visual:

    I want more different visuals for races. Make Draconians as Dragonlike people, instead of as red humanoind.
    Also use different models for unit classes, one of the most offensive visually is Bard. The model is good for human/elves, but very terrible for orc/goblin.

    In my opinion, the Tigran is the best visually (well, for the record I do love cats so I might be biased here). The worst visuals are Draconians.

    Other than that, what I’d love to see is: the skin color of my leader should change the skin color of my starting race’s units.

    Thus, when I choose a Draconian leader with blue skin, all my Draconian units should have blue-tinged skins. An Elven leader with black skin should have the racial units with black color as well. This will be important if you combined with my suggestion for RG Factions below.

    For race/class combo, gameplay and balance:

    I want more different/uniqueness determined by races, yes, but I don’t want this to reduce the unique gameplay determined by class. As Triumph introduces classes, I think classes should remain the major determinator for gameplay. You choose Theocrat if you want holy/crusader/religious theme and play healing-fest.

    Races should provide a variation inside this theme. Goblin Theocrat should focus on the destructive, rotten part of the holy/crusader/religion theme while Elven Theocrat focus on their worship over Lightning (the Storm cult).

    I think current race/class dynamics are almost perfect, just make more unique abilities for each race/class units. I like how Draconian and Human Evangelists are shooters. Add more like this and the dynamics will be perfect!

    You can take a step further by emphasising a certain race/class combo as the best combo, but I don’t think that would be necessary.

    For future development regarding race:

    I suggest Triumph develop Racial Governance to provide asymmetric bonus/strength-weakness/strategy to races. I already proposed this and will propose again when the opportunity arise.

    First level of Racial Governance should allow players to choose among various sub-faction in a race. For the example: choose between High Elves vs Dark Elves.

    Then, at RG2, High Elves players can choose between “High Elves Marksmanship” which gives +1 range damage for all archer units or “High Elves Tree Farm” which gives +100 population/city.
    Dark Elves players can choose between “Dark Elves Blade Mastery” which gives elven Swordsman “evolve to Bladedancer” at Gold rank or “Dark Elves Mana Harvest” which gives +5 mana for Shrines.

    For Humans, it might be “Commonwealth” and “Rebel” factions.

    For Goblin, a “Tinkerer” faction (Goblin Suicide Bomber, anyone?) and more “Savage” one (hello, Wyvern Rider), etc.

    This way, we can have two types/factions of Elves (and also for other races), and each type/faction can promote a new way of playing. Essentially, we doubles the number of the races, but with limited works for Triumph since they don’t have to make the 7 racial units for the new factions. They just need to make one or two or three new unique units for each factions, for example Bladesinger for Dark Elves, or Leprechaun for Hill Halflings etc.

    Furthermore, if each faction’s RGs are unique enough, then we will have even more diversity! The RG system has a tremendous potential, if only Triumph is willing to take one step forward and make each RG gives something unique, not only “military” or “economy”. Why not a RG which gives a unique spell, more crafting points in Arcane Forge, etc?

    At the same time, the classes are there and Triumph don’t have to make too many changes to the classes. The new RG will provide enough dynamics and asymmetrical balance to play till years after!

    If Triumph adopt this proposal then we will have:
    18 factions
    x16 possible RG combinations for each factions
    x7 classes

    3.

    I’m really want more races/classes, but i fell like races still don’t have so much impact (i would enjoy more).

    My suggestions/ideas:

    A T4 unit for each race… obtained by race governance (last level).. or even better, you can have 2 or 3 options in this last level to obtain this unit… and we can choose one of these 2/3 sets of skills/status….

    For example.. a gold/black/fire drake for draconians, ranged airship/melee airship/self destruct airship for humans, variations of kharagh for globins, Leprechaun variations for halflings… and so on

    Classes could have some kind of specialization at certain levels, receiving bonus and skills, and maybe reducing the cost of something (like reducing the cost of ranged power, increasing range and penalizing melee for an archer in rogue or warrior classes)

    And one thing that would also be great is units that we cant produce and can only be obtained in maps/dungeons/prisons… like animals, special monsters, unique heroes or unit variations/specializations.

    Well.. anyway, even if these ideas dont go forward, i hope one day we have some mod tools and me or someone make this happen hahaha

    4.

    What I still want although it’s a very fragile hope, is to have at least one more unit per race. If there were just 7 different units per race in AoW 2, I would not complain, but since there were 8 and now just 7 in AoW 3, it feels like step back.

    One silly suggestion of mine: Each race having one additional tier 3 unit, but a city can only specialize in one of the two tier 3 units. Then the player would need to have at least two cities in order to get access to both.

    Just loudly thinking and wishing, as always.

    These idea’s of theirs should really be considered by Triumph and implemented into the game some how. Maybe the next survey should talk about how much money peeps are willing to spend once we have a confirmed idea of what’s all going to be in the next expansion… =D

    #216087

    Zorrino
    Member

    I think it’s time to introduce some new races/factions into the realm of AoW 3, example, Tieflings, Feys, Centaurs, Skavens, Worgens, Yuan-Ti’s, I’m sure we could all come up with our own versions of a unique races/factions, just a thought. =D

    Tho I can’t imagine a Skaven/Theocrat, tho that would be interesting to play. Here’s some inspirations for that particular race for the Skavens,

    #216089

    Zorrino
    Member

    hmm I had a link on there but it didn’t copy it on my last statement =(

    maybe now? =D

    https://www.google.com/search?q=skavens&biw=1600&bih=837&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=qFqgVce1Lcn9oQTNsoXQCg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

    Enjoy! =D

    #216103

    HousePet
    Member

    Please add a sentence or two to explain what you mean with each question, when you do surveys.

    Also, I don’t feel there is much difference between gameplay between different classes at all anyway.
    The gameplay always ends up as rush and spam t3/4 units. With a little flavour as to what the units are.
    For example, compare Archdruid and Sorcerer:
    They both get a buffed support unit, powerful summoned units, an overland nuke spell, a harmful domain spell…
    They have some variation in battlefield spells, but they still play the same way.
    As an Archdruid I want to fill enemy domain with forests that slow enemies but let my troops move quickly and stealthily. I want better terraforming that other classes.
    As a Sorcerer I want to teleport my troops to where I want them and not be crippled by Greater Disjunction.

    BTW: Can you do anything about the super happiness debuffs on Dread Seige/Omen? Being hit by both at once means that all your troops in that domain revolt and you have no way of countering it. Individually those spell basically cripple your troops already as moral effects are very strong.

    #216104

    Hatmage
    Member

    On Visuals & Theme
    Draconians: Most draconian units look good to me. The best looking are the dragon priests, who have long snouts, generally reptilian skull structure and dress well, to the extent that they dress. The worst are draconian heroes, wih their flat faces, ridged foreheads and human clothes. Thematically, dragon people sound like something a six year old would invent, but the execution has been fairly good, and they don’t feel like an odd race out the way dragon people normally do.

    Dwarves: need larger heads, helms with more helm and less horn, and to look like practical, no nonsense dwarven warriors instead of gold-laden conical creatures with poorly defined shoulders. They don’t look like they should be able to move. My standards for properly illustrated dwarves have, admittedly, been continually ratcheted up by the marvellous fan illustrators on the dwarf fortress forums. I like dwarves. I like the whole reverence for their ancestors thing, and it would be interesting to see how that interacts with necromancy.

    Goblins: should have fangs instead of buckteeth, and perhaps horrifying hand-feet like monkeys and apes have. I think that goblins should have at least one unit that strangles people, but they’re in a good place. Clean hero clothing looks odd on them, though.

    Orcs: I’m not fond of the shark-fin shaped helms many orcs have, and they could stand to be a bit less muscular, and fatter – soldiers, not bodybuilders. I also think they could have a more muted, natural skin colour, as they are a bit pepperminty. But I like orcs. I like their irregulars, and their specialised cavalry. Razorbows can come back when they’ve ditched their compound word for a sensible name, though.

    Humans: All their weapons and armour are well made, both gorgeous and practical. They are the gold standard by which other races should be judged visually. Their priests are scowlier than a human face should really allow for, though. There isn’t much to say about their theme. I guess they’re pretty late mediæval german, but things like the german power struggle between the guilds and the nobles aren’t really there.

    High elves: Visually nice. I like that their eyes are often hidden by their helms and hoods. The issues I have with them are thematic: Why can’t they ride normal horses? Why haven’t they been wiped out for their smugness? Why don’t unicorns have cloven hooves, goat beards and lion tails like they do in heraldry? How am I supposed to sympathise with people who literally claim their lifespan makes their lives worth more than everyone else’s? At least we don’t have dark elves anymore.

    Halflings: Universally unpleasant to behold. Slingshots are not slings, the latter are practical and deadly weapons, and the former are crossbows as designed by someone who hates mechanical efficiency. They don’t have a consistent sort of military dress, most of them have no business on a battlefield, and their luck is both mechanically and thematically awful.

    Tigrans: I don’t like the half naked cat people. there seems to be a substantial air gap between the top of the sun guard’s helm and his head. I’m not fond of Yaka or the concept of animal people.

    Frostlings: visually, they have room for improvement. Thematically, desperate vikings lead into battle by ice-hurling seithkona are wonderful beyond words, though the royal guard step outside this theme, and make me sad. Also, why do they explode, in universe?

    Gameplay
    Humans are best here. They have some strong synergies, especially after you fixed the LSM, but aren’t overpowered for having them, nor underpowered when the AI fails to exploit them, putting them a cut above the similar frostlings and tigrans. Orcs are a close second, for always having war cry to make tactics just a little more varied, even on pure beatstick units. Goblins are fun, but the AI doesn’t like their squishy flesh, and warg riders have lost their former use as anti-pike cavalry.

    Further variation in races is fine, as long as class remains more important (Human or even Orc sorcerers should be far more magical than Elf warlords) and dark elves never come back.

    #216108

    I think more dwellings are the way to go, with the possible exception of living archons. I mean mechanically, you already have a full set of fantasy things in the game now, so it would be hard to avoid overlap (dark elves with the dwarves and goblins, for instance).

    #216112

    Gilafron
    Member

    All for asymmetrical races at the cost of balance. That’s what made Starcraft far superior to the original Warcraft. Those were some racial variance. I’d like to see different units available via different buildings. For instance, Goblin skewer (pike unit) is available on barracks and they have no infantry. The possibilities are endless. Plus, I think you can get “close” on balance. The variance will just make it a lot more fun.

    #216113

    No one has thought to mention different building chains for races! You’re all thinking “one more unit” or “bigger teeth ” think bigger! Think unique racial mechanics (for example, free production of Goblins – but with really crappy stats) g the varied healing in game is a good example of what I’m talking about.

    #216126

    Brhaspati
    Member

    In direct relation to the pole, I think that the developed race/class mechanics was a very good decision. It’s always risky to change the game mechanics but AoW3 is a success – a balanced and fun game.

    I love to play the elves as I have developed a certain play style with them. In the very early game upgrade some initiates to storm sisters who with gold medal get stun. In combination with archers, unicorn riders who have the phase ability and one or two hard hitting units (from dwellings for example) very much suit my taste. So even now specific play styles specific to race are possible.

    Don’t quite like the look or orcs. In the previous game releases they looked much more badass, wild and savage. Now they remind me of strong sad froggy people. Logically appreciating races and their looks very much depends on an individual’s preferences.

    That all being sad, yes, an enhanced race-specific mechanics will help the game, quite a bit perhaps, but not necessarily at the expense of class.

    Also the developer’s interaction with the player community has been superb and is the way to go. Not saying it to flatter but because it’s so important and unfortunately rare to see.

    As for the future – AoW3, in my opinion, is a major success and a very good game. Now that it’s here I’d love to see a fantasy game with much more depth in the empire building, diplomacy, and fantasy-world feel aspects. No mad army building rush and every city behaving the same, but a more subtle absorption in a fantasy world. Of course it is risky to attempt such an innovation, but who knows, it could make a legendary game…

    #216130

    SeeR
    Member

    There is always room for improving the game Sik … but u should really take a well deserved rest.

    Go get some R&R or perhaps just design a few new racial heros to keep everybody on toes for next small patch…

    #216144

    Host
    Member

    Obviously I consider every single draconian model to be an utter travesty compared to their former form, but I can accept that re-making each draconian model would take truly excessive amounts of effort. Adding a different reptilian race with a reptilian face – in the lizardmen most likely – would be appreciated, however.

    I would personally prefer that, in future games, classes did not exist – but if they must exist, then giving too much variation to the race at the expense of class would be bad. Giving them more variation at the cost of balance is a must, though. Anyone who’s looked at strategy games can tell you that synchronous gameplay was thoroughly defeated and largely removed from the ecosystem, and for good reason. People play Starcraft 2, not Warcraft 2.

    #216153

    Bouh
    Member

    I find the last question very, very interesting as it clearly shows that those who seek for a normalized game in the name of balance are actualy a clear minority despite being very vocal. Now I’m affraid there is also a good proportion of people who want diversity and asymetric gameplay without realizing that some proposals go against this. Still I’m glad to see that my extremist views on the balance are actualy shared by a lot of people.

    #216167

    greyclouds
    Member

    No one has thought to mention different building chains for races! You’re all thinking “one more unit” or “bigger teeth ” think bigger! Think unique racial mechanics (for example, free production of Goblins – but with really crappy stats) g the varied healing in game is a good example of what I’m talking about.

    This!

    I think that racial governance economic boosts hit on a thread that should be followed up. I really enjoy terraforming wetlands while playing goblins because of the dual economic and logistics bonuses.

    This is unrelated, but I would also like to see some new end game mechanics. Global ultimate spells are nice, but I think there needs to be something more in the endgame after a player has exhausted class research options.

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