Races Survey and Terraria Wonders

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This topic contains 196 replies, has 68 voices, and was last updated by  BB Shockwave 6 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #216857

    ten9
    Member

    Thanks for the clarification, SikBok.

    In that case, for me, simply adding a tier 3 or tier 4 unit to each race, would probably tilt the balance just enough to the races to bring back the fantasy feel. This does not necessarily have to be a racial unit (rather not actually). It can be the leprechaun for the halflings, the Karagh for the Goblins etc.

    Making certain race/class combos not possible to choose would also be a good move for me, but I realize that that will probably be a no go. (Elven Dreadnought etc.) Maybe an option to turn of the possibility to choose weird race/class combos?

    #216861

    BB Shockwave
    Member

    At this point, I am just not understanding why so many people are still unhappy and demanding changes. Frankly I feel the game is now, with the latest patch, is as good as it gets.I’d rather have the developers focus on adding some new (or old, from AOW1-2) races and neutral units rather than doing another revamp. One thing that annoyed me in Shadow Magic was how each patch practically rewrote the game, you suddenly realized “oh this unit no longer has a ranged attack…” and such.

    The game is good, one of the best turn-based games out there, and with Heroes 7 promising to be another fall on the face for Ubisoft, King’s Bounty only doing half-hearted mods and selling them as full games, and the kickstartered games like the Elemental franchise and Warlock being full of bugs or more on the Civilization side of complexity, AoW3 has no real challenger in this genre now. Let’s not ruin it by changing the game too much. It all works now, all I want are minor changes here and there maybe, and I’d gladly pay another 40$ or so for an expansion that adds a new race or two.

    Thanks for the clarification, SikBok.

    In that case, for me, simply adding a tier 3 or tier 4 unit to each race, would probably tilt the balance just enough to the races to bring back the fantasy feel. This does not necessarily have to be a racial unit (rather not actually). It can be the leprechaun for the halflings, the Karagh for the Goblins etc.

    Making certain race/class combos not possible to choose would also be a good move for me, but I realize that that will probably be a no go. (Elven Dreadnought etc.) Maybe an option to turn of the possibility to choose weird race/class combos?

    There is a good reason that most Tier IV units are summonable over multiple turns only, or built in independent cities – if you could have EVERY town churn out say, Gold Dragons, the game would quickly turn to armies of Tier IVs clashing. Not to mention that while getting to Class Tier IV is a long road, building the requisite buildings in cities could be done much more easily with production point booster treasure sites and spells. So you’d see these much more early that Class Tier IVs, and… it’d result in the abandonment of those.

    #216870

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    God, no.
    Agree with Shockwave.
    If anything, as said, we could get something race/class-COMBO unique, but there will probably no bigger game killer than a racial T4 – even the racial T3 can already be a bit overwhelming with its spamming potential.

    #216880

    Nodor
    Member

    Is anyone else seeing the “More class” vs “More race” breakdown as a preference for “more race” for the immersive fantasy types and “more class” for the players that prefer the strategic combat?

    I tend to feel like my leader (who has a class) is leading his people (who can only partially absorb his skills without losing their identity) to victory. As such, I don’t have any issues with immersion.

    I also tend to look at racial bonuses and race governance bonuses and min-max along those lines, so for me, each race is different as it changes how I play any given class.

    #216891

    ten9
    Member

    Exactly. What is a game killer for one type of player makes it a better game for another. The goal is to find the sweet spot to satisfy everyone 🙂

    If tier 3 or tier 4 racial spamming potential is the first thing that comes to your mind when it is proposed, that tells me exactly where you are coming from: the competitive players, that also tend to focus on balance, less randomness and less asymmetry as a result. The ones that focus on strategy, not the immersive fantasy types.

    Spamming potential is a technical issue. Here we are talking about whether the race/class balance is right or is open for improvement.

    Of course there would have to be a bit of re-balancing the game when Triumph would add another tier 3 racial unit. I’m just asking to tip the balance a little bit towards the races. Just to satisfy a large group of players that love to play the game and have a real connection to their starting race.

    #216905

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Actually, it’s fairly simple: every additional racial unit that can be produced in towns will make the game flatter because it will make the difference between classes so much smaller – or makes another racial unit redundant or both.
    Every SUMMONED racial unit would diminish the difference between producing, summoning and mixed classes.
    At THAT angle every gain would be also a loss – so that makes no sense. The way it is with purely racial units seems just right. There is nothing missing, nothing to add.

    What you ACTUALLY want is making the difference between class units of different races bigger yet – that’s why you came up with Goblin Fanatics instead of Crusaders, and THAT is actually making sense (as opposed to simply slapping more racial stuff on).

    #216914

    Nodor
    Member

    What you ACTUALLY want is making the difference between class units of different races bigger yet – that’s why you came up with Goblin Fanatics instead of Crusaders, and THAT is actually making sense (as opposed to simply slapping more racial stuff on).

    One of my favorite things is Dwarven Manticores with defense strike. I love the Elven Mounted Archers. Undead, Theocrat, and sorcerer buffs to supports make it hard to choose a class to play as frostlings.

    The Rogue buff’s to irregulars seem to change how the Tigran’s play relative to other classes. Again, all of these things are racial and class combos that have a lot of synergy.

    More chances for synergy would create more options to play around. But I fear for the day the races get superiority and I end up playing all of them like I do human warlord… City spam into tier 3 spam because the class units take to long to research relative to the incremental value they add.

    Good luck out there however you play.

    #216923

    Joohaan
    Member

    What you ACTUALLY want is making the difference between class units of different races bigger yet – that’s why you came up with Goblin Fanatics instead of Crusaders, and THAT is actually making sense (as opposed to simply slapping more racial stuff on).

    Not sure if it’s only me that post was directed at, but I could agree with this last statement. It all adds up to the same thing really… intelligent (and actual) variety and consistency without breaking immersion. Regardless of how that’s done, that stays on top of my wish list. Best case scenario would be either one of my earlier suggestions, obviously 😉 …

    Wouldn’t know if it’s better to slap more racial stuff on or adding more unique “racial” class units. Haven’t put very much thought into that.

    I’m not saying classes are inherently a bad thing, but like some people pointed out their current state coupled with race breaks immersion and makes zero sense in alot of cases. To me atleast.

    #216924

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Well, for me this is a non-argument, because for me NOTHING actually makes sense – it’s all nonsense. Admittedly, it’s advanced nonsense, but SENSE?
    So that’s something I’m not buying. Immersion is more or less another word for what you are willing enough to accept, but sense has nothing to do with it.

    I mean, look at chess. Great game, no immersion. Abstract. I’d add terrain. But an army of chess players wouldcrucify me for that heresy. “But having terrain would make sense. It adds an element of randomness and reality.” Still, they would kill me.

    #216930

    ten9
    Member

    I think it makes a lot of sense to try to connect to the existing frame and knowledge a lot of people have about the fantasy races if that means they will have a lot more fun.

    Again, for a lot of people this is not an abstract game like chess or tic tac toe. But I’ll leave it at this. I think the opinions of the different types of players are clear.

    #216952

    meeber
    Member

    Let me preface this by saying I don’t play multiplayer. I like imbalance between the races and classes. With AoW:Shadow Magic, I think most would agree the Nomads were somewhat overpowered, but it didn’t hurt the game in my opinion.

    In AoW:SM I also loved the visual diversity of the Shadow Demons, I’d love to see them appear in the next expansion.

    Well I do play both Multiplayer and Single player a lot and I also don’t care about balance. Never have in most RPG Strategy games. So I would love to se all sorts of races and classes with unique traits in the game.

    I have played AOW:SM for years (both SP and MP) and the Archon and Undead were the most powerful races. I did not see the Nomads as all that powerful.

    I would love to see the Shadow Demons, Syrons, Dark Elves, and Lizard Men put back into the game.

    #216958

    Wintersend
    Member

    I strongly agree on more asymmetrical races. One of the things that killed Heroes of Might and Magic for me is they made every faction be too similar. I don’t want that to happen here.

    #216959

    nspannaus
    Member

    Posting to confirm that this is the way we intended it. In a perfect world we’d just add more, but in the real world we have to make choices.

    Oh. In that case, I *totally* misunderstood the survey question. I thought the implication was that, from a game design point of view, emphasis on race would necessarily require an active de-emphasis on class. And vice-versa. That made sense to me.

    But knowing that you’re simply asking which we’d like to see developed more (considering the limited resources available), this whole thread takes on a new context.

    #216961

    nspannaus
    Member

    Between race and class, there are–what–64 combinations? I think what people want is each one of those possible combinations to feel unique. That’s the goal. In terms of achieving that, I think there are a LOT of great ideas here.

    I’m inclined to agree that the people who most earnestly want to see immersion and asymmetry are primarily “single-player” enthusiasts. I count myself as one. Does catering to the multiplayer game hinder the single-player experience in some ways?

    #216973

    Alenrodaer32
    Member

    Welcome.
    I classes rather play automatically. At the Dreadnought, Sorcerer, Archdruid, there is no way such a difference in units (mechanical and recalled). For this randomness bother summoning. What does not change the fact that my favorite class is the Archdruid.

    So I focus on the individual race, this adds a lot of neutral cities that I really like.
    I try to use all of the units.

    I like the performance / presentation races. Dwarves are great, but do not play them a lot (going so easily). I do not like the Draconians.

    Triumph sees the need for differentiation of races. Also new are designed to extrude the diagram as much as possible. And for old new skills and stronger links with the elements.
    For me, the game is very very good and so could already be.

    I like that I can connect every race of each class, and I can be angry, neutral or good. Changes in this aspect not like me.
    I would like the classes recalling the selection element had an impact on the recalled units. So that my mage water much more often invoked the ice creatures.

    New units for races as 1-2. They would be at the level of T1 and T2 preferably invoked evolved. I do not want new racial T3 and T4. I do not like their spam. Instead, I would prefer a unique building thoroughbred. Or buildings operating on such basis as the one from Yeti. Except that would have to be programmed to were in the initial domain or by her (at the metropolis).
    Maybe add some technology and spels (available only for a specific races) racial associated with racial bydynkami. But this would already be a lot of work. Example for Draconians: technology evolution allows to build an incubator, which will unlock new unit and new improvement to it (another technology and the next level of the building).

    #216985

    Alenrodaer32
    Member

    Spells garrison.
    The new building gives mana and basic spells for the city during its defense. Something like a local hero, a mechanism similar to That of Heroes 2.
    For this second building race giving the spell garrison. Example for Draconians: Provide dragon sanctuary would.
    The first level “temperature change” – renewal of parts of movement points the unit. The second level “Smaocza blood” regeneration for one unit on the x turns.
    Level three “Dragon heritage” + x is the regenerate per round for all units on the x turns.
    Thanks to tampering major strongholds of the enemy will be even more difficult. For this more will be built.

    Why not have a normal and simple edit posts?
    How to remove a post from the top #216977?

    #216994

    BB Shockwave
    Member

    If tier 3 or tier 4 racial spamming potential is the first thing that comes to your mind when it is proposed, that tells me exactly where you are coming from: the competitive players, that also tend to focus on balance, less randomness and less asymmetry as a result. The ones that focus on strategy, not the immersive fantasy types.

    Umm, NO. Definite NO. I have never even played multiplayer, and am not likely to do so ever (lack of time). No, I am having vivid memories of Shadow Magic’s second level and the Tigran AI who came at me with stacks of EIGHT Watchers, or other serious Tier IV spamming. If these came into play, you bet your sweet bippies that the AI will spam them, because that’s what the AI already does with Tier IVs.

    Is anyone else seeing the “More class” vs “More race” breakdown as a preference for “more race” for the immersive fantasy types and “more class” for the players that prefer the strategic combat?

    I tend to feel like my leader (who has a class) is leading his people (who can only partially absorb his skills without losing their identity) to victory. As such, I don’t have any issues with immersion.

    I also tend to look at racial bonuses and race governance bonuses and min-max along those lines, so for me, each race is different as it changes how I play any given class.

    I like to “roleplay” too despite my interest being more in the strategy. If I play a good-aligned Keeper of Peace, I’ll act like one, if I decide I’ll rather go for mono-culture I might migrate towns to my race but then found towns of the race I uprooted via settlers as an “apology” ’cause it’s the right and good thing to do. I’ll not ally with or accept vassal offers from say, Undead Archons… and so on. But that doesn’t mean I’m uninterested in strategy, and I’ll use units I liberate from dungeons, even if it leads to mixed armies. Currently one of the “hobbies” of my Theocrat is to “collect” other classes’ tigran units from neutral armies via conversions and charm, as if in a bid to “unify” the land. I even periodically bombard an AI leader with city trade offers to get his one Tigran city – having built their beacon I feel the race should be under my benevolent tyrann… erm, rule. 😀

    #217020

    Vasilas
    Member

    “In future games from Triumph I would like…”

    So you are done with AoW3? no mods support?

    Also why at the cost of something else? You can have race and class variety at the same time.

    #217026

    ten9
    Member

    If tier 3 or tier 4 racial spamming potential is the first thing that comes to your mind when it is proposed, that tells me exactly where you are coming from: the competitive players, that also tend to focus on balance, less randomness and less asymmetry as a result. The ones that focus on strategy, not the immersive fantasy types.

    Umm, NO. Definite NO. I have never even played multiplayer, and am not likely to do so ever (lack of time). No, I am having vivid memories of Shadow Magic’s second level and the Tigran AI who came at me with stacks of EIGHT Watchers, or other serious Tier 4 spamming. If these came into play, you bet your sweet bippies that the AI will spam them, because that’s what the AI already does with Tier IVs.

    Tier 3 or 4 race units are but a way to help improve immersion. The immersion is more tied to races than to classes, because of general knowledge people happen to have of the races. The races still lack importance, which for some of us is a bit of a let down, because the fantasy feel is more important than general strategic gameplay with as many combinations as possible.
    There are other ways to help immersion through making races a bit more important (see this thread). Some, however, are probably not viable because they would require to much effort (money).

    You have a valid concern. The AI, the way it is programmed now, may be able to easily spit out a lot of these units. This I believe is a technical issue that can be addressed and tuned. It shouldn’t be to easy to get these high tier race units.
    I must add however that I never really encountered this problem in AOW-SM. Maybe you should simply lower the level of the AI?
    Really, I think it is silly to argue that we shouldn’t have high tier race units just because the AI will build them. The AI simply should also consider class units/spells etc. because they have their own merits.

    #217028

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    The races still lack importance…

    You can’t be serious.

    #217035

    Draxynnic
    Member

    God, no.
    Agree with Shockwave.
    If anything, as said, we could get something race/class-COMBO unique, but there will probably no bigger game killer than a racial T4 – even the racial T3 can already be a bit overwhelming with its spamming potential.

    An additional racial unit at T3 would, I think, actually have the potential to reduce the spamming feel, as there’s more variety in tier 3 units.

    On the other hand, of course, there are other issues: for instance, it might actually end up reducing the importance of race if the new units end up overlapping with one another. For instance, flying units are currently in the minority among the races: if adding additional tier 3s lead to more races with flyers, this could lead to elf, draconian, and halfling cities having less strategic value, and classes that have flying units of their own have less of an advantage if flying units are more common.

    On the gripping hand, though, I disagree that there are racial units that aren’t affected by class. While no class affects every type, classes and some specialisations have upgrades that affect specific categories of units. For example, even on release when racial variation on class units was low, high elf warlords were popular because Thoroughbred Mounts gave a big boost to gryphon riders, while draconian rogues could get backstabbing Flyers. What this means is that an extra tier 3 might actually allow for more interaction with class, as it’s one more opportunity for an interesting synergy with a class upgrade.

    I strongly agree on more asymmetrical races. One of the things that killed Heroes of Might and Magic for me is they made every faction be too similar. I don’t want that to happen here.

    For me, it was when they went from 3DO’s paradigm that some of the factions were essentially collections of similarly-minded creatures united under a strong leader, to every faction explicitly being the army of one group or another. Particularly when in some cases it was immediately obvious what they were ripping off to do so *coughcoughwarhammerdarkelvescough*

    #217048

    BB Shockwave
    Member

    Ten-9, what, pray tell, stops you from “being immersed” in the game? I mean… I imagine you are an avid turn based strategy game player (as I noticed other then us, not many gamers are aware of AoW3), so you probably played King’s Bounty – do you, for example, refuse to use Paladins with say, an orc army despite their resurrection powers, or say, equip heavy armor with a mage Amelie because that’s not how wizards work in some RPGs?

    AoW3 lets you do whatever you want with your game, especially in single player, unless you crank up the difficulty to high. Nothing stops you from using Race units instead of class, and just relying on the class passive upgrades and spells, for example. Like, an Orc Warlord’s Cavalry and Shock Troopers are just as powerful as any warlord class unit, with the right upgrades. But even using class units, they look the part. I’ll never mistake a halfling barbarian with an orc barbarian or a Draconian Mounted Archer with an Orc version. What is so terribly jarring to you that you cannot enjoy the game?

    Let me tell you, I had no problems enjoying AoW3 from the start, something I cannot say for AoW2. I played AoW1 to the end in a few weeks waaay back then – AoW2, I still haven’t finished it. Things annoyed me to no end – how Tier I units became obsolete even at gold medal very soon and died instantly when attacked by higher tiers or (shudder) ballistae. How concealment no longer worked, making some racial units much weaker. How ranged units trumped melee ones 75% of the time, and how much the AI exploited this (as above, see ballistae). I threw up my hands in anger and stopped the Fire Campaign for YEARS after Yaka nicely went and killed my Phoenixes with FIRE spells. Phoenixes that, mind you, are immune to fire. How enemy dragons devastate whole armies, but when you have them, oddly a few Tier I swordsmen can suddenly crit-hit them for huge damage. To this day I never figured out how the attack-defense-damage thing works in AoW2.

    So, yeah, as much as I loved the races, the lore, the spells, the funny bios Shadow Magic added to heroes and units, it took me many years and many “let’s try and do this” coming back to age-old saved games to finish the game, because of the mechanics that made no sense and the rampant “cheating” of the AI.

    I could not “immerse” myself when I was slamming my fist on the keyboard repeatedly in frustration after the upteenth replay of the same battle – where, every time an important unit of mine died, I had to surrender, click load, confirm that NO I don’t want to save it, then load it again and attack the enemy again… only to do the same thing again when in the first round 5 ballistae turns my level 10 hero into a pincushion with oddly accurate critical hits that MY ballistae could never reproduce.

    With AoW3, I often have to FORCE myself at 2-3AM to finally go to sleep and not do “one more round”, while during the AI movement I immerse myself in the made-up-myself “story” of my heroes and units as they explore the underground, go undercover behind enemy lines for a daring assault or enter a dungeon and try not killing their fellow Tigrans but conver them to the true faith of Yaka. 😀

    #217058

    11balanced11
    Member

    Just my 5 cents on ‘racial T4’: PLEASE NO 🙂

    The only possible way – make it on the top of racial governance lines. But in that case it will make ‘monocultural’ ethnic cleaning strategy much more popular… Anyway the idea is doubtful and wouldn’t recoup the devs efforts.

    #217059

    Not sure, whether I understand the statment:

    IN FUTURE GAMES FROM TRIUMPH I PREFER TO HAVE MORE UNIQUE – EVEN ASYMMETRICAL – RACES OVER HAVING A MORE EASILY BALANCED GAME.

    The races are to be different for my opinion. Sure not only in the outfit. So, I think, they are to be asymetrical.
    Otheside, if a race meet a “uncomfortable” race and just loose without any chance is also more than very bad.
    So, they are to be assymetrical, unique, but also well-balanced as well.

    Asymmetrical but balanced! I fully agree. For example at the moment i have the impression that the necromancer has a problem against the Theocrat, (not a race but a class issue) – A big no-no in my book.

    #217061

    Buczer
    Member

    *Your Opinion May Varry material, please take note its subjective point of view, i do not say that is the “only truth”*

    About “race vs class” debate, i think the current system works great. I repeat – CURRENT. Not that in horrible game that we had on premiere vanilla. I’m only here becouse of all changes done to race/class balance, bigger diversity, less monotone gameplay. Zaskow might be controversial, but his multiple “diversity/flavour crusades” were proven to be right in hindsight. Vanilla AoW3 was bad game and its clearly vissible from a perspective. In what it evolved after few patches is just amazing.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by  President.
    #217068

    BB Shockwave
    Member

    For me, it was when they went from 3DO’s paradigm that some of the factions were essentially collections of similarly-minded creatures united under a strong leader, to every faction explicitly being the army of one group or another. Particularly when in some cases it was immediately obvious what they were ripping off to do so *coughcoughwarhammerdarkelvescough*

    HOMM is pretty much dead to me after IV. I only ever paid Ubi for their HOMMIII HD edition, anything else they made was different shades from mediocre (V) to terrible (VI) and VII promising to be a new low (have you seen the game interface? looks like it’s blank brown boxes with Arial font type…).
    And yes, old diverse monster-filled Dungeon >>>> 50 Shades of Purple D&D Drow.

    #217073

    Joohaan
    Member

    Well, for me this is a non-argument, because for me NOTHING actually makes sense – it’s all nonsense. Admittedly, it’s advanced nonsense, but SENSE?
    So that’s something I’m not buying. Immersion is more or less another word for what you are willing enough to accept, but sense has nothing to do with it.

    I mean, look at chess. Great game, no immersion. Abstract. I’d add terrain. But an army of chess players wouldcrucify me for that heresy. “But having terrain would make sense. It adds an element of randomness and reality.” Still, they would kill me.

    When I use ‘sense’ I mean it’s logical within the framework already established by earlier games, the story, the world the game takes place in, lore and fantasy in general. I suppose you could say “It’s magic… It’s a game… It’s not real so anything is possible” and I couldn’t argue with that… the developers control the story. Still need “rules” though. If you break or arbitrarily change the rules, I’m gonna have a harder time getting invested. I don’t want to have to work too hard to justify different aspects of the game. That breaks immersion.

    It’s a bit simplistic maybe, but your example on chess works the other way aswell… We had a set of rules…a world, lore, story and all that. And with the current class/race system, those things changed. Alot of things for the better. Some things for the worse maybe. Can’t be surprised when some people disagree with that change.

    I suppose you’d be right that in some way immersion would mean what I’d be willing to accept or not. And I find it hard to accept some race+class combos, as they currently are. It’s not logical to see elven dreadnoughts. It’s not logical to see goblin theocrats. It’s not logical to see halfling phalanxes. It’s not logical to see the goblin, human and tigran crusader looking/being more or less the same.

    Things like that, doesn’t make sense to me…

    I’m not asking for a revamp right at this moment. I understand that the game is as it is, there’s no changing that and I’m more than happy with it as it stands today. But the point of the survey is to gauge people’s opinions. And it is indeed a non-argument… we’re just discussing opinions. To each his own.

    #217076

    Joohaan
    Member

    AoW3 lets you do whatever you want with your game, especially in single player, unless you crank up the difficulty to high. Nothing stops you from using Race units instead of class, and just relying on the class passive upgrades and spells, for example. Like, an Orc Warlord’s Cavalry and Shock Troopers are just as powerful as any warlord class unit, with the right upgrades. But even using class units, they look the part. I’ll never mistake a halfling barbarian with an orc barbarian or a Draconian Mounted Archer with an Orc version. What is so terribly jarring to you that you cannot enjoy the game?

    That would shut people out of certain aspects of the game though, wouldn’t it? Of course I could set up the AI to always play as an orc warlord, a human theocrat, an elven druid, a dwarven dreadnought. Classes that works perfectly for that race. But then I’d have a too few choices I think.

    I’m still convinced I’d be much happier if they’d just go all in on one of my earlier suggestions 😉 …

    So, errrm… since we’äre all decided and agreed, let’s ask them to make every class unit for each race unique in almost every way! Models, skills, back stories… Mmmmm… All in favor? ^^ 😀

    #217112

    Agree with 90% of what BBShockwave said. NO racial T4 please, god forbid. Reasons are

    (1) This would work further towards strengthening races vis-à-vis classes. As per now, race does influence class, at times hugely, while class impact on races is more indirect at best. IMHO there is no need to emphasize the role of race in the game, and hence it would be a nightmare to properly balance, as others have said.

    (2) The diversity argument does not hold. There are enough opportunities to gain non-class T4 as it is (summons and dwellings, anyone?), leaving the potential variety at T4-level with little to be desired.

    As for T3, while I concede that a single unit for every race may not seem much, there are still classes, summons, dwellings…if anything, there could be more unit type variety at this tier with fewer infantry/cavalry, but more support and especially irregular ones. The Tigran Sphinx was a step in the right direction. Maybe, just maybe, there could be some kind of T4 irregular. Sometime, somewhere.

    EDIT: While not a multiplayer I second the issue of the current strategic imbalance of races with a flying T3 vs those without one. Especially those pesky elves, being advantaged pretty much everywhere else already, do not need another positive distinction.

    #217119

    nspannaus
    Member

    About “race vs class” debate, i think the current system works great. I repeat – CURRENT. Not that in horrible game that we had on premiere vanilla. I’m only here becouse of all changes done to race/class balance, bigger diversity, less monotone gameplay. Zaskow might be controversial, but his multiple “diversity/flavour crusades” were proven to be right in hindsight. Vanilla AoW3 was bad game and its clearly vissible from a perspective. In what it evolved after few patches is just amazing.

    This bears repeating. While I don’t think the original release was “horrible,” I would like to commend the devs for building on it to create the incredible game we have today. I wish all game studios had that kind of diligence and care when it comes to their post-release product.

    Thank you, Triumph! I honestly hope you’re getting as much out of this endeavor as your team is putting into it.

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