Racial Irregulars "longevity" in games

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Racial Irregulars "longevity" in games

This topic contains 22 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  HadMatter 8 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #50296

    vota dc
    Member

    Being the cheapest unit without any building requirements I guess that racial T1 irregulars are the first unit that you will leave (maybe rogue are an exception because buff them) when economy gets better and you upgrade your city, even more than other games because they don’t seem anymore polearmed and specialized in something like AOW2 but more multipurpose being better at melee than archers and having a one shot ranged attack that encourage to use them in the front lines because unlike arches you don’t have to worry about multiple shots.
    Now how much “lives” an irregular? Draconian Hatchling having the evolve ability seems the first to go away but at least he can evolve in T2 elder so you will produce until elders are unlocked. Human Civic Guard and Orc Spearthrower could live even less because seems even less special. Elven Apprentice has a different type of damage than longbow so should lives at least until sisters are unlocked. Goblin Untouchable has tunneling so he will live until big beetle is available. Dwarf Prospector seems a weaker copy of crossbow dwarf but tunneling skill could be even more useful because no big beetle means no one else that dig among racial units? He could lives forever?

    #50330

    Hehaw
    Member

    From what I’ve seen in Lets Plays they seem to be obsolete pretty much as soon as you pump T1 archers, but I could be wrong. Well, except maybe dwarves, because their crossbowmen seem to be really bad =/.

    #50335

    Gloweye
    Member

    Dwarf Runemasters have Tunneling as well, Seen in one of BBB’s latest Youtube vids

    #50344

    T-1 irregulars are useful throughout the game as cheap, produce-able scouts, and they sometimes can evolve into better units, although that is quite rare in practice. certain upgrades boost their speed and vision range, so they are often worth keeping if you are a Sorcerer/Arch-Druid focused on summoning heavy hitters.

    The combat ability does go down by the end of the game, yes, but strategic mobility and vision is also greatly important.

    #50373

    Poodlec
    Member

    Well, some thoughts about it:
    Dwarven, goblin and human irregulars pretty good. They combine descent ranged and melee attack, so they can be still useful in midgame(especially with rogue, as was mentioned).
    Hatchlings have fire spit, so they will be useful against high def/low res/low hp races such as goblins and orcs. Somewhat “niche” unit, but still good.
    Elven adepts – same as hatchlings, and add to it Sorc stuns and shock dmg buffs and they can be pretty effective.
    Throw in that they really cheap in gold and production and they will be first candidates to garrison newly found sities and be “cannon fodder” for shielding your more valuable units from threats and “suck” enemy AP’s on retaliation attacks, so they won’t hit more valuable units or will not act at next turn. Scouting and raiding can be leaved to them in cases you do not want/not have mana for t1 summons or do not have them at all(warlord, for example). They won’t be core troops of your army(Rogues will be exeptions sometimes), but it won’t be something unusual to see couple of irregulars in hero stack somewhere around midgame or even late game.

    #50461

    Draxynnic
    Member

    You might stop building them as other troops take priority, but unless you’re really at the point where you just can’t fit any more units into your army, irregulars always have a use. The ability to to move and take a shot at full power is VERY valuable, particularly if you’ve got the Explorer upgrade that increases their movement. Getting into the flank arc of an enemy unit, putting a shot into them, and getting them to turn and face your irregular so one of your big hitters can also flank them is a valuable force multiplier.

    #50485

    Untouchables just hurt my Elven Manticore Rider.

    They are useful.

    #50578

    melkathi
    Member

    Untouchables just hurt my Elven Manticore Rider.

    They are useful.

    Noty just your manticore rider, they caught one of the Valley of Wonders’ most prominent criminals.

    #50659

    terrahero
    Member

    With empire upgrades i think they will remain a very cost effective force. And sometimes they get special gimmicks. Like the Martyr from Theocrat or the Engineer for Dreadnought. And having some of these units in certain stacks can be very usefull.

    #50664

    Erwin
    Member

    I used to dislike irregular units till I discovered some of them actually hurt a lot when used flanking enemy troops for almost no money (think of the human/orc ones). Also they are mostly the cheapest option to defend your cities when spiders/scoundrels are lurking around the corner of newly taken cities. There is always a use for them somehow throughout the game.

    #50787

    Poodlec
    Member

    Engineer for Dreadnought.

    Engineers count as archers, if i’m not mistaken.

    #50814

    b0rsuk
    Member

    I bet bards are also irregulars.

    Can multiple martyrs use the ability on a single unit ? Shock Troopers have unlimited retaliations, so…

    Drink recipe – Backfire
    1/8 shot Orc Shock Trooper
    5/8 shot Martyr
    1/8 shot Instant Wrath
    1/8 shot As Many Buffs As You can Think Of

    WIN

    #50822

    Draxynnic
    Member

    Engineers are irregular. Which is actually quite important, since there are some engineeresque upgrades that dreadnoughts can research that apply to irregulars in general, not just engineers.

    #50858

    Poodlec
    Member

    Can multiple martyrs use the ability on a single unit ?

    Nope, Martyr’s link can be cast only on unit that was not linked yet. You can see it in Theo video with Tombles(when he introducing Theo units).

    #51527

    gorlum
    Member

    In one of the recent dreadnought lets play videos it is shown one of the empire upgrades for this class which gives “sabotage” ability to all irregular units and it not only damage machines, but walls too (for 40 damage). So it seems that, at least with dreadnought class, irregular units can be very useful in sieges or against another dreadnought player.

    #51584

    liclic
    Member

    About irregulars, don’t forget scoundrels and assassins that are also irregular and racials! And I think a rogue will use them during most of his games…

    #51681

    Poodlec
    Member

    And I think a rogue will use them during most of his games…

    Considering the fact that Rogue upgrades give bonuses to irregulars – they will be most used units in Rogue army. Expect Rogues with air and explore mastery will build their army mostly from irregulars and flyers/cavalry to have maximum mobility.

    #51719

    Gloweye
    Member

    I’d expect Sabotage as a rogue skill….not that it doesn’t fit with dreadnought. Maybe rogue’s get it to.

    #51743

    b0rsuk
    Member

    Okay, so can a Martyr use his ability on another Martyr ? Is it possible to create Martyr Chains ?

    #51745

    Turnil
    Member

    what would be the point?

    #51801

    Poodlec
    Member

    Okay, so can a Martyr use his ability on another Martyr ? Is it possible to create Martyr Chains ?

    Yes on both, but can you give more detailed explanation why do so ? What you gain from two units shielding one instead of two at the same time ? All dmg will get the last martyr in chain, so you will not shield more dmg, if only save time so no need to cast martyr in the middle of battle when first will die, but it’s really doubtful decision.

    #52004

    akhier
    Member

       If you Matyr chain then when the enemy decides to focus fire a specific unit they can’t kill it till they end all your matyrs. It might not seem like much but one way to abuse it would be to have an army of one good unit and 5 matyrs then cast a lot of buff spells on the good unit. Normally you would want to spread your buffs around but I would much rather have the example Shock Trooper and his unlimited retaliations with as much strength as possible. Just run up into their face and start smashing.

    Edit: Oh and matyr chain a high level hero and you could probably clear out most normal armies. I definitely think that the ability to matyr a matyr who is matyring someone else should be removed.

    #52033

    HadMatter
    Member

    Does invisibility have any effect on tactical combat?

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