Regrowth and Spirit Elemental for Creation Spec ?

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Regrowth and Spirit Elemental for Creation Spec ?

This topic contains 15 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  Gloweye 7 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 16 posts - 1 through 16 (of 16 total)
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  • #201371

    Nerdfish
    Member

    There is no point taking creation. It’s not fun, it’s not strong and it doesn’t have good synergies.

    I’d like to suggest a couple simple additions for this underused spec. Regrowth for Adept, and Spirit Elemental for master.

    Regrowth is a powerful spell, but it’s not more powerful than seeker, cardinal culling or stone skin. Creations Adepts gets a advantage to their heroes with this spell.

    At master level, Spirit Elemental allow summoning of healers, this gives the spec a synergy with class that normally don’t have healers, like warlords.

    Hope you like the idea.

    #201374

    nevodark
    Member

    I kind of agree but i do occasionally take creation if i want the heal.

    I think it probably needs something adding to make it more interesting to take but regrowth is probably too strong as it heals units to full HP every in the strategic map.

    All units having regrowth would make some pretty snowbally armys. especially as they will die much much less in auto combat.

    Imo i think that regrowth having an effect in and out of combat does make it much stronger then stone skin and seeker.

    #201377

    Nerdfish
    Member

    No no, nevo, regrowth as a combat spell, you put it on a unit and it last for one battle. Maybe 15 mana.

    #201380

    zeelilus
    Member

    The heal in creation has good synergies with classes that have high HP.

    I find it mildly fun, not nearly as much as keeper of the peace however.

    #201381

    Ravenholme
    Member

    The devs have stated before (around the release of Golden Realms, when a bunch of us were pushing for it) that Spirit and Blight Elementals would not be added to the Creation/Destruction masteries as they were not going to add expansion content to base game specialisations.

    And Creation Mastery is a bit meh, but Creation Adept is excellent – Holy Cure is a handy heal spell for classes without much access to it, Bless is a fantastic buff, and Cleanse the Land is great for dealing with inhospitable terrain (and corrupted Springs/Farms)

    (Actually, what am I even saying – Creation Mastery has some great spells in the form of Resurrect & Bane of the Unnatural [especially now, with the Necro in play])

    #201385

    nevodark
    Member

    No no, nevo, regrowth as a combat spell, you put it on a unit and it last for one battle. Maybe 15 mana.

    Ahh that makes much more sense. my bad ^^

    #201389

    Hide
    Member

    I think that creation is one of the best specs. Personally I don’t like the ordinary elemental specs and I rarely use them. I don’t think we need a buff for creation. I’d rather think of a way to make destruction mastery better. – Or earth mastery. Besides the earth elemental I think the spells of earth mastery aren’t that great.

    #201394

    ArcaneSeraph
    Member

    Creation Adept is quite good. I don’t really think it needs anything more.

    Creation Master is fairly poor though. It doesn’t get a summon for one.

    Resurrect sounds great but remember it has to compete with game changing spells like hellfire, earthquake, wind ward, great hail, healing showers, etc. It would be more useful if you got it sooner (like Rebirth or Phoenix Warrior) but as it stands it’s somewhat situational.

    Now I know people will say but Phoenix Warrior / Rebirth can be dispelled and they aren’t quite the same, etc, etc. That’s true. I still stand by my statement that resurrect is too late to really sway the outcome of the game much compared to those other two that, while not the same, can be employed to great effect very early (especially Phoenix).

    Temperate Empire is fine.

    Condemn killing is a bit weak considering you have to lose troops to take any benefit from it and it isn’t a particularly strong debuff even then. It is very cheap to cast. Ironically it helps out the theocrat more than most due to their resurging units but since the theocrat already has rebirth, resurrect is somewhat useless for him. So it’s a bit of a double edged sword. Condemn is good but resurrect is marginal. For others resurrect is decent but condemn is poor.

    Bane of the unnatural is okay. I don’t find a lot of use out of it for most classes but it is okay. It does make an effective buff against the undead so if you are fighting a necromancer it is a good option. It’s also decent against sorcerers or arch druids. However unless it has changed it also lets the enemy do more damage against your units too so that makes it only good for a limited number of classes.

    For my choices I can usually get a much greater benefit from most class / race combos by picking a different mastery than creation. It’s not that it is terrible but for the most part it doesn’t give you that new tool like the others do to really change a battle. In the world of one spell per round the more impactful spells often win out over the situational ones.

    #201397

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Creation Adept definitely needs no boost, as it is one of the best Adept Specializations, and the only weakness is the lack of summons (if that were corrected, then the Specialization would be hilariously OP).

    I don’t mind boosting Creation Mastery, but it’s not THAT bad.

    I would, however, like to see Spirit and Blight Elementals more accessible than merely via Wild magic.

    #201399

    Stormwind
    Member

    I think that creation is one of the best specs. Personally I don’t like the ordinary elemental specs and I rarely use them. I don’t think we need a buff for creation. I’d rather think of a way to make destruction mastery better. – Or earth mastery. Besides the earth elemental I think the spells of earth mastery aren’t that great.

    I agree with you on the elemental specs, they could use a buff I think. But destruction is already pretty good, there are a lot of specific strategies you can use with it. Its worth it just for that hasty plunder spell.

    #201420

    Fenraellis
    Member

    Creation Mastery was buffed in multiple ways with EL:
    — Bane of the Unnatural: almost doubled in damage output.
    — Condemn Killing: applies when all units types are killed, not just Devout, and cost reduction.
    — Temperate Empire: with “Path of ___” abilities now working properly, and the Necromancer class in particular, it got a sort of utility buff.

    May not be huge, but it was noticeable.

    #201424

    SaintTodd
    Member

    I think creation is the best specialization. Cleanse the Land is indispensable, bless is cheap and effective, and Bane of the Unnatural is super sweet now. Toss in Resurrection, and just can’t seem to give it up in order to get those new angels… Kinda frustrating, really.

    #201459

    Bob5
    Member

    I think Bane of the Unnatural alone is already sufficient reason to take it, it’s basically an anti-incorporeal spell as all incorporeals are undead or magical origin. Especially race-class combinations that have trouble taking down incorporeals have great use for it, for instance Orc, Goblin, or Halfling Warlord (a lot of incorporeals also have frost/blight resistance). Halfling Archdruid also benefits well.

    Resurrect is a good spell. As opposed to Rebirth, Resurrect is a spell you can cast after your unit dies, so you’re less vulnerable to surprise attack losses.

    #201476

    Astraflame
    Member

    I think Bane of the Unnatural alone is already sufficient reason to take it, it’s basically an anti-incorporeal spell as all incorporeals are undead or magical origin

    Yes, creation mastery is decent, especially for warlords and their physical damage focus, never a bad thing to resurrect a manticore either saving time/gold. However for most part i think Grey Guard is much superior to creation.

    That’s a problem with the new specs, the older seems to be /adep choices to compliment the new specializations, either shadowborn/peae keeper/grey guard.

    I would like to see Soirit elemental/blight elemental added to both creation/destruction, currently a bit waste of nice models IMO.

    P.S. And from a fun point of view and singeplayer(Roleplayer especially), the new specializations have obsoleted the old IMO, for most part when playing with them feels like a return to the vanilla game when it comes to the alignment. I’d say new toys could be given to each old spec to make em a bit more interesting.

    #201482

    Zaskow
    Member

    I also would like to see Blight/Spirit Elemental accessible for Destruction/Creation mastery specializations. This change could increase their value.

    The devs have stated before (around the release of Golden Realms, when a bunch of us were pushing for it) that Spirit and Blight Elementals would not be added to the Creation/Destruction masteries as they were not going to add expansion content to base game specialisations.

    Devs had already added a lot of content to original game. Free content. Vassaling, for example. I suppose that adding 2 more units doesn’t make DLCs not worth buying.

    #201498

    Gloweye
    Member

    I also would like to see Blight/Spirit Elemental accessible for Destruction/Creation mastery specializations. This change could increase their value.

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Ravenholme wrote:</div>
    The devs have stated before (around the release of Golden Realms, when a bunch of us were pushing for it) that Spirit and Blight Elementals would not be added to the Creation/Destruction masteries as they were not going to add expansion content to base game specialisations.

    Devs had already added a lot of content to original game. Free content. Vassaling, for example. I suppose that adding 2 more units doesn’t make DLCs not worth buying.

    While all true, those are base game improvements. Spirit and Blight elementals are not – even if you have Golden Realms, if you don’t see those specific units appear, you won’t notice their existance. They are expansion-only content as much as Halflings are, and they just don’t want those in the base game specs anymore than they want Halfling Scoundrels in vanilla Brigand Camps.

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