Request to devs from modders

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Home Forums Help & Support Request to devs from modders

This topic contains 55 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Hiliadan 1 year, 2 months ago.

Viewing 26 posts - 31 through 56 (of 56 total)
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  • #250937

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Guys, what about discussing XP farming on the topic that already discussed all these solutions here: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/game-suggestion-to-stop-experience-farming/ instead of forcing the devs to read all this (and all the solutions have already been debated and I’m sure devs already read them so re-asking here won’t really help)? 😛

    (but well, I guess I’ll open a new topic in the future if we find a new big hurdle for balance for something most of the players want implemented but we don’t find a way to do it with mod tools, this one is dead now)

    #250938

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    so something like an AI multiplier for XP gain would be great to boost AI

    AI Exp multiplier isn’t hard to implement, because AI has already enough different buffs for its units.

    As a DIFFICULTY SETTING? I don’t think so.

    Guys, what about discussing XP farming on the topic that already discussed all these solutions here: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/game-suggestion-to-stop-experience-farming/ instead of forcing the devs to read all this (and all the solutions have already been debated and I’m sure devs already read them so re-asking here won’t really help)?

    If I remember right it was me, making the last post in that thread, so there is no reason to come up with that corpse here; after all, I did already make a Mod reigning these things in, but the idea of the game is to have fun and not to squeeze the last drop of XP out of every battle or to make an exhaustive XP-gaining strategy mandatory for success.
    The issue is actually pretty clear. You can either cut down on XP-gaining in general via a hardcap that basically depends on the enemy units. Ideally, this works as in Disciples: all units have an XP value, and after a successful battle the surviving units share the XP soils equally. This cannot be done with the current mod tools, but it’s quite easy to restrict XP gaining to just getting XP for killing a unit (I can post such a mod at any time).
    Or you can try to work with “micro-limiters” – limit touch XP, limit XP-giving contacts as well and so on, something we’ve all been busy with – but still there are 2 points here not covered BY THE MOD TOOLS, and bringing them up here is perfectly acceptable, since it’s on-topic.

    The first issue is, that with a variable XP gain the AI is disadvantaged, because autocombat doesn’t take “maximizing XP gain” into consideration. This results in the AI collecting a lot less XP than human players, which means, “game difficulty” might very well involve a slider that regulates AI XP gain (or may simply be part of the difficulty settings and therefore moddable by default). That is all the more true for players playing WITHOUT a mod, because, as we all know, WITHOUT mods you can abuse XP-gaining enormously.

    The second issue is based on the fact that “ranged combat” is a completely different beast than melee. If XP was based globally on damage suffered and damage dealt, there wouldn’t be a problem (with a contact limit in place); but things work differently, and in my opinion it would make sense to make a difference between ranged combat XP gaining and everything else.

    Just as an example for how you can “maneuver” for XP – consider the advantage for XP gaining when you manage to equip your hero(es) with different kinds of ranged weapons. For example, having a Crossbow and a sling, is an advantage, because if you are already in shooting range (or can get there with one mp) you can get 3 times contact XP, but if not you can get double contact XP with the CRossbow – plus you can pick whether you want to maximize or minimize damage (minimizing damage allows more units to get a hit in).
    Obviously, this isn’t possible with melee combat. Sure, there are special attacks and all – but you cannot artificially adjust damage down (you’ll do tons of damage with these melee attacks).
    The game should deliver a near maximum of XP if you dispatch an opponent efficiently.
    The could even be bonusses (say, for suffering no losses, for winning against the odds and so on … or for winning FAST), but that looks like a complete overhaul of the system AS WELL.

    Which simply means, based on what we have, I simply repeat what I would like, and that’s an AI XP-gain modifier as part of the difficulty level, moddable. Where’s the problem with that?

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by  Jolly Joker.
    #250956

    SikBok
    Keymaster

    For the sake of allowing for a stronger AI, what I would really like to see is an XP multiplier for AI players. Something like 4 difficulty levels, +33%, +67%, +100% +150%.

    This would make the AI armies a lot more competetitive.

    I like that idea. I’ll be sure to suggest it.

    Do think we might want to limit it to heroes, to prevent campaigns in hard mode to make even more casualties. The main issue seems to be with heroes anyways.

    #250957

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Hey, tanks for responding so quickly!

    I agree with your observation about this being mainly an issue with heroes. For one thing, the AI uses heroes a lot less agressively than human players (which is probably fine, considering MP players trust their heroes to the AI), and for another thing, when you play with a mod that is limiting XP gain in any way, this hits mostly heroes as well.

    I made a mod myself with that in mind that rebalances the creature and hero XP gaining in favor of units and making it a lot more difficult for heroes to level up, and what I think is that the AI is actually profiting – while their Heroes are lacking somewhat they do come with more Champion X units instead which is good.

    And since you always seem on the lookout for crazy stuff, I have to say that the Arcane Library mod I made in a fit of crazyness really changes the game – with the Mod the Arcana Library hands out random T1 and T2 tactical and strategic spells of all classes and specs, irrespectively of what Class you play.
    I mention this, because I think this might be too “wild” for regular play – but I think it would make a terrific event (for 5 days Arcane Libraries hand out the above), obviously limiting the amount of other-class tech you can get…

    #251848

    SikBok
    Keymaster

    Units acquired during a fight (mind-controlled or ghouled) start with 0 MP on the strategic map

    We’ll have a look at that one for the next patch.

    We managed to resolve this one. You’ll find it in patch notes as:
    “Fixed an issue where entering combat would wipe extra move points gained from Death March”.

    #251861

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Units acquired during a fight (mind-controlled or ghouled) start with 0 MP on the strategic map

    We’ll have a look at that one for the next patch.

    We managed to resolve this one. You’ll find it in patch notes as:
    “Fixed an issue where entering combat would wipe extra move points gained from Death March”.

    Ok, great that you fixed THAT issue but that’s not really what I meant here.
    Here that’s the opposite, we’d like to have the possibility to mod (you may not want to make it the default in the base game, though it would make a lot of sense) that units acquired during combats (mind-controled, ghouled, cadavers created during the fight, other units summoned or else that you can keep after the fight ends) start on the strategic map with 0 MP. So that’s not linked to Death March and that’s also not about the MP of the units who entered the fight. That’s about the MP of the independent units that you gain control of or units you create during the fight. We want them to have 0 MP when they appear to prevent big snowballing where you get 2 units (Cadavers for instance) in a fight, then move them fully to do another fight where you get more units, that you move to do another fight, etc.

    #251865

    Hiliadan
    Member

    One more (and last on my side, at least for this patch :P) request on which we had tried to work ourselves with the mod tools but we were unable to solve our issue (since September 2016)…
    Currently Arch Druid’s evolved animals keep their initial spell’s upkeep. So Baby Serpents that evolve all the way to King Shock Serpent still have an upkeep of 7 mana (with Wild Refuge), which is quite ridiculous and severely helps AD and “evolve strategies”.
    So could you please provide us with a way to increase the mana upkeep of these units when they evolve? Several possible ways:
    – the spell automatically updates itself when the unit evolves and gets a higher mana upkeep
    – you add an ability that add a mana (or gold) upkeep to units. Then we can add this ability in the Evolve process, and we can multiply the upkeep as we want with the previous “upkeep multiplier” ability you added earlier
    – other rework of the summoning system, e.g. the mana upkeep is on the unit, not the spell, so we can multiply it (see previous point)

    More details here: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/is-it-normal-that-mana-upkeep-of-evolved-spider-and-serpents/

    #251886

    SikBok
    Keymaster

    Ok, great that you fixed THAT issue but that’s not really what I meant here.

    My bad, dropped the wrong patch note line here. Guess that’s what I get for cutting corners using copy/paste.

    It should be: ‘Mind controlled/ghouled units now always have 0 move points on the world map after battle.’

    #251888

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Ok, great that you fixed THAT issue but that’s not really what I meant here.

    My bad, dropped the wrong patch note line here. Guess that’s what I get for cutting corners using copy/paste.

    It should be: ‘Mind controlled/ghouled units now always have 0 move points on the world map after battle.’

    Great! 🙂 And does it work for Cadavers too?
    Thanks guys!

    #251890

    SikBok
    Keymaster

    Iirc it should work for any unit you end up with after the battle that you didn’t start with.
    With the exception of any units you get as a reward – from a quest or as loot – for winning the battle.

    #251895

    SikBok
    Keymaster

    Evolving summons

    Yeah, we addressed that one too.
    Made a post for that now too, in the relevant thread.

    #256420

    Hiliadan
    Member

    So we’ve been discussing some changes for several weeks/months for the balance mod and they got broad support, then we realized they could not be implemented (e.g. see technical discussion here http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/technical-questions-migration-time-immunity-to-aura-effect-shapeshift/). We then analyzed what replacements could be brought and in some cases found adequate way to reach a similar result. However, in other cases, we were not able to find a good replacement. So we’d like to ask if you could please help us to mod the following things in the next patch (i.e. provide us with tools to mod it ourselves):

    1/ allow shapeshift where the unit keeps all its previous requisites and properties but some can be overwritten.
    What we want to achieve is this:
    Dreadnought heroes can choose Activate Golem at level 11 for 5 points to deploy and enter a Golem once per battle: until the end of battle, the hero gains Machine, Wall Crushing, Demolisher, Tireless, Reinforced, 40% shock weakness. He loses the bonus from his current mount, the Mounted ability (and associated bonus) and his MP are reduced to 28. He keeps his race’s, items’, etc.’s other abilities and spells. Activate Golem causes the heroes to enter Guard Mode and finishes their turn.
    Activate Golem cannot be used while on Water or Lava.

    What doesn’t work is “He keeps his race’s, items’, etc.’s other abilities and spells”. And we would need to overwrite the bonus from the mount, Mounted ability and the MP.
    We would also need to be able to add requisites (though this is not a major issue, we can live without the hero being a Machine).

    2/ change the migration time’s 2 variables: minimum migration time (= 1) and number of hex to increase the migration time by 1 turn (= 15)
    We want to achieve this:
    Migration takes a minimum of 2 turns (was 1 turn) + 1 turn every 15 hexes (as before)

    3/ allow abilities to filter on property and not just requisite.
    We want to achieve this:
    Dreadnought heroes can choose Gas Masks at level 7 for 5 points: units in the stack led by this unit get 40% Blight Protection and are immune to Choking Fumes, Suffocate and Disgusting Stench. Undead, Elemental, Machines and Incorporeal are not affected.
    Currently Choking Fumes and Disgusting Stench filter targets only on requisite, like Undead, Machine, etc. and Gas Masks would be a property. So we can only exclude Gas Masks units from being targeted by Suffocate.
    It would also allow to implement this:
    Undeads that attack a unit with Necromantic Aura get “Immune to Necromantic Aura” (cannot be dispelled) if the Aura fails its 7 spirit attack check on them. Units with “Immune to Necromantic Aura” cannot be affected by it.

    4/ make it possible for skills (research tech) to add abilities on medal level different from Elite (in particular Champion I)
    We want to implement:
    Martyrs evolve on Champion I (was Elite).
    But Exalted Martyr can only give the Evolve on Champion I.
    (we found a workaround for this one but it’s not as clean; so less important if it asks more work)

    5/ this is not a request for mod tool but rather a request for a change to the official version: could you please add an “Angel” requisite for the 3 angels to be able to filter on the 3 to reduce compatibility issues for mods that want to play with them (e.g. the Shadow Realm expansion)?
    I’ve been told it might cause troubles to mod that modified them, so I don’t know if you’ll consider worth it.

    #256478

    SikBok
    Keymaster

    Hi,

    Just checked with the team.

    1. Too much work to be feasible. Might even be impossible given how things work.
    2. We can have a look at that. I’ll book a ticket for the next patch.
    3. That goes against how the system is designed to work. Bunch of reasons for that I won’t go into here. There is a way to add requisites at run time. Think that was used for the undead, so ghouls could get the undead trait. You might be able to reverse engineer that.
    4. Too much work to be feasible.
    5. We can have a look at that. I’ll book a ticket for the next patch.
    #256479

    Zaskow
    Member

    @sikbok

    Could you look at this request: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/recruitment-structures-questions/#post-256200 ?
    Request is simple – simplified recruitment structure (aka tavern from very first release of game) which has such options: max/min amount of units, choosing of unit category, possibility to get all tiers in same amounts OR just set needed amount for each tier.
    If you just return old form of tavern it would be nice too.
    Thanks.

    #257693

    Leon Feargus
    Member

    Just in case there is still a new patch in the works I will put my request here. I would very much love to have the AI build constructs (forts, watchtowers and waterforts). If this could be implemented in a crude way, similar to settling outposts, it would be enough for me.

    The change will not affect ‘vanilla’ gameplay because the AI will not build Builder units. This, however, is a setting I can change in the editor.

    Thanks

    #257695

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    @ Leon

    Since this came up in a couple of things I’m working on currently – your request woudn’t gain anything, because with the actual AI settings they won’t build fortresses anyway. The reason is that “Fortress” is the same thing as “town” when it comes to building restrictions, and the default building restriction for the AI is a minimum distance of 13 hexes between the centre hexes of two fortresses/towns. That means, for the AI, a Fortress will always be more like an obstacle because it will probably tape up space a town could be.

    For human players the default is 5, mind you, which makes a lot of sense with a view on Fortresses, but also paves the way for human city spamming.

    So what would help here first and foremost is a differentiation between “town” and “fortress” (and their respective minimum distances).

    If there WILL be another patch, I’d also like to make a couple of suggestions for some slight modifications in order to improve the AI.

    #257717

    vfxrob
    Member

    Im having a few problems with the modding tools, mostly with (i think) max capacity effecting a few different issues.

    I was wondering if there are some ways to get around these problems.

    1. A new one thats started is the mod resource manager crashing when trying to open another resource pack i get about a 2 second window to open a new .rpk (have to do this lightning fast) before the computer begins to chug slow for a few seconds before it crashes (image attached). A strange problem is I will make dummy test mods with only a few resource packs open before they also sometimes crash. This is run on a pretty hardy machine with plenty of space, I’ve re-installed AOW3, removed all temp files, no other app is running and nothing new is installed to cause this, just wondering if theres anything i can do for this?

    2. My new mod the insectoids is pretty well optimised as it can be, most textures are 512 and tried to keep the geometry low with a few exceptions, since now hitting above 90 megs upload problems begun happening, I’ve now had to revert back to changing the .png image with each upload, and it seems the higher i go the more problems i begin to get, which i experienced with my previous mod also sitting around 96 megs, just wondering if theres a way to increase the mod capacity with uploads, ideally id like a capacity of 200megs with out any upload or download problems.

    3. The second is related to this, with 2 mods at 90megs Insectoids and Spiders Gift, I’ve also subbed to the archon, dark elves to test compatibility when the mod downloads from steam and created an archive i get an error ‘null capacity full’ before it freezes and crashes. This is not a big problem as it still seems to download the mods I’ve subscribed to, but wondering if there is a way to fix this as I’m getting contacted by other subscribers getting the same problem.

    Thats about it! anything that can help would be great! cheers!

    Attachments:
    #257800

    SikBok
    Keymaster

    1. A new one thats started is the mod resource manager crashing when trying to open another resource pack

    Fyi, we’ve managed to reproduce this in the office. Seems Win10 no longer wants to play with our tools, so we are looking into how to resolve that.

    #257804

    vfxrob
    Member

    @sikbok

    Fyi, we’ve managed to reproduce this in the office. Seems Win10 no longer wants to play with our tools, so we are looking into how to resolve that.

    Ah awesome! That has been the only setback and had me stumped.

    #257813

    SikBok
    Keymaster

    Update:

    We just put a patch live that should resolve the issue with mod tools crashing when trying to open files.
    Please let us know how you get on.

    #257829

    vfxrob
    Member

    Legends!!! that problem has indeed been fixed!

    #258685

    vfxrob
    Member

    I request if by chance theres another update, if female and male reqs could be added to the appropriate units.

    Theres a few spells and a abilities I’ve been hoping to target gender across multiple mods. A pretty minor request but would be awesome!

    #258989

    Hiliadan
    Member

    A few more requests quite important for balance and for the community expansion following the 5 I listed earlier and for which you already replied. As usual, we first tried to implement them ourselves with mod tools and asked for help to the rest of the community but no solution was found (except for 1/ but that’s not satisfactory, see below), and both balance changes are quite critical.

    1/ would it be possible to add an option in the mod tools to multiply the value of rewards depending on the defender strength chosen by the user on the settings?
    Currently, Normal defenders = 100%, Strong defenders = 150% both for defender gold value and for reward value, and Very Strong defenders = 200% for both. We would like to be able to uncouple defender gold value and reward value.
    What we want to achieve is this:
    ““- A new setting is available for “Defenders Strength”: “Strong with Normal rewards”: Treasure sites do not give +50% reward value any more””
    See http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/making-a-strong-defenders-but-normal-rewards-option A partial solution was suggested: make a separate mod reducing manually all reward value for all reward sets by 33%. That would however not be practical for users, prone to modding errors and not flexible if we want other values (including for Very Strong).

    2/ would it be possible to add an option to allow Plunder (and Hasty Plunder) of Ghoul cities in the mod tools?
    We want to make Necro cities plunderable.
    See http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/plunder-for-necro-cities/

    3/ some mods add new layers, and the community expansion will add a Shadow Realm layer. However, it is currently possible only to select “Default”, “Surface” or “Underground” as a Leader’s starting layer in the Leader selection screen. That will make games with the expansion very frustrating if you play Shadow Elves and start outside the SR layer.
    So would it be possible to get the select menu for the starting layer to collect the list of ALL layers activated and display them in the menu (you would just need to add the option on the list, so there is no new button or new area to add to the UI)?
    We are not asking to have a button to ACTIVATE the SR layer, only to be able to SELECT it in the select menu for the starting layer, if it is active.

    Thanks a lot and cheers for your work on the new game! I hope you’re making great progress and someone will have some time to do a new patch for AoW3 soon. 😛

    #259250

    vfxrob
    Member

    It would be great if we are able to add particles/sound to cosmic events, if that possible would be highly appreciated, thanks!

    #270611

    Hiliadan
    Member

    What about these ones?

    1/ would it be possible to add an option in the mod tools to multiply the value of rewards depending on the defender strength chosen by the user on the settings?

    2/ would it be possible to add an option to allow Plunder (and Hasty Plunder) of Ghoul cities in the mod tools?

    3/ So would it be possible to get the select menu for the starting layer to collect the list of ALL layers activated and display them in the menu (you would just need to add the option on the list, so there is no new button or new area to add to the UI)?

    #292932

    Hiliadan
    Member

    The 3 listed above are still very much needed. I add 3 new ones that would greatly help modders. Would it please be possible to:

    4/ Add an option to adjust Migration time. Currently it is [distance in hexes]/15, with a minimum of 1. We’d like to be able to act on the 15 and on the minimum, to be able to set the minimum at 2. (discussed here: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/technical-questions-migration-time-immunity-to-aura-effect-shapeshift/#post-257404)

    5/ Add the option to give Race Happiness bonus/malus for strategic spells that have a mana upkeep, like Scorched Earth (discussed here: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/race-happiness-change-and-sustain-spells/)

    6/ Remove the free random spell heroes get when they spawn. In particular, that would help have heroes with 0 starting spells for balance reason, but also to control exactly what heroes start with on custom maps (discussed here: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/removing-the-free-random-spell-of-heroes/).

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