March 1, 2015 at 00:17 #163024
there is a small bug or rather oversight with current empire economy reporting system in the game, which can be quite annoying sometimes.
What I mean is that, we have headbars in our UI showing how much of each resource we have and how much our empire generates, for ex:
“Gold : 100 (+120)” means we have 100 gold coins now and each turn we get additional 120.
These 120 is generated by substracting empire upkeep from empire whole income. For example if we have resource sites that alltogether generates 400 gold, and our whole upkeep is 300, then we would see “Gold: X (+100)” on this bar.
The problem with this is that it does not count queued units/buildings. See this in following example. (IMPORTANT NOTE: to make this easier to understand let’s assume in all examples unit upkeep=0 and it takes us 1 turn to produce it)
We have 100 (+120). Then, we queue some unit that costs 80 gold and we end up with: 20 (+120), because cost was taken from our pocket.
The next turn we get 120 gold as was written in this bar, and in final, we have 140 (+120). So far, so good.
Now take another example with also having 100 (+120). We queue the same unit as previous. The price is once again substracted from our pocket so we get in the end 20 (+120). However, if we now queue one more unit, this “income” value is not changed, and still show us 20 (+120). Taking only this into account we suppose the next turn we will start having once again 140 gold , but this not happens, because cost of second unit in queue is automatiically substracted from this, and we end up with (140-80) -> 60 (+120) gold with a big “WTF?” on our faces.
What I suggest is to change this reporting UI toolbar that would take into account units, summons and queued buildings which would take automatically our resources next turn to start to produce.
So in Exp. 2 after queueing 2nd unit it would not show us 20 (+120), but actual 20 (+40).
Ofc this factor should be also added to “Empire Econonmy Panel” in which we could see additional label, after income, upkeep etc. with “queued units/structures: -60”.
Gains are quite obvious at this point. Players would have much more better control over their resources and not thinking “I have +1000 gold income, so why I have almost the same amount of gold each turn?”. It would be especially helpful on mid and endgame, when players tend to have multiple cities that automatically produces units without end.
What do you think?March 1, 2015 at 02:19 #163041
I am not sure how to respond to this – I cannot really see how anyone could regard this as an oversight or even a bug. The reasoning is simple – the “(+120)” you mention represent the income and it means that you will gain 120 gold next turn. It does not, and should not show the amount of gold you’ll have after certain actions have been done next turn. It’s a projection for the very start of your next turn, and since you actually don’t commit to producing anything before you click end turn, showing anything else would be confusing.
What I mean by this is that, as long as you haven’t spent at least one turn on producing a unit or building, you haven’t actually paid for it. The 80 gold will leave your gold reserve, yes, but it will be back in full if you cancel the unit. It doesn’t matter if you’ve queued it the turn before or not, you still haven’t committed to anything. Personally, I usually queue way more than I can afford for the next turns and decide which one to actually produce much later – I cannot imagine any benefits of your suggestion.March 1, 2015 at 03:16 #163045
The reasoning is simple – the “(+120)” you mention represent the income and it means that you will gain 120 gold next turn. It does not, and should not show the amount of gold you’ll have after certain actions have been done next turn. It’s a projection for the very start of your next turn, and since you actually don’t commit to producing anything before you click end turn, showing anything else would be confusing.
I completely understand how it works and I know my proposal would change somehow the intend of this bars. The main point of this suggestion is to see that what I want to suggest is to change this intend from “income” to much better “next turn diff”. Now the information it gives player is misleading and utterly useless. It says “You have X gold, next turn you will start with Y more, but there are also costs you put on auto-mode I didn’t count into, so… you are on your own now…”.
Looking at this bar you are supposed to know how much you will have next turn takin into account if you have already put some unit/buildings into queue, especially on infinity-mode, you don’t want to keep manually track how much it costs you, especially when you are playing on XL maps. These are const costs.
Let’s say you have 1000 (+800) gold and you are planning some tactics for executing which you know you need 2600 gold. You are going to have this in 2 turns, right? No, you are going to have this only if you purge all current queues, but you can’t stop whole economy, so in reality you don’t know when you will get this amount of resource.
I cannot imagine any benefits of your suggestion.
The benefit is, if you haven’t catch it yet, to give player information of how much resource he is going to have next turn without need to cancel items from existing queues. This is especially needed when you are building army on infite-mode, since, as I already wrote, you don’t want to keep track of this. It is already become constant cost in your economy, which bars do not inform you of.March 1, 2015 at 03:40 #163049
Another example – player is playing game, having 20 cities which 7 of them are pure war cities, constantly spawning soldiers. The header bar is informing him that his resource status is 1000 (+800).
How can he know if his economy is healthy or if it needs expaning?
What are the summarical costs of soliders being built next turn, which he cannot afford of canceling?
Regarding the previous questions what purposeful information this +800 gives him?
PS. Sorry for doubleposting, my edit button disappeared 🙁March 1, 2015 at 07:23 #163058
much more better
I would hate to see this change implemented, sorry…
I use that income indicator to determine whether or not hiring more units is a worthwhile investment. If it changed every turn, then it would be altogether worthless… I would have to constantly mentally recalculate against the buildings I knew I was building in order to determine whether or not I had enough to afford a greater upkeep, and I would never really be able to tell if that 300 gold building I just queued up actually has any chance of being built, because I wouldnt really know how much I was getting each turn.
Your change is basically aimed at replacing a reliable indicator of per-turn income, with a one turn “heads up” which would inform you how much gold you would have the following turn. If your strategy depends on always knowing exactly how much gold you are going to have, then you shouldnt be lining things up in the queue… Just build turn by turn, instead.
I know that sounds very micromanage-ey, but, basically what you seem to be asking for is an advancement of micromanagement over automation. You want to know exactly how much gold you are going to have on hand, and choose exactly what you are going to do with it each turn. I would much rather queue up buildings and units, based on my actual per-turn income, and then allow the automatic build queues to handle it for me, without giving me misleading info.
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