[Following] RMG, UG and MAP ELEMENTS Balance Discussion

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Balance Suggestions [Following] RMG, UG and MAP ELEMENTS Balance Discussion

This topic contains 27 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  Keraidos 7 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #113719

    ExNihil
    Member

    Hi guys,

    This thread is dedicated to the discussion of the balancing of Random Map Generator, Underground and specific map elements (taverns, dwellings, dungeons and so forth). You are all welcome to pitch in! My first post will be based on material from the Rebalance of Existing Elements… thread.

    Race Threads:

    ORC Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/orc-balance-discussion/

    GOBLIN Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/goblin-balance-discussion/

    HUMAN Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/human-balance-discussion/

    HIGH-ELF Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/high-elf-balance-discussion/

    DRACONIAN Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/draconian-balance-discussion/

    DWARF Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/dwarf-balance-discussion/

    Class Threads:

    ROGUE Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/rogue-balance-discussion/

    SORCERER Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/sorcerer-balance-discussion/

    THEOCRAT Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/theocrat-balance-discussion/

    DREADNOUGHT Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/dreadnought-balance-discussion/

    ARCHDRUID Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/archdruid-balance-discussion/

    WARLORD Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/warlord-balance-discussion/

    Topical Threads:

    Random Map Generator, Underground and Map Elements Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/rmg-ug-and-map-elements-balance-discussion/

    Blight, Spirit, Machines and Theocrat: Some Community Questions: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/blight-spirit-machines-and-theo-some-community-questions/

    Dwellings, Taverns and Bandits!: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/dwellings-taverns-and-bandits/

    AI and Auto-Combat Balance Discussion (SP and MP): http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/auto-combat-balance-discussion/

    Support Units Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/support-units-balance-discussion/

    Leader/Heroes Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/leaderheroes-balance-discussion/

    Heal and Sustain Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/the-heal-or-sustain-issue/

    Assorted Topics Balance Discussion: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/asorted-topics-balance-discussion/

    Misc. Threads:
    Ballista!: http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/ballista/ (<– This is a unit suggestion rather than a balance discussion)

    And of course the original monster:

    http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/rebalance-of-existing-elements-in-next-patch/

    #113720

    ExNihil
    Member

    Current Issues and Suggestions RMG:

    1. The RMG spawns cities per the number of players, causing some games with 4-6 players to have a lot of cities even with “few cities” setting.

    2. There are significantly more cities in the UG then on the surface when UG is enabled.

    3. Sometimes random maps are completely out of whack – you can put everything on average and get a map with 60% mountains (Lava was discussed before,) or what is even worse, a plain map – almost no forests or mountains and scattered resources (i hate those!). Furthermore on average settings some maps have significantly more mana, gold and/or research structures then others. Occasionally there are maps with almost no mana nodes and structures and so forth. The probability of such disparities should be drastically cut down. Average settings should be average!

    4. Roaming unit bases commonly appear in high proximity to one another, creating zones of high concentration on the map, the probability of this should be reduced.

    5. Selection of Map Type (Continents, Islands, Land) does not apply to the UG in which there is only one type of map and it should.

    6. Terrain types should have a certain probability of being adjunct, atm one of the most common combinations ice Volcanic/Frost for instance, which is both bizarre when done on large scale, and makes life very hard indeed for the unlucky draconian.

    Current Issues and Suggestions UG Specific:

    1. All land tiles in the UG are defined as cavern. This means that all races but Goblins and Dwarves have -2mp on these tiles. This is a disproportional advantage as the UG forms 1/2 of the map when it is enabled, aside from being un-balanced it also makes the UG into a nasty gameplay experience for players who do not take these two races, which drastically reduces the number of games using this setting in MP. I think some of the tiles in the UG should be designated as caves while others should simply be designated as subterranean – if the cave is a few hundred meters tall and the surface is composed of dirt cave crawling shouldn’t affect it. Alternatively the benefit of cave-crawling should be reduced and the movement cost on UG tiles mitigated (6->4, with Cave Crawling 3).

    2. All tiles in the UG are defined as subterranean which means both Humans and High-Elves get negative moral malus when UG. This effects both their capacity to expand and fight properly. Since this is literally 1/2 of the map it puts these two races in an unbalanced dis-advantage: they have both the terrain/climate types they inherently dislike on the surface and then 1/2 on top of it. I suggested elsewhere to remove subterranean from the disliked terrain of both of these races, I can think of no other satisfying solution.

    #113858

    syntax_vi
    Member

    Well as a SP player I like unbalanced maps :S

    I’ve read, in the steam forums, that the devs tracked down and quashed a bug regarding amount of cities in the UG – so that is fixed. I’m assuming there is also a bug in the random seed that sometimes cause the generator to create a massive mountain range that spans half the surface. The whole FEW setting has also been adjusted by the devs (again – mentioned in the steam forums) to work properly.

    I’d suggest a ‘Balanced’ setting the RMG so the MP folks can have a *relativley* balanced game, where a number of your suggestions can come to play. Personally in the SP experience I neither need, nor want fairness. Some of the quirks of map design give each map a unique feel, which I like.

    One change I’d like to see in the UG is to not have the entire thing connected ALL the time.

    #113882

    Ricminator
    Member

    That’s a good idea indeed.

    #113885

    Gloweye
    Member

    Just completed a SP game on medium, 3 opponents where 66% of the surface was mountains. Yeah, It could be adjusted a little…

    Attached it if the dev’s want a look. I used the game to mine Warlord spell costs for the wikia, so the last 25 turns i just pressed end of turn…

    #113893

    Bob5
    Member

    When are natural caves ever a few hundred metres tall? I imagine them more like caves of perhaps 150 centimetres tall (4’11” for those using imperial system), perhaps two metres (6’7″) on some locations. Tall units travel slower because they have to bend down to travel through caves, while Goblins and dwarves are small enough not to have to. A few hundred metres is just insane for caves unless it’s built by Tolkien Dwarves like Moria. I think it’d be very weird if units travelled faster through cramped underground spaces than through open fields. The 4-3 MP mechanic was present in the old games and led to weird behaviour. Especially Karagh had horribly OP movement in the underground, often able to reach walls in city sieges on the first turn while still in the yellow zone, and able to move so fast through the strategic map that it was simply insane.

    Yes, underground benefits some races. I don’t think that means that UG mechanics need to be changed, it just means that Underground benefits need to be accounted for in balancing the races. Goblins are currently fairly weak so they can actually use this advantage. Dwarves probably need some kind of nerf though. I don’t think all races need to be equally or even semi-equally viable in all kinds of situations. If you’re elves fighting goblins underground, capture one of their towns, absorb it, and use goblin units yourself to fight in underground.

    #113904

    ExNihil
    Member

    What are you talking about? this is the RMG thread btw. You are disregarding what I write, I didn’t suggest to remove cave-crawling I suggested to readjust the mechanics. ATM almost nobody uses UG in MP games because it is so frustrating.

    #113954

    Bob5
    Member

    What are you talking about? this is the RMG thread btw. You are disregarding what I write, I didn’t suggest to remove cave-crawling I suggested to readjust the mechanics. ATM almost nobody uses UG in MP games because it is so frustrating.

    I was talking about this part

    if the cave is a few hundred meters tall and the surface is composed of dirt cave crawling shouldn’t affect it. Alternatively the benefit of cave-crawling should be reduced and the movement cost on UG tiles mitigated (6->4, with Cave Crawling 3).

    I’ll get a larger response in this post then. About your RMG points:

    1 and 2 I believe they’re already working on, might be fixed in next patch.

    3 is caused as far as I know by the RMG basically deciding for each player separately whether it starts UG or not based on a % chance that depends on the race (Goblins and Dwarves have relatively high probabilities of starting there, Humans and Elves relatively little). It always starts at least one player UG and one player on the surface, but the rest is completely random. After selecting who starts where the RMG creates area on both layers so that all players have relatively equal amounts of expansion area (so if 3 players start in UG and 1 player starts on surface, about 66% of surface will be covered in Mountains). Whether that is an ideal situation, I don’t think so, but this is how it works as far as I know.

    As far as the amount of research structures and mana nodes etc. goes, I’ve noticed a range in possibilities, but in my experience the RMG does tend to scatter them fairly equally over the map so it’s not one guy that gets all the mines. The variation keeps predictability of maps down I guess.

    4. Never really noticed this much, at least not excessively so.

    5. I agree with this one. Not sure whether to separate islands with lava, water, ground that can be tunneled through, or inpenatrable rocks though

    6. I don’t think Draconians are the only ones suffering from this. Blight terrain surrounded by Volcanic is even more horrendous for Goblins. I guess Volcanic starting next to artic is a bit weird though, but hardly a balance problem.

    #114137

    ExNihil
    Member

    6. I don’t think Draconians are the only ones suffering from this. Blight terrain surrounded by Volcanic is even more horrendous for Goblins. I guess Volcanic starting next to artic is a bit weird though, but hardly a balance problem.

    It is a balance problem when you are playing MP and players start on hated terrain or are surrounded by it from every direction. This happens too commonly.

    #114153

    syntax_vi
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Bob5 wrote:</div>
    6. I don’t think Draconians are the only ones suffering from this. Blight terrain surrounded by Volcanic is even more horrendous for Goblins. I guess Volcanic starting next to artic is a bit weird though, but hardly a balance problem.

    It is a balance problem when you are playing MP and players start on hated terrain or are surrounded by it from every direction. This happens too commonly.

    Some of my most fun games are when I PICK elves / humans / dwarves etc and set the map to all/most volcanic or blight to give myself a strong starting malus. So it’s not always a problem, some people like being at a disadvantage!

    In any case a ‘multiplayer balanced’ setting the RMG that would distribute things relatively evenly across the map, and place dwellings withing equal distance of eachother’s capitals, and make sure players start on and around ideal terrain etc would take care of much of the MP concerns.

    #114167

    ExNihil
    Member

    Well, there are average settings – these need to be balanced out. If you want to play with the geographic elements you get sliders to do so. My problem is with what happens on average settings too often, that needs to be limited.

    #114250

    Bob5
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Bob5 wrote:</div>
    6. I don’t think Draconians are the only ones suffering from this. Blight terrain surrounded by Volcanic is even more horrendous for Goblins. I guess Volcanic starting next to artic is a bit weird though, but hardly a balance problem.

    It is a balance problem when you are playing MP and players start on hated terrain or are surrounded by it from every direction. This happens too commonly.

    I don’t know how hard it is to program this. If races can’t start near disliked terrain any more the RMG code might need to be revamped badly, or just so that there are only areas of artic, volcanic, blight, and tropical, and them not connected directly, but only by temperate or water terrain in between. I think that’d force the RMG to create lots of temperate terrain on land maps, which would be fairly advantageous to those with creation sphere thanks to domain of life. After all, if Volcanic would start next to tropical, Humans would suffer starting in tropical since Volcanic is hated for them. If Artic starts next to tropical or volcanic, same for Draconians. If Volcanic or tropical starts next to artic, Elves starting on artic might suffer. Blight starting next to anything would penalise everyone except goblins. Dwarves starting in volcanic might suffer if they’re surrounded by tropical. Goblins starting in Blight wouldn’t appreciate any other clime except temperate as they either dislike or hate Artic, Volcanic, and Tropical.

    Summarizing, if you go down that route, you either need to carefully tune the RMG and make its clime creation very dependent on starting locations of races, or surround every ‘island’ of clime with either water or temperate, as for every starting clime there is for every neighbouring clime except water and temperature at least one race that won’t like it. If you do make the clime creation dependent on startling location of races, how much hexes should the minimum distance be between the starting location and some disliked or hated terrain?

    #114348

    ExNihil
    Member

    Players should always have some liked or at least not disliked terrain within a 2 turn radius of their starting location, and I’d personally prefer an even larger radius – depending on map size.

    They should never start on hated terrain (this happens quite often in settler games) and neither on disliked terrain. If the player wants to change the geographic settings he is welcome to do so, but average settings should be balanced to the extent they put all players on more or less equal footing – some get nicer starts and nicer bonuses then others, but these sort of disparities really destroy games.

    As for the probability of things being adjunct – well they should be in reference to the above first and foremost.

    I cant imagine it would be extremely difficult to program or modify. Be that as it may, these are simply required balancing changes.

    #115250

    Snezak
    Member

    Not sure if this thread is appropriate for my little issue, but, what the hell, lets go!

    So, neutral dwellings (Dragons, Giants, Fairies etc…)! Alot of people like to disable them in MP games, because they tend to create really, ummm difficult situations between and to the players.
    Basically, I consider the neutral dwellings to be the highest luck-roll in the game, you find a dwelling and you either get lucky and offered a quest in it, or you buy it out, and then you get one of the easiest ways to make T3-T4 units. Of course this is all if you get lucky with it, or if you have enough money, and also the random factor of the dwelling becoming hostile or friendly to you.

    One of the biggest complaints I have for the current mechanics of the dwellings, is how easy it is to get them. You would think that getting a dwelling that can potentially produce T3-T4 units will require considerable effort, and that it would be intended for late-game, but no, all it takes is a roll of dice. For example, I had a game where my capitol was put no far from giants dwelling, and upon meeting them they were friendly to me, about at turn 10 they offered me to kill an Eldrich Horror, as a rewards they offered me a fire giant, and some money, now with all respects I had a starting army mainly composed of T1-T2’s and 2 heroes, I kill the Horror, and lost 3 units… but I got a T4 unit! Surprisingly enough, the Giants offered me another quest several turns after the first one, I think it was to kill an undead Dragon or 2, the reward this time was 2(!) Giants and the dwelling itself, I killed the Dragons, lost the priest unit I had and a hero, with my fire giant just wounded and my leader almost dead… ouch? Nah I got 2 freakin T4 units! Plus a dwelling that I immediately started to upgrade to produce more giants! And all of that was by turn 15, 3 T4 units by turn 15!

    You get where I’m going with this? You could say I was EXTREMELY lucky, and it can’t happen every game, but, it CAN happen, and that kinda ruins the whole progression of the game, IMO it’s even worst than Inns! Inns at least are alot more reliable than dwellings, the only ‘luck’ involving an Inn is how close it is to your capital.

    Here’s a few solutions:
    1. Make neutral dwellings un-buyable, frankly it seems kinda silly to me lore-wise, that ancient dragons or proud giants are… you know? Hookers for gold?

    2. Strengthen the defending units of the dwelling, either by giving more defending units, or by having the defending structures (Fangir’s Stone Ward, Fire Dragon Ward etc…) for the dwelling be active until the dwelling is captured. That insures that the dwelling wont be captured prematurely.

    3. Making the dwelling offer a chain quest, for example: 1st quest (Easy) reward: Gold and/or Mana. 2nd quest (medium): Gold and T2/T3 unit or a strong/epic item. 3rd quest (hard): a T4 or a legendary item. 4th quest (very hard): the dwelling + a T4 unit or mythical item. That will put the player into a position when he will have to work for the good stuff.

    Right now, I prefer not to play games with neutral dwellings in it, cuz of the dice roll on it, and it’s shame really, because disabling the neutral dwellings is just like disabling a good portion of the game, where you can get unique units and some interesting battle scenarios.

    #115274

    ExNihil
    Member

    @snezak,

    I agree. This came up in the Rebalance of Existing Elements thread as well. There is a need to limit the rewards relative to the game turn. I’m qouting from what @techno Suggested:

    I think that reward depended on game time and alignment between different dwellings can help the current situation.
    Reward example: normal game speed, average start

    1- turn – 3(T)1 units
    15-30 turn – 2(T2) units
    30-40 turn – 1(T3) + 1(T2)
    40+ turn – 1 T4

    Thus in the very early game the maximum reward a dwelling will drop will be a few t1 units. later it will drop some t2s and in late-mid game it will drop t3s. Only in early late-game will it drop t4 units.

    All of your suggestions are good as well. I would like to see both yours and @techno‘s implemented.

    I would like to add here another issue: Taverns. The tavern rush strategy is simply to easy to implement. I think it should take them longer to stock and to offer certain units. And I think the unit prices should be differential.

    Example:

    turn 1-15, tavern has 3xt1 units and 1xt2 unit
    turn 16-25, tavern receives an additional 2xt1 units and 1xt2 unit
    turn 25-40, tavern receives an additional 2xt1 units, 2xt2 units and 1xt3 unit
    turn 40+, tavern refreshes every 10 turns with 3xt1, 2xt2 and 1xt3

    These units wouldn’t stock up indefintely, there will be a hard limit – say 4xt1, 2xt2 and 1xt3, so additional units in every tier will appear only if the previous ones were bought out.

    As for prices – I will put 3 examples:

    t1 units, price is 1.5x gold the production cost (mana+gold) rounded up to the nearest multiple of 5

    High-Elf Archer: 115g
    Human Archer: 105g
    Swarm Darter: 95g

    t2 units, price is 1.75x gold the production cost (mana+gold) rounded up to the nearest multiple of 5:

    Black Knight: 175g
    Human Cavalry: 160g
    Warg Rider: 140g

    t3 units, price is 2x gold the production cost (mana+gold) rounded up to the nearest multiple of 5:

    First Born: 375g
    Gryphon Rider: 340g
    Big-Beetle: 360g

    Finally, I think taverns should also sell support units (priests, elders etc.) – this can really diversify the game and change some situations.

    I think the price should be 200% the production cost of the unit as a minimum rather

    Regarding Taverns I think that if it would take them time to stock it would definitely be better then the current situation. I dont think a tavern should have more then 3 units at game start, and there should only be a small chance per turn that a new unit will appear with a cool-down period that stops the entire stocking process after units are being bought. I definitely wouldn’t want to see a t3 unit in a tavern for the first 10-15 turns at all and when one is bought there should be a cooldown period of 10-15 turns before there is a chance of a unit appearing again.

    #115277

    Snezak
    Member

    About the taverns, I actually posted about the issue a LONG time ago on the steam forums, there are quite a number of interesting suggestions in there, here’s the link, if you’re interested: http://steamcommunity.com/app/226840/discussions/0/522728813998171289/

    #115280

    ExNihil
    Member

    Read it now. Seems BBB proposed something quite close to what I have had.

    #115285

    AbednegoJC
    Member

    Agree with both of u guys (snezak and ex) – makes sence to me.

    #115580

    ExNihil
    Member

    It would be nice if the unit composition of bandit groups as well as their size will scale as the game progresses.

    There is a spawn-timer at work atm, I think in the first 5 turns bandit’s dont spawn, the around turn 10 animals/monsters spawn and around turn 20 undead spawn. But this timer seems to have very little effect on the composition and size of the spawned roaming groups. I think it would be very cool if in early game only small groups of bandits would spawn, but if the camps are left to exist these will grow and their composition will include increasingly stronger units – I dont mean up to t4 state, but perhaps include some t2/3 units. For instance, at some point if monster dens are allowed to exist trolls and ogres should start roaming the country side.

    Whatcha think ppl?

    #115604

    Althea
    Member

    That seems akin more like fallen enchantress legendary heroes.

    I think it’s a good idea. Having neutral units getting more powerful if left unattended create richer game play. However some players may find that as just an annoyance. Maybe there is a button to switch it off for those that don’t like such setting.

    Point 1 is not a problem i think, i mean that’s why it’s called random map right, sometimes a player get more cities than others, sometimes he get fewer.

    Point 2 and 3 is certainly a problem. Point 2 is very problematic indeed, i recently tried adventure setting in my last few games, guess what, i found almost no cities near my starting location, 70% of them are underground, by the time i arrived there most of them are already integrated to opponent domain, but in all those games, i found dragon peak and archon city right in my immediate vicinity. When i’m lucky, turn 3 the dragon give me a series of quest, in one of my games i even had 3 dragons at turn 21 and later my 2 heroes even get 2 items that allow them to use breath attack too, then i just start annihilating everyone off the map. At other time the dragon declare war immediately, i was forced to take it because i saw no city at all, explored almost half of surface layer of medium map, and no cities but dragon peak and archon dwelling. And building that dragon city from the scratch without normal cities is quite frustating. I guess the only solution is to alter the randomizing code

    Point 4 is rather weird, sometimes it’s a nice random element, sometimes it’s very annoying, i believe it should be more equally dispersed.

    I agree with Point 5 and 6. The solution maybe similar with point 2 and 3, the problem is similar.

    #115610

    ExNihil
    Member

    Well, if you or anyone else has other issues please feel free to post ;). I have followed your suggestion and made a special thread for dwellings (and taverns and bandits), here:

    http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/dwellings-taverns-and-bandits/

    I’d appreciate some input and suggestions.

    #116431

    Ericridge
    Member

    I like it when RMG goes out of whack from time to time. It keep things fresh and interesting and keeps you from knowing what is out there in Fog of war all the time. I’ve had times where my humans started in a tiny patch of temperate fertile plains and then everywhere else around me was blighted land. Initially I complained then I learned to love it. Because if I’m having a tough time then other AIs is too.

    And learned to explore really far very fast to find enclaves of temperate fertile land. And then sent expeditions to secure them while waging wars. Makes for a very different game from usual.

    And I really love it when there’s ALOT of boneyards near each other, I got to watch an allied AI of mine get decimated by many many archon titans and undead dragons due to really horrible combat tactics of cowardly AI programming. Meanwhile while my cowardly AI was getting crushed by them, I was taking Archon Titans and Undead dragons on with my large groups of tier 1 units and heroes. I didn’t lose a single city or get an army wiped out although there was unit deaths. It was very fun experience, although I understand this makes for very poor multiplayer experience. So I want single player to remain unaffected by whatever planned changes.

    About humans suffering underground, meh, deal with it. I didn’t even have a single goblin and dwarf city and I only had Humans/high elves so I just went underground with my Humans as a dreadnought. i didn’t use that ignore penalty spell because i’m ballsy like that. And I had to go underground to get at that dwarf AI.

    Sure it’s an slow experience but once you get road network in important places set up, underground is just like above ground and all you have to do is pay attention to your morale. I’ve had an huge human empire underground buncha times already.

    Multiplayer is always about balance balance balance all the time that kinda makes it bit dull. Try to learn to have some fun instead of winning 100% of your battles although that is an admirable goal to be just like alexander the great. But alexander the great fought alot of unbalanced battles too 😉

    At least I agree with the fact that some of the tunnel entrances should lead to caverns instead of always undergrounds and the Depths need to be brought into RMG, its kinda sad that depths is only accessible through singleplayer campaigns ><! Because I want to bring humans into the depths and explore deep deep deep underground! And accidently unleash Cthulhu onto the world. Just for fun.

    I feel that Underground can be way more fun than it is currently. The malus don’t bother me at all honestly. While i’m at it, is floating islands in the sky a precedent in AOW series?

    #124048

    Kelaeris
    Member

    About the treasure sites in 1.4 …

    Since I’ve installed Golden Realms and played around with it a bit, I’ve noticed that treasure building distribution in RMG maps has been, let’s say “rebalanced”: there are far less Tower Ruins and Ziggurats on the map (as well as the new Lost City) even on very large, with underground (I’ve counted 8 mythical structures or less, depending on the other settings, while before the patch there were at least double the number) and a lot of Ancient Ruins (the map is filled with them).

    Now I know this is a relatively minor nitpick, but each player has his own way of enjoying the game, and personally, I loved the prospect of eventually attaining mythical items for my one or two top heroes (I mostly play long games, on the slowest speed and lowest resources).
    I love all the things and changes Golden Realms brought, except for this one thing.

    Is there any way of fiddling with the spawn rate of these things at all?
    Because I’m assuming it’s a too minor thing to deserve a slider, I still really wish it were somehow editable outside the game, at least.

    #124997

    Wintermoore
    Member

    My issue with RMG is in the Continents map type (large map size). It does not encompass 2 to 3 land mass separated by substance amount of water.

    3 setting I tried it is still a huge land mass.

    Will the Dev kindly advise on this setting.

    #126326

    Azghall
    Member

    Try using Island with the lowest water possible, it do create continents, most of times. If you put Continent with max water still create a Pangaea/fractal type map.

    The problem its the resources, i set to max and if i use Land they get so spread out that you can and with many cities with just the city alone and no structure in sight. I think theres a fixed amount of structures the map spawn, since the Land type has more place to put, it just reach the map quota and stops placing more structures.

    Most of my games i use Continents, min mountain, just a little more water, and get some nice cluster of structures.
    And why there is so much Ancient Ruins around, one time it ended with 3 in just 2 hex distance from one another and 2 more 8 hex away, or the Ziggurat alone surrounded by undigable wall.

    I just wish they add [SAVE MAP] Button, so i can edit with the map editor.

    #131750

    Althea
    Member

    I found out weird thing about UG since golden realms.

    I thought it’s better to post it in this thread.

    When there is at least 1 goblin player, the size of non diggable cavern wall in UG is decreased, more goblin player will translate to bigger space in UG.

    Only goblin players that will start in UG.

    But it’s weird in a sense that when i enable UG without any goblin players, it seems no different than when i disable UG because the size of the UG is so small in this case, like 90% of it is undiggable cavern wall.

    I’m not sure if this is purely intended, i can understand that part of this is done for balance purpose, but i believe part of it is a bug too.

    If part of it is a bug, maybe some mod can move my post to bug related thread.

    #131796

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    I think, it’s intended.

    #138609

    Keraidos
    Member

    . do not really know where to post this so I put it here
    First of all, I would like to thank those of Triumph for their work.

    My observations are related to single player . First, I think the game is built especially for multiplayer . In single player is strongly unbalanced .
    First of all, magic system is inefficient in single player. If specializations are ok , but sphere of magic are useless for some faction. I played in single player especially sorcerer faction. For example, why would I research a spell that gives 30 damage when it is absolutely necessary to get specializations faction .
    Invoke extraordinary mount is too powerful spell. Two heroes that ride wyerns with stun 2+2 range attack (shield artifact), seeker (head artifact) and fairy fire + 1 attack in relation to stun, with floating units can control entire map. Why should I have spheres of magic when my goal is to get faster eldrich horror and chaos rift or mass stasis?
    For example I played sorcerer, magic destruction master, creation magic. In the first round I had magical storm , or something that, empire upgrade. 40 turns to research.too much. after 50 turns this Specialization is useless.
    Something is wrong with the independents: I am pure good, dragons are at war with me, Nagas hate me but have peace with me. Maybe because I have destructive magic, I don’t know.
    However, are much to say, so I have some recommendations /But they have meaning only for single player, I think
    1. Invoke magical mount to be more expensive or limited in use
    2. Some upgrades for the empire to appear after a certain level.
    3. Use destructive magic or creation points to give good or evil points at start . and cant be taken together (I played sorcerer destruction magic and I was pure good all the time after 40 turns. Is ilogicall).
    4. Dragon city development to be more expensive. Dragons to be good and evil. They are very powerfull units.
    5. observatory to be available later
    6. A system of random (bad) events for global spells or any serious change of alignament or diplomacy. After 60-70 turns the game become boring in single player.
    7. A trading system for spells, not for specializations of course, but for spheres and with increased costs.
    8. Increased costs to forge item. Eventually rethinking of attributes. For example the seeker attribute is at head and shield. All the time the head choise is the logical choise, because the shield slot have boost for range attack. Why is seeker on shield slot is a mystery for me.

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