Roaming Mobs on Squire too difficult

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Balance Suggestions Roaming Mobs on Squire too difficult

This topic contains 20 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Ericridge 6 years, 12 months ago.

Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
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  • #204252

    DeepDarkSoul
    Member

    I’ve been playing only a few days now. I have great difficulty with the roaming undead mobs that come along that have 2 bone dragons, 4 Wraith Kings, 4 Carrion Birds. I even march in 2 hero army strong but, these mobs are too tough.

    #204348

    esvath
    Member

    Undead mobs are the most dangerous mobs in the game, imo. They scale quickly, and while they are consisted of relatively harmless units at the early turns, they can unleash Bone Dragon/Archon Titan (after turn 30-ish?).

    I suggest you to actively seeking the mob’s lairs and destroy them in the early game. You can destroy the lairs’s guardians with your leader+starting stack.

    #204365

    Bob5
    Member

    I guess their aggression should adept to the difficulty level, so they aren’t as threatening if you’re playing on Square as when they are on Emperor, now I think they act in the same way. Make them a bit more likely to attack the AI than the player on low difficulty level. If you’ve got some experience you can deal with them without that much difficulty, but I can imagine that if you’re a beginner and still learning the game, so you’re playing on Square, that the Bone Dragon + Carrion Bird stack is a bit too much at turn 30.

    #204366

    DeepDarkSoul
    Member

    It just sucks that I have a really nice game going where I’ve taken several towns along the way, have control of about 1/4 of the Huge Land world and am having fun building up new cities and multiple hero’s. But I just marched right up to this double stack and am stuck without movement points and trying to get my army out of there at the start of the next turn without being attacked and I cannot deal with this mob as High Elves with blight weakness. I even have Roaming Armies set to FEW to try and keep these from happening. They are ruining my gameplay. I cannot even get a game to a point that I can find and fight the AI, I keep getting trampled by Dragons and Archon Giants. This SUCKS on Squire. I want to learn the play style of armies and have fun… Not get CRUSHED on Squire.

    #204376

    Ericridge
    Member

    Bring human priests and you will be the one doing the crushing not the undeads xD

    Or Dwarf’s Forge Priests.

    #204386

    esvath
    Member

    Maybe the lairs should delay spawning Tier 4 on Squire to turn 50-ish? Like how the Cosmic events with various bosses, they only occur at later turns on easy difficulties.

    This also highlight the “problem” of the autosave: it saves game after our turn ends, instead of saves game before our turn begins/at the end of our last opponent’s turn.

    #204387

    Bob5
    Member

    Bring human priests and you will be the one doing the crushing not the undeads xD

    Or Dwarf’s Forge Priests.

    Very true Ericridge, but what I think is more the point is that those stacks, especially the bone dragon + carrion bird stacks (I think later on they also get wraiths with those) are quite punishing if you’re still learning the game. Those stacks are quite fast, and if you react too slowly your priests may not be able to catch them before they wreck havoc, kill a bunch of your other stacks, and take an important city. Yes, it’s punishing, and maybe it’s rightful for bad preparation, but I think that the game shouldn’t be that punishing on Square level. Should the difficulty of roaming stacks scale with difficulty? I think it should. You can probably ramp it up a bit further than it is now on the higher difficulty levels like King or Emperor, but I think a viable case can be made for lowering the impact of those Dragons somewhat on Square and Knight level.

    #204402

    DeepDarkSoul
    Member

    Thanks Bob5. I really appreciate your post. I hope that AoW will lower the difficulty of the lower difficulties. Because as they seem to stand now. It’s too tough for someone just figuring out the game.

    #204439

    Ericridge
    Member

    i remember losing a army to wraiths on squire once. I just came back with priests and killed them all. Wasn’t that punishing at all. But ah well.

    #204444

    Fenraellis
    Member

    Well, I can certainly understand how the roaming enemies may seem more dangerous than the AI opponents on the lower difficulties. That being said, DeepDarkSoul, keep on trucking and you’ll get it.

    #204445

    ArcaneSeraph
    Member

    It does at least teach you good gameplay habits to get into. To learn how to balance expansion with city defense and unit selection is one of the keys to really succeeding on the higher difficulty levels.

    But yes I remember being terrified of those darn carrion birds when I first started playing too. They always managed to rip my weaker units to pieces. And even today if I happen to miss a spawner and I get an unexpected stack with bone dragons in it it can really cause problems for a lot of typical city garrisons.

    On a more constructive note: Does altering the roaming units setting reduce the spawn rate of those sites? If I recall correctly it does. Doing so you could reduce it yourself without waiting for the devs.

    I would have no objection to squire difficulty reducing the spawn rate, spawn power, or even not spawn units at all. After all it is meant for learning 🙂

    #204451

    Ericridge
    Member

    I’m not sure if it should be nerfed or not, because people is going to need to learn how to handle the undeads anyways. They’re supposed to be scary.

    #204459

    Fenraellis
    Member

    On a more constructive note: Does altering the roaming units setting reduce the spawn rate of those sites? If I recall correctly it does. Doing so you could reduce it yourself without waiting for the devs.

    The the number of spawning sites. Not the strength of spawned units, nor the frequency. I believe.

    Although Defender Strength may interact with the strength of the spawn-site defender stack itself(can’t recall), I don’t believe it alters the unit spawn strength, and I’m positive it doesn’t alter the frequency.

    #204472

    Ericridge
    Member

    The the number of spawning sites. Not the strength of spawned units, nor the frequency. I believe.

    Although Defender Strength may interact with the strength of the spawn-site defender stack itself(can’t recall), I don’t believe it alters the unit spawn strength, and I’m positive it doesn’t alter the frequency.

    Defender Strength modifies the strength of independents defending nodes, encampments, boneyards, independent cities. If it’s controlled by a independent of some kind, Defender Strength modifier will affect it. If you set it to max, a haunted boneyard could be defended by six archon titans or dragons XD And crazy stuff like six manticores in a dungeon.

    The tradeoff is that if you could clear super powerful sites, the rewards from them is alot BIGGER. I’m speaking tier 3 units from dungeons as rewards. 🙂

    Which means, if you’re a theocrat, rogue, or a Necromancer.. You would want the defender strength to be as powerful as possible due to converts, ghouling and charming. Its entirely possible to empty an whole bunch of nodes and have several stacks worth of powerful units. Its fun xD

    And…. age of death means those super powerful defenders if they get ghouled upon defeat is now yours to raise hell with.

    #204529

    Aennor
    Member

    Well, I should say that the roaming undead is really nightmare (call me a psycho, but I like it)
    The only class that hasn’t much problem with them is theocrat (vote for warlord as second), still the matter of race comes (HE even as theocrat can be doomed to oblivion by this)
    Yesterday I’ve played as Frostling Theocrat (two racial supports sounds wonderful)…this gone ugly fast xD

    #204536

    DeepDarkSoul
    Member

    Maybe I just shouldn’t be playing High Elves yet. The Blight weekness is killing me up against those bone dragons. The Idea of taking priests would be fine, if I had encountered any Dwarf or human settlements along the way in the game I have going, I’ve only come across Orcs and I’m at war with them. I keep taking out their cities. Also, I am on Extra Large Map and in somewhere around turn 60+. I have defender strength at average but Spawned Armies at Few. I have been having this problem in every game I’ve tried so far. Always as HE and the undead are crushing me. For the PURE SAKE of Game Balance. There should NOT be a MOB that can utterly destroy and 2 Hero army on Squire. That’s my whole point here. Squire Mode should be “Can I play Daddy?” setting (anyone remember the original Wolfenstien?). In Squire mode you should be able to defeat practically ANY army with just your starter army and without having to put to much effort into the game. Allowing you to play through a map in an almost “GOD Mode” with few real challenges. The 2 Bone Dragon, 4 Carrion Bird, 4 Wraith King mob is WAY to MUCH for Squire mode. I’ve hardly even begun to look around the map and I’m getting squashed by a roaming mob. This should not happen on Squire.

    #204540

    Aennor
    Member

    Forgot to mention, it’s on squire (around turn 80 though)

    What class are you playing with? Since HE is weak against the blight, you’ll need either rogue/AD heroes or be necro (80% blight protection, immunity goes down coz of weakness) or bring machines (immune to blight anyway) or be theocrat (so can wreck that filth with minimal loses)

    But I agree, watching Archon Titan/Bone Dragon around turn 50 is really soon (at least on squire)

    #204587

    Gloweye
    Member

    I don’t think having the mob’s depend on AI difficulty is a good idea – the difficulty can differ based on AI, and it currently influences only that AI, his troops, his income, and his behavious (Squire is dumbed down).

    However, I would support changing “Few” roamers to not have Boneyards, or either making a “starter” option that would have that difference.

    #204592

    Aennor
    Member

    I’m all for slightly delay the T4 generation on the lower difficulty settings (and maybe reverse on the high difficulty ones)
    Just that
    That way, you can still have fun with them (especially on XL maps, or any other settings that make game longer), but you haven’t fight them too early, when you’re (most likely) still not ready for them

    #204630

    Well, that wouldn’t be much of a learning experince if it was on god mode. The point of squire is that the enemy ai players are nerfed so you can learn to fight and utilize the environment properly.

    An important thing about aow iii is that it is turtle unfriendly. Even the people who do talk about turtling are actually just expanding more deliberately than is perhaps optimal.

    So use scouts to find stuff early. If it is a roamer site (red in the strategic map and when you look at it) you should go kill it as soon as possible. If you can’t, or miss one, scouts and watch towers will alert you to a dangerous stack coming in.

    High elves are weak to blight, but not that weak. They have 1 extra resistance, so they really only take 15% or so more damage. The problem for low tier units is that two breath attacks will one shot them (especially the excellent archers).

    The solution is to bring another stack with you. If you do that, then the bone dragons will most likely split, allowing your troops to respond. If they stay concentrated, then you have one side at full health to attack. A mix of archers, pikes, and priests is best for the undead.

    Remember that high elf pike (the union guard from the second military building) and priest storm sister (from the temple) do shock damage. That means they can bypass the 60% physical protection on the wraiths. Ranged damage is better, because that prevents the wraiths from draining life from your troops.

    High elf archers do more damage and do full damage at range, so keep them as far away as possible to hit the dragons. Pikes do more damage vs them (because they fly), so that is useful.

    Then there is class. Arch druids get blight protection, frost and spirit protection on their leader stacks, and an upgrade called favored enemy that grants archers and supports monster, dragon, and giant slaying. Titans are giants, bone dragons are dragons, and the carrion birds are monsters.

    Dreads do fire, and warlords have Monster hunters. Sorcerer heroes have dragon slaying, etc.

    #204649

    Ericridge
    Member

    Since you’re playing High Elves, that means you have access to Storm Sisters. While you won’t get bonus damage but your damage wont’ suffer either. It just depends on what kind of units you can bring to fight them on which class you are using.

    You can see my knights winning a fight of 2 v 1 odds with no dead knights XD

    http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/spring-of-life-knights/

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