Shadow Realm – Brainstorm

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This topic contains 1,098 replies, has 37 voices, and was last updated by  Refineus 3 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #269717

    Gloweye
    Member

    I’m going to implement the structures in the Shadow Realm.

    This discussion is NOT going to have any references to weights. It’s not a measure of which we really have any idea what it does. More is more structures, but it’s not intuitive what weight is how many, and the consequences are vastly different per occurence. For example, global passes vs city rings.

    Therefore, we define like we do other structures on the normal layers. For example, you say, “I think we should treat structure X like we otherwise do dungeons, but a bit less often.” Or anything like that. I’ll start with a complete set. Tomorrow evening, I’ll put them into the mod so that we can start another round of testing friday, as per schedule.

    Heart of the Shadow – Like any other single heart.

    Unit Spawners:
    Circle of Necromancy – like vanilla (Note to self: Update adventure sets. )
    Larva Pool – like monster dens, but slightly more often
    Warband Campfire – Brigand camp
    (Undead Boneyard – like vanilla, but unsure if we’re putting it on ? Isn’t on the wiki, but I can’t think of a reason for that.)

    Archon Fort – Compare to Tomb
    Forgotten Throne – All equal chance, and total chance equal to Ziggurat ?
    Hollow Grove – Equal to Dungeon
    Syron Ruins – Equal to Ancient Ruins
    Syron Tomb – Equal to Tomb
    Forge of Dreams – Equal to Ancient Ruins ?
    Crystal Mine – like gold mine. Is that to much of an early boost for players ? Might remove the guaranteed mana node to compensate.

    All normal structures equal to their normal chances.

    Anybody else any thoughts here ? If nobody replied tomorrow, im going with this.

    #269718

    Refineus
    Member

    Currently I’m asking what this will have for effect for our campaign.

    I’m using decodence map content and shadow realm mod to create scenarios. The implementations you are going to do is likely to affect which structures currently in use I guess. Which means in the end we will only use shadow realm mod?

    On discussion I won’t put in any thoughts so far, I believe it’s fine. However, all sites and their true names do not show up like “Gemstone mine” and “Crystal mine” they show both up as “Gold mine” and “Shadow weed” turn out as “Haste berries” It’s little confusing time from time what purpose is when creating maps. Otherwise I think it alright. Someone else might have other inputs to share.

    #269719

    Gloweye
    Member

    Currently I’m asking what this will have for effect for our campaign.

    What im doing, nothing. I duplicated all structures, so that I have full control over the site’s guardians that can spawn by default. If you want to make sure your structures have the correct default guardians instead of adding them by hand, you can use the duplicated structures. They’re all marked as such.

    I’m using decodence map content and shadow realm mod to create scenarios. The implementations you are going to do is likely to affect which structures currently in use I guess.

    Nope. Only if you actively choose to use the duplicates instead of the existing ones.

    As for the names, there’s a couple missing in the Decodence localization – I think we should add those ourselves. Just note down any you find, and we’ll do them as we come accross them. I already renamed shadow void to actually not be called Lava in the RMG mod, for example.

    EDIT:

    Also, we made a choice yet about those RG upgrade sites? Im thinking:

    Cloverfields – add ShadowWeed
    Farm/Spring – Do nothing
    Gold/Farm (Dreadnought, not RG) – Mines (already done, reverse if we dont want)
    Tomb – Tomb Reskin (And decodence Empty Tomb)

    I also updated the Treasure Site lists with all Decodence structures that im actually surprised weren’t in there, as well as all duplicates and our new treasure/exploration sites.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by  Gloweye.
    #269751

    Hiliadan
    Member

    This discussion is NOT going to have any references to weights. It’s not a measure of which we really have any idea what it does. More is more structures, but it’s not intuitive what weight is how many, and the consequences are vastly different per occurence. For example, global passes vs city rings.

    Therefore, we define like we do other structures on the normal layers. For example, you say, “I think we should treat structure X like we otherwise do dungeons, but a bit less often.”

    How do you implement “like Dungeons but a bit less often” in the mod tools? You duplicate the Dungeon part and increase the weight in each pass, right? So yes of course weights are important and we’re going to discuss them. It’s just that you need to discuss weights for EVERY passes, not just “0.45 in average”, because there is no such thing as an average, we understand that but we can handle the complexity.
    I’ll copy all the passes and weights of the Continent RMG in the Wikia as soon as I have time (in the coming week). You can of course do a first draft with the weights you mentioned in your post, it’s fine and it’s also a good way to do for a first draft and see what it gives, because, as you said, it’s something that can be hard to calibrate “in theory” and needs to be seen “in practice” and then calibrated at the margin.
    Even more importantly, we need to have a clear picture of what is replaced by what in which passes, and what income/MCU/reward these sites (new and replaced) give. That can be done without talking about weights but it’s very important to have a clear view of balance implications, that’s why the Excel files we started with HousePet is very important.

    Regarding sites, please do not modify what we agreed a very very long time ago now on your own. We can all understand that each of us have different preferences but we need to find consensus and respect past decisions. So please please, do not start adding stuff to the SR that have been excluded from it from the start. We can open the discussion and debate about it but it would be painful if you imposed facts on the ground to us by adding everything in the SR.

    Circle of Necromancy – like vanilla (Note to self: Update adventure sets. )

    There is no Necromantic Circle in the SR.

    (Undead Boneyard – like vanilla, but unsure if we’re putting it on ? Isn’t on the wiki, but I can’t think of a reason for that.)

    Not on the SR. As for Necromantic Circle, there is no Undead spawners on the SR. The SR has its own spawners with unique units so do not really need other spawners, especially Undeads.

    Archon Fort – Compare to Tomb

    Archon Fort is Strong and Tombs are Epic so I’d rather go with the Trading Post (outside city’s passes) or something similar.

    Forge of Dreams – Equal to Ancient Ruins ?

    It’s a +20 income structure so should rather be like Vault of Knowledge or Flowrock Quarry. But we need a more precise analysis for city’s passes.

    Crystal Mine – like gold mine. Is that to much of an early boost for players ? Might remove the guaranteed mana node to compensate.

    Same as as Forge of Dreams: need a more precise analysis, but fine to start like you

    Syron Tombs and Ruins should be renamed SR Tomb and SR Ancient Ruins.

    For the other sites, I think what you wrote makes sense (but will need to be looked at again after we have a full picture of the RMG).

    However, all sites and their true names do not show up like “Gemstone mine” and “Crystal mine” they show both up as “Gold mine” and “Shadow weed” turn out as “Haste berries”

    All the sites are not fully implemented yet (none are actually), that’s normal.

    As for the names, there’s a couple missing in the Decodence localization – I think we should add those ourselves. Just note down any you find, and we’ll do them as we come accross them. I already renamed shadow void to actually not be called Lava in the RMG mod, for example.

    Yes true, but probably better to do this in the main mod as all the structures are going to be there? Or is the dependency on Decodence only on the RMG mod? If so, it means map makers will need to enable the RMG mod to get access to Shadow Realm stuff?

    Also, we made a choice yet about those RG upgrade sites? Im thinking:

    Cloverfields – add ShadowWeed
    Farm/Spring – Do nothing
    Gold/Farm (Dreadnought, not RG) – Mines (already done, reverse if we dont want)
    Tomb – Tomb Reskin (And decodence Empty Tomb)

    Very good point! I update the Wiki with these ideas, I’ll come back to them later (no time to properly think about it now). Did you do the change in the main mod? It should not be in the RMG mod, right?

    I also updated the Treasure Site lists with all Decodence structures that im actually surprised weren’t in there, as well as all duplicates and our new treasure/exploration sites.

    I’m not sure which Treasure Site lists you are refering to. The Decodence sites that are not:
    Wicked Flames of Grauth
    Sword of the Ashen Rose
    Raven Home
    … Should not be included. We discussed that a very long time ago, cf. top of my post…

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by  Hiliadan.
    #269753

    Gloweye
    Member

    How do you implement “like Dungeons but a bit less often” in the mod tools? You duplicate the Dungeon part and increase the weight in each pass, right? So yes of course weights are important and we’re going to discuss them. It’s just that you need to discuss weights for EVERY passes, not just “0.45 in average”, because there is no such thing as an average, we understand that but we can handle the complexity.
    I’ll copy all the passes and weights of the Continent RMG in the Wikia as soon as I have time (in the coming week). You can of course do a first draft with the weights you mentioned in your post, it’s fine and it’s also a good way to do for a first draft and see what it gives, because, as you said, it’s something that can be hard to calibrate “in theory” and needs to be seen “in practice” and then calibrated at the margin.
    Even more importantly, we need to have a clear picture of what is replaced by what in which passes, and what income/MCU/reward these sites (new and replaced) give. That can be done without talking about weights but it’s very important to have a clear view of balance implications, that’s why the Excel files we started with HousePet is very important.

    Talking about weights is useless. Im going to build a first version tonight, which you can use to generate your map friday. After that, balancing should be done by just player/generating maps and noting down you got to much/to little of a site. Even weighted, sites are random. Talking about weights doesn’t make sense because nobody knows how much “0.45 times dungeon” feels.

    There is no clear replacement in the passes. I’m removing the vanilla passes, and adding the new ones at the same time. Just get the word replacement out of your head, please.

    Regarding sites, please do not modify what we agreed a very very long time ago now on your own. We can all understand that each of us have different preferences but we need to find consensus and respect past decisions. So please please, do not start adding stuff to the SR that have been excluded from it from the start. We can open the discussion and debate about it but it would be painful if you imposed facts on the ground to us by adding everything in the SR.

    Which is why I was asking. Do note tho, that there’s structures modded into the mod right now that you don’t have on the wiki – for example, there’s only one mention of forgotten throne on there, and six in the mod. There’s the Crystal and Mythril mine in the mod, but the wiki only talks about a Gemstone mine. Im considering the Crystal Mine to be the Gemstone one.

    For the rest, the RMG will make a map similar to continents, but it WILL be different. Please reserve judgement until after you see the map. I’ve already made plenty changes to landscaping, like those that allow the narrow paths crossing the void, or small islands of mountains inside the void because they look cool.

    There is no Necromantic Circle in the SR.

    Not on the SR. As for Necromantic Circle, there is no Undead spawners on the SR. The SR has its own spawners with unique units so do not really need other spawners, especially Undeads.

    Ok, we’ll open that rediscussion later. Just like the boneyard, because there’s no reason for it. They won’t be in the friday version, tho. There’s currently only two spawners, and that’s to little variety. Also, the SR being more hostile than surface/underground, it doesn’t make sense for them not to be there. (That said, No archons spawning from them. Those DONT make sense down there.)

    I’ve already prepared them in the mod, they’ll be ready for direct insertion anytime we want.

    Archon Fort is Strong and Tombs are Epic so I’d rather go with the Trading Post (outside city’s passes) or something similar.

    Trading Post and Tomb both give 20 resources income. They’re spawned pretty similar. But ok.

    It’s a +20 income structure so should rather be like Vault of Knowledge or Flowrock Quarry. But we need a more precise analysis for city’s passes.

    Flowrock Quarry is used in city rings, Vault in expansion site rings. Both of these are stronger than the Forge of Dreams, however, since mana is worth less than the others.

    Same as as Forge of Dreams: need a more precise analysis, but fine to start like you

    Syron Tombs and Ruins should be renamed SR Tomb and SR Ancient Ruins.

    Those names in the resources dont really matter. Im calling them that because that’s what they were called how I found them.

    That said, I’d just point them to the vanilla names of the normal structures in game. Would be easier. Doesn;t really matter what we call them.

    Yes true, but probably better to do this in the main mod as all the structures are going to be there? Or is the dependency on Decodence only on the RMG mod? If so, it means map makers will need to enable the RMG mod to get access to Shadow Realm stuff?

    Fine with putting it in the main mod.

    Very good point! I update the Wiki with these ideas, I’ll come back to them later (no time to properly think about it now). Did you do the change in the main mod? It should not be in the RMG mod, right?

    Made it in the main mod. They should at least function now. The ones without easy replacements are yet to be done, otherwise those races would be disadvantaged.

    I’m not sure which Treasure Site lists you are refering to. The Decodence sites that are not:
    Wicked Flames of Grauth
    Sword of the Ashen Rose
    Raven Home
    … Should not be included. We discussed that a very long time ago, cf. top of my post…

    Im talking about the lists like the ones used by Animistic Knowledge and Sanctified sites. The Decodence sites SHOULD be in there. They’re right next to the Racial Governance lists.

    And since time’s up, im going to put the passes together. I’ll put the mod in dropbox when it’s done.

    #269754

    Gloweye
    Member

    Not really going to work out today. Shadow Elves aren’t spawning as independents, and I’ve got no clue why. I’m guessing it’s got to do with the race definition.

    Also:

    Tomb retexture starts out explored. This means that either the adventure set is misassigned, or that the unit guard set is empty.

    I also forgot to duplicate the pickups, so I’ll do that friday, or saturday morning. I dont think we should wait for that before the first test (its rather minor). Its rather minor, and we know where it’s coming from.

    There’s still a few other changes I need to make, tho. But tomorrow evening, it’s all ready.

    #269755

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Tomb retexture starts out explored. This means that either the adventure set is misassigned, or that the unit guard set is empty.

    Yes, it’s likely the defender set is empty for now. Bob only added placeholders so far, no worry if 90% or even 100% of the sites look bugged so far, it will be improved soon.

    There’s the Crystal and Mythril mine in the mod, but the wiki only talks about a Gemstone mine. Im considering the Crystal Mine to be the Gemstone one.

    Yes, we have a name issue (noted in the “Shadow Realm alpha test” post) for the Gemstone Mine because its name is set in Decodence (as Crystal Mine, indeed), will be solved later on. For the Mythril, it is in the Wikia at the bottom of the Treasure site table.

    There’s currently only two spawners, and that’s to little variety.

    Yes I tend to agree with that but I’d like to see the current Shadow Realm before making changes, because for instance its area is smaller (due to all the void) so it might make sense to have less spawners. Also we can change the spawning frequency and add more diversity of the roaming sets.

    Im talking about the lists like the ones used by Animistic Knowledge and Sanctified sites. The Decodence sites SHOULD be in there. They’re right next to the Racial Governance lists.

    Ok, yes good point for these 2 spells. So you mean you already added the 3 sites (+ the ones from the surface) to the list for these 2 spells?

    EDIT: ” – Added the duplicate sites to all resource lists. They should now work with mana node bonuses etc. ” can this cause conflicts with mods also modifying the resource list?
    We should probably add it in the “Possible Conflicts.txt” file?

    Also, I’m not familiar with that, so does it mean the skills Animistic Knowledge, etc. are modified or is it another line in the Mod Tools which is modified? If so, which one?
    So does it mean other mods modifying Animistic Knowledge, etc. will be unaffected?

    I added the RG proposals and other changes related to treasure sites here:
    http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Hiliadan/Shadow_Realm_Community_Expansion#Racial_Governance_2

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by  Hiliadan.
    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by  Hiliadan.
    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by  Hiliadan.
    #269759

    Gloweye
    Member

    EDIT: ” – Added the duplicate sites to all resource lists. They should now work with mana node bonuses etc. ” can this cause conflicts with mods also modifying the resource list?
    We should probably add it in the “Possible Conflicts.txt” file?

    Perhaps ?

    TBH, The real way to do this would be to generate a new set that has the same name. I just forgot to do that at the right moment and didn’t feel like doing it over.

    Animistic Knowledge refers to this set by name, so it is not modified. It’s like the link between adventures sets and unit sets.

    #269762

    Hiliadan
    Member

    TBH, The real way to do this would be to generate a new set that has the same name

    Not clear why?

    Animistic Knowledge refers to this set by name, so it is not modified. It’s like the link between adventures sets and unit sets.

    Ok, same for Magical Structures (Sorcerer) and Sanctified Sites (Theo)?

    #269767

    Gloweye
    Member

    Not clear why?

    becuase they’re automatically merged on runtime, so you’ll never be incompatible. For example, the EL pack has another set named exactly like it, which adds the EL structures to the set.

    Ok, same for Magical Structures (Sorcerer) and Sanctified Sites (Theo)?

    Yes, they use the same ref. A while ago they didn’t, but they merged it to make it more logical, since they used a similar description.

    #269768

    Gloweye
    Member

    I’ve put a taf file in the mods folder. It works, most of the time, but there’s the occasional crash on game start that I can’t trace.

    Im not 100% sure if living archons spawn yet. Didn’t get errors, but haven’t seen them in my successful game starts. I think it’s best to use the exported version, and also grab a .taf of the main mod, so that we’ll have a stable version to work with, instead of updating halfway.

    #269774

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Ok thanks for the update to the RMG! 🙂

    I saw you renamed the “Shadow Realm RMG” folder in the Dropbox, but that mod is still necessary to generate maps with the SR layer (I just tried a few minutes ago and it’s still true now). It was a mod Dr_K created and we need to disentangle it from the rest so that we can remove it, but Bob didn’t have the time to check that yet. So meanwhile, let’s keep the folder.
    I moved your .taf in the Exported Mod Files folder.

    == Instructions for the alpha test participants ==
    1/ Subscribe to a/ Decodence Map Editor Content and b/ Decodence RMG Integration
    2/ Download the “Shadow Realm RMG.taf” and “SHADOW REALM.taf” files here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8tlc0m80ck5unqz/AAAw8Pnx2XJ1bTQX8In4nVjga?dl=0 and put them in your UserContent folder
    3/ Launch AoW3 with the 4 mods: you’re good to play
    4/ Join the PBEM session “Shadow Realm alpha test #2”, password: “happytesting”

    We’ll start in about 2-3 days when all (or most) have joined.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by  Hiliadan.
    #269775

    Gloweye
    Member

    how would you need to disengtangle anything ? The new RMG mod works fine, I tested it with the newest Shadow Realm mod.

    Also, there shouldn’t be two RMG mods. Better restart that game, because something’s going wrong.

    #269776

    Hiliadan
    Member

    how would you need to disengtangle anything ? The new RMG mod works fine, I tested it with the newest Shadow Realm mod.

    Also, there shouldn’t be two RMG mods. Better restart that game, because something’s going wrong.

    What I mean by disentangling stuff is that we should not have 2 RMG mods so we mean the same thing.

    So it seems that you renamed your RMG mod with the exact same name as the mod from Dr_K and when I renamed it back to its old name (Decodence Shadow Realm), it meant that when the .taf is decompressed, it creates two .acp and we end up with an “Decodence RMG – Shadow Realm.acp” and a “Shadow Realm RMG.acp”. I’m going to try but I guess using only the “Shadow Realm RMG.acp” is sufficient. So it means somehow it’s already disentangled and we do not need the old mod from Dr_K anymore. I have no idea why but that’s great anyway.

    So once this is confirmed, we can move the old mod from Dr_K to a back-up.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by  Hiliadan.
    #269779

    Hiliadan
    Member

    I tried again and this time I didn’t get two .acp, not sure what happened (even with the renamed .taf).
    I edited the instructions above and re-hosted, so we have only 4 mods.

    #269780

    Gloweye
    Member

    because I reuploaded the version I uploaded before. You messed up something before, and got the wrong .taf file, one that had nothing to do with mine.

    just to clarify, aside from the 2 mods from the workshop, just put the two .taf files from mods/exported in your usercontent folder and let the launcher unpack. They’re named:
    SHADOW REALM.taf
    Shadow Realm RMG.taf

    Install just these two, and ignore the archive folder.

    • This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by  Gloweye.
    #270567

    Hiliadan
    Member

    I plan to give this small screenshot for the Shadow Realm alpha test journal for turn 7 to update on the progress on the campaign (without giving spoilers about the plot):

    @refineus: any issue or can I share it?

    To update everyone on the progress:
    – Shadow Demons: I bought the models for about $85, vfxrob rigged them and provided a .clb. Dr_K added the Shadow Demon Lord to the mod, the others remain to be added.
    – icons: Lordoflinks created icons for the Shadow Elf racial and Warlord units. Later all the other SE units + Shadow Demons + Archons could be added, and then probably the new structures.
    – particle FX: Bob is adding the missing ones, 2 added recently.

    So good progress recently.
    I’m focusing on adding everything already designed first, then we’ll need to design the remaining features (e.g. medal ability for the Umbral Weaver, etc.). There are also a few debates not fully closed that we will need to discuss in the future.

    #270569

    Refineus
    Member

    I plan to give this small screenshot for the Shadow Realm alpha test journal for turn 7 to update on the progress on the campaign (without giving spoilers about the plot):

    @refineus: any issue or can I share it?

    This picture is outdated. It served primarily as illustration of dialogue and scripting regarding campaign. It can be used, but does’not refer to anything currently in campaign. I would prefer to use a new picture or a video demonstrating the first few turns or something.

    #270571

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Ok, yes I’m using the scenario from the March 15th update. It’s probably too early to make a video, as the scenario may evolve after the first tests, and it also takes much more time to do a good video, than to do a good screenshot. So could you please provide me a screenshot with some (finalized) dialogues but that doesn’t give spoilers? 🙂

    #270577

    Refineus
    Member

    Here are two updated ones and they’re in the beginning.

    #270585

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Thanks, I wrote the short journal log! 🙂

    @gloweye: does a target of the end of the month for an updated RMG seems realist to you? It would solve the zoom bug and other RMG-related bugs reported here: http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/shadow-realm-alpha-tests/#post-258272 (specifically on post #258272). If yes, we could start a 3rd test game with Lordoflinks and Dr_K (and maybe Bob if he is available) with the adequate RMG and new sites (in our 2nd test game, none of the new sites were there when the map was generated).

    @dr_k: might be too short to solve all the issues listed in the recap http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/shadow-realm-alpha-tests/#post-258272 AND finish adding the new sites by the end of the month I guess. Please let us know what you think is realist. Hopefully Bob can help soon, once all the PFX are done. 🙂

    #270586

    Dr_K
    Member

    Going to focus on the simple/known bugs/issues in the next few days. Most of the structures should be done, besides the numerous things in the issues lists. I should be available for a test game if we want to start another one.

    – if you created a custom Shadow Elf hero with the mods activated and you try to go to the “Custom” tab during Leader selection without the mods activated, it crashes AoW3 (was tested for a live MP game but I guess that applies to any game)

    Probably impossible to fix with mods.

    – Shadow Elf cities give High Elves instead of Shadow Elves as rewards

    Haven’t figured out where the quests are linked to race yet, but all of the quests and reward sets have already been created.

    – SE’s cities do not have the “Like Dense Vegetation”
    – SE Military RG2: “they use 5 Movement Points on the tactical combat map on the Shadow Realm” not displayed on the description. Not sure it’s implemented? (could not test)
    – Holow Grove’s reward is not implemented: http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Hiliadan/Hollow_Grove
    – the Spirit Breaker lacks: Chaos, Inflict Break Body and Soul, Strong Will Slayer and does not lose HP each combat turn.
    – Shadow Elves like Shadow climate (they should not)

    These should be easy to knock out or verify.

    – When a game is loaded, all the Shadow Elf leaders are displayed in the log through this error:
    [11:34:24][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE]Cannot find Hero Figure Media Dictionary found for: Mount: MOUNT_WYVERN, Race: Shadow Elf, Class: Necromancer, Gender: 2
    [11:34:24][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE]Cannot find Hero Figure Media Dictionary found for: Mount: MOUNT_WYVERN, Race: Shadow Elf, Class: Sorcerer, Gender: 1
    – when a game is loaded (even AFTER is has being generated, so on normal loads even on turn 2), the following errors are displayed:
    [11:34:24][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE][SCRIPTING ERROR] Error in line number 3. Message was:
    [11:34:25][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE] [string “”]:3: attempt to index field ‘STRUCT_GLOW’ (a nil value)
    [11:34:25][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE] Callstack:
    [11:34:25][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE] – NATIVE EventCall “OnVisitStateChanged” in [((null))]
    [11:34:25][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE][SCRIPTING ERROR] Error in line number 3. Message was:
    [11:34:25][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE] [string “”]:3: attempt to index field ‘STRUCT_GLOW’ (a nil value)
    [11:34:25][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE] Callstack:
    [11:34:25][ERROR][WORLD_ACTIVATE] – NATIVE EventCall “OnVisitStateChanged” in [((null))]
    – when a tactical map is loaded with a SE hero, the following error is displayed (if it’s a Theocrat):
    [11:37:04][ERROR]Cannot find Hero Figure Media Dictionary found for: Mount: MOUNT_WYVERN, Race: Shadow Elf, Class: Theocrat, Gender: 1

    Not sure what would cause those. Hopefully, just some missing links in the hero entries. Do you have a save file that consistently gives the errors?

    – crash with Draconians on the Shadow Realm layer on the SR on scenario map #1 of the campaign (to clarify)
    – searching the ToW crashes due to some missing icons

    Any details on these? I’ve not touched anything related to the ToW, so I’m not surprised that there are problems with it.

    #271989

    Hiliadan
    Member

    I was thinking about the picture of the expansion, it could be something like this:

    with:
    – a nice background from Triumph’s existing picture
    – the AoW3 title text (like in the picture above), then a text like “Shadow Realm community expansion” in the font of the game
    – a stylized screenshot of the key protagonists of the campaign (Grevara, Sundren, Worlak, Meandor, another Shadow Elf) EDIT: after discussion with Refineus, we suggest from left to right: Grevara, Sundren, Sydran (center), Worlak, Meandor / EDIT
    – a few key elements in the background (screenshots too): Shadow Demons and Shadow Elves (the army below the heroes, like in the picture above), Forgotten Throne (like the cities in the picture above)…

    What do you think?

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by  Hiliadan.
    #272000

    Dr_K
    Member

    I’ve added the Shadow Demon and Shadow Elven Chariot figures into the mod. There seem to be some things off with a few of the shadow demon models. I’m not sure if it is a problem that can be fixed in the clb file or if the rigging is slightly off, but I’m unsure of where to start with it. They are located in the Aow_UnitSpiders.rpk.

    Is there a finalized list of which shadow demon models were linked to which units?

    #272216

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Is there a finalized list of which shadow demon models were linked to which units?

    Yes, here: \Dropbox\AoW3-Shadow-Realm-expansion\models\ShadowDemon\20170815_Hiliadan_ShadowDemon_line-up.jpg
    You can see the match of each one with the old SD units (Lord – already linked -, Harvester, Bombard, Larva from top to bottom and left to right).

    For the Umbral Weaver chariot, I remember you said that would require re-adding the unit entirely, were you able to do that?

    I’m really looking forward to the full line up of Shadow Demons in the mod! 🙂 I’ll see if I can improve the rigging later, I did notice some issues when I tested them but it wasn’t very obvious.

    #272390

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Here are some proposals to move on on the last remaining topics, please provide feedback on them (for or against, we need to confirm them or improve the):

    Storm Tower (defensive building)
    1a/ 11 shock damage on a random enemy unit outside the wall and Dispel Magic on all ADJACENT enemy units (not on the unit hit by lightning) every turn.
    FOR: HousePet, Hiliadan

    1b/ 8 shock damage and Inflict Shocking on a random enemy unit outside the wall on every turn.
    FOR: Gloweye

    1c/ 9 shock damage and Inflict Marked by Shadows on a random enemy unit outside the wall on every turn.
    FOR: HousePet

    Infused
    The Infused is a T2 but has stats of a T1 because it has Shadow Shift, as explained by Drax. However, its stats are too low and we never really corrected that. Here were the proposals I made:
    So what about boosting it a bit (+1 def and a few HP maybe)?
    To make it more like a T2.

    Umbral Weaver
    The Umbral Weaver is lacking an Elite ability.
    Some ideas:
    – Pass Wall (inspired by the Weaver’s description written by Drax)
    – Freezing Touch (but might make it too much like an Ice Queen)*
    – an ability to transform climate to Shadow. Could be quite strong though. Could be a Path of Shadow, working like Path of Frost. Or could be similar to Last Rite of Winter but costing mana for instance.

    It also doesn’t have Veteran medal. Maybe we could move Inflict Chilling to Veteran, but I don’t have yet enough balance experience with it to judge if it’s too strong or too weak or balanced.

    And by the way, it’s a Chariot so it should get Charge, like the Sabretooth Chariot.

    Celestial Pool
    I made proposals to complete the current visit effect of “heal living creatures when visited”:
    – give Undead units a new strategic healing that is added as a property for 3 strategic turns, that allow 8 HP healed / turn. (is it possible in combination with Cannot Regenerate? not sure)
    – gives True Sight and +1 Vision Range to visiting units for 3 turns
    – gives a random buff to visiting units from the list of Meditate but with the best buffs removed

    Gloweye preferred a full heal for Undeads too or no heal for them at all.
    Opinions?

    Recruitment structures on the Shadow Realm
    We need two, one for Shadow Realm-related units, and one for the rest. What was the recruitment structure in AoW:SM?
    The recruitment structure for Athla’s forces should be a mercenary camp. We lack a model but we can probably use an edited Inn / Brigand Hideout? Lordoflinks, would you be interested in making such a structure? It would host the exact same units as an Inn I guess?

    By the way, should Athla’s Inn host Shadow Elves? I guess they will automatically actually?

    Archon Legionary
    Ok so based on the AoW2:SM’s Legionary http://aow2.heavengames.com/aowsm/gameinfo/units/archons.shtml#legionary and making it a Pikeman because of the Spear, here is a first proposal:
    Tier I
    Cost: 50 gold
    45 HP
    28 MP
    10 def
    9 res
    Melee: 10
    Throw Spear: 10 physical as Throw Javelin (I vaguely remember that it didn’t take AP in AoW2:SM, is that right?)
    Shield
    Pikeman (Polearm, Pike Square, First Strike)
    Archon (Dedicated to Good, 40% Spirit Protection)
    Walking

    Medal: Strong Will on Elite

    Defender set #3 of the Forgotten Throne
    Replacements are needed for the 2 Dark Elf units that were planned. So I propose:
    Shadow Elf Umbral Weaver, Shadow Elf Exterminator, Shadow Elf Storm Priest, Shadow Elf Infused
    + Frost Dragon, Shadow Walker, Lesser Shadow Walker

    (also I see I need to correct the 1st defender set: it’s Lord + Harvester + Bombard, there should be no “Brain”)

    Replacement for Warp Equipment for the Forge of Dreams
    I don’t remember if it was Bob or Dr_K who said it was not possible to implement.
    Isn’t it possible to create a new battle enchantment that mimics the effect of Warp Equipment?
    – each turn, a single (attacking) unit is targeted: all (attacking) units in a 2 hex radius that meets the criteria are also affected
    – affected units receive a random debuff to its attack, defense or both
    – affected units are the same as Warp Equipment: http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Warp_Equipment Incorporeals are also never affected.

    We managed to apply Suffocate once per round with a new battle enchantment we created in the balance mod, so what is blocking a Warp Equipment equivalent?

    SE Military RG2
    “they use 5 Movement Points on the tactical combat map on the Shadow Realm” not displayed on the description. Cannot be implemented because the tactical map does not check for overlay or climate.
    So, reminder of the other options we discussed:
    – Protector Military: Shadow Elf Night Guard gain Ground Magic
    – Protector Military: Arcane Archers and Night Guards Magical Projectile Resistance (+2 res against elemental ranged damage)
    – Protector Military: Arcane Archers and Infused gain Armoured
    – Protector Military: Arcane Archers and Infused gain Infused Armour: Armoured, 20% Frost Protection
    – Protector Military: Night Guards and Exterminators gain +50% experience

    Another option would be to give Exterminator Athletics. So they would get -1 movement cost not just on the Shadow layer but on all layers. It’s my favoured solution.

    EDIT: and another option would be to give +6 MP to the Exterminator when on the Shadow Realm layer through something like Night Vision. That would boost its movement on the strategic layer too but might be better than the other options still.
    Could also be make strategic moves cost +1 MP, and give it +9 MP so that it is at 45 MP. 45/5=9, just like 36/4=9, so no additional movement on the strategic layer. 45/6=7.5 so 7 movements on the tactical layer. / EDIT

    Use of Decodence RMG integration
    I’ll push the continuation of this debate to later as this post is already long.
    Initial post with recap of opinions: aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/shadow-realm-brainstorm/page/31/#post-258169
    The latest posts about this:
    http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/shadow-realm-brainstorm/page/33/#post-258645 (Hiliadan)
    http://aow.triumph.net/forums/topic/shadow-realm-brainstorm/page/33/#post-258653 (Gloweye)

    • This reply was modified 4 years ago by  Hiliadan.
    #272418

    Dr_K
    Member

    That was the link I was looking for. Thanks! The bombard model is probably the most screwed up rigging-wise.

    For the Umbral Weaver chariot, I remember you said that would require re-adding the unit entirely, were you able to do that?

    I haven’t done that yet. I wanted to get the rigging sorted out first before running through the unit recreation.

    Isn’t it possible to create a new battle enchantment that mimics the effect of Warp Equipment?

    I forget why, but unless I missed something or a work around, the way the Random Effects are applied wouldn’t work for the way battlefield enchantments take effect

    #272590

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Hiliadan wrote:

    Isn’t it possible to create a new battle enchantment that mimics the effect of Warp Equipment?

    I forget why, but unless I missed something or a work around, the way the Random Effects are applied wouldn’t work for the way battlefield enchantments take effect

    Ok, so if it is confirmed, maybe the way to go is to make the debuff not random, for instance -1 defense and -1 melee?

    Also, opinion of Bob on “2/ Should we remove Decodence’s sites and climates (Tundra and Autumn) from the surface and underground layers?“: (sent on Steam) “You wanted to become completely independent from Decodence didn’t you? In that case I’d say yes.”

    #272799

    Hiliadan
    Member

    @vfxrob: some time ago, I told you I still had a few questions, here are the ones I remember now. 😛
    – did you add new sounds for your Insectoid Race? Where did you get them, are they free and can we use yours? That would be terrific to be able to use them for the Shadow Demons! 🙂
    – we need to optimize the following .clb:
    arch_cloth.clb
    DwellingArchon.clb
    TC_City_Archon_Background.clb
    TC_CITY_ARCHON_FOREGROUND.CLB
    TC_City_ShadowElves_Background.clb
    TC_CITY_SHADOWELVES_FOREGROUND.CLB
    Treasure_LarvaePool.clb
    Because they are too big and will contribute to slowing down the game or even causing crash for large maps or in combination with other big mods. At some stage, we discussed you creating a video explaining how to optimize .clb. Would you be able to post such a video so that Lordoflinks can work on the optimization? I assume it involves choosing the right size of pixels for the textures, etc. and maybe using other compression or format prior to importing pictures in the .clb?
    – I think you lacked time to provide these “Elf-based replacements for the male hero bodies”? Or I might have lost the link.

    Many many thanks in advance for your future help and we already owe you a lot for the expansion. 🙂 (planning to move to closed beta by the end of the month)
    I might have forgotten a few other things, which I might post later.

    #272817

    vfxrob
    Member

    Insectoid Sound
    If you guys want to get started on the sound, I started creating about half of my own by blending a couple of free sound files but then added a second round using the Zergs audio in Starcraft.

    For authenticity id recommend using the shadow demons in AOW2 and importing those in (they didn’t suit exactly what i wanted) you could probably use the Syrons for the shadow elves too (or just use the vanilla), this would save on someone learning how to import and they are also already compressed so it will be lite on your mod.

    I used freesound.org and there are sounds there with licences to edit freely, most ask just to be credited.

    Insectoid sounds with both my own and the zerg audio.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/rpjkbm9dko6cl05/Insectoids_bank00.fsb?dl=0
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/qkjcs285l730d48/Insectoids.fev?dl=0

    Adding sound is a little time consuming, but pretty easy for someone to follow this guide.

    Modding – Sound FX

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