Shadow Realm – Brainstorm

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Home Forums Modding and Map Making Shadow Realm – Brainstorm

This topic contains 1,098 replies, has 37 voices, and was last updated by  Refineus 3 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #245024

    vfxrob
    Member

    Seems like the archons are covered, damn shame you can’t get Tibbles for the shadow elves, those reskinned units look far more amazing than anything i could do.

    #245028

    vfxrob
    Member

    Will make a start on the shadow elves soon,

    Can someone please let me know what the standard units will be> e.g. special, archers, support type, any particular cavalry, e.g. shadow steed, or some kind of beetle.

    My plan is to use ninjaripper, and modify them a bit and use the elven models for the class units is to have parts of them glow e.g., eyes hands, they should look pretty cool.

    #245029

    Dr_K
    Member

    As a shot in the dark for a starting point for the given Archon Racial line-up stats
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kg6TlnsTUsRYmQt-gJS_rQJdBkKw14CtQKjGHy2PNs0/edit?usp=sharing

    Note: I hadn’t actually looked at Flenoom’s models when I made this list.

    I’ll add another sheet for a list of everything that needs to be done for the full race, unless we want to use something else to track that.

    Heroes/Leaders:
    We should create a full set of matching heroes and leaders with every class. If time is a restraint, I don’t think it’s an issue if we only got one outfit per class, but I don’t know much about this either. Not sure if there’s other people who’ve done it in the past, but once the outfits are linked to the races, it’s pretty trivial to create them in the rpk’s.

    Along with some ideas for names, we’re also gonna want 9 “hero special skills” to go with the heroes we build.

    Like the units, we might be able to reuse a bunch of the human leader visuals so that we don’t need to create too many extra graphics.

    From AoW2 we have a few heroes:

    Chanta – Theocrat
    Arcos – Warlord(?)
    Frederic – Warlord

    Might be more in the other games that I don’t remember.

    Im not gonna build them all on the Wiki – it takes more time than it does to build the unit in the mod tools, let alone updating them all. Perhaps I’ll do it at the end, if we’ve decided.

    I can just keep track of the proposed ideas in the same spreadsheet so that they are all in one convenient place.

    #245040

    Gloweye
    Member

    In general, pretty much what I had in mind. Notes:

    – “Testudo” can’t be build in afaik. But just having throw spear (11)(once per combat) and defender on gold seems good enough IMO.

    – Chariot Archer: I was actually thinking about making it 8/8 physical/ranged. Give it a little semblance of the chariot we used to have. (also, shooting from a moving cart can’t be that easy..). Also, keep some difference with the Mounted Archer. If it’s to weak, maybe add Charge to make it a real Hybrid.

    – Saint: Def 8 -> 7 and melee 7 -> 5. Resurrect is strong – we should really stimulate not coming to close.

    Avenger: give it like 7/6 damage. 5/5 is just to few for a T3 I think. Also, was just thinking about a 16 damage Spirit Blast instead of some other ability. And make it an Irregular, albeit with True Sight. (Perhaps shove True Sight into race global ability? ). If the avenger proves to strong, we can reduce HP back to 60. And perhaps change defenses to 11/11 instead of 11/13.

    #245055

    Thariorn
    Member

    “Testudo” can’t be build in afaik. But just having throw spear (11)(once per combat) and defender on gold seems good enough IMO.

    Couldn’t you have a skill, which applies Reinforced and after that sets the unit in Guard Stance like Defensive Strike?

    #245058

    Leon Feargus
    Member

    My plan is to use ninjaripper, and modify them a bit and use the elven models for the class units is to have parts of them glow e.g., eyes hands, they should look pretty cool.

    But I am sure you could use Tibbles’ already made models, no?
    For instance, the Highelf Scout is very useful.

    As a shot in the dark for a starting point for the given Archon Racial line-up stats

    This is one powerful line-up … I like it!

    – “Testudo” can’t be build in afaik. But just having throw spear (11)(once per combat) and defender on gold seems good enough IMO.

    In Garresh’ instruction video he has the Iron Legion with Lock Shield ability, which does something similar. (I prefer the name Shield Wall, though)

    Avenger: give it like 7/6 damage. 5/5 is just to few for a T3 I think. Also, was just thinking about a 16 damage Spirit Blast instead of some other ability. And make it an Irregular

    Yes, definitely irregular.

    #245063

    Gloweye
    Member

    Idea for the archon racials:

    – Like Fertile Plains
    – Hate Blighted
    – Hate Volcanic
    – Dislike Tropical

    – +1 Resistance(evaluate racials on per case basis – most of them already have high values)
    – True Sight
    – 40/60% Spirit Protection
    – something else? Blight weakness fits as idea, but I don’t like it.

    “Testudo” can’t be build in afaik. But just having throw spear (11)(once per combat) and defender on gold seems good enough IMO.

    Couldn’t you have a skill, which applies Reinforced and after that sets the unit in Guard Stance like Defensive Strike?

    That’s different from “Testudo (reinforced when defending)”. It could work tho.

    In Garresh’ instruction video he has the Iron Legion with Lock Shield ability, which does something similar. (I prefer the name Shield Wall, though)

    I’d have to take a look at that….and at the description of “something similar”. because afaik we can’t give anything on units “when guarding”. Even Defender doesn’t – it changes the current bonus from guard mode. The Awareness boost is even so hardcoded that we can’t do shit about it.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by  Gloweye.
    #245065

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Guys, wait wait wait! We were talking of Shadow Elves as a race, not Archons! 😀
    I don’t really like the idea of Archons as a race and I believe it’s better to use the mod done by Flenoom and Zaskow which is a dwelling, it means almost no extra work required. Zaskow confirmed he had the files but he needs to discuss with Flenoom to confirm they’re ok to share them. The mod was almost done, only RMG integration was lacking.

    Regarding the “track changes” of all the ideas, I started this already: http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Hiliadan/Shadow_Realm_Community_Expansion
    I propose to continue it. I’m lagging behind a bit but I’ll add all the ideas soon, don’t worry.

    vfxrob, I propose that you start with some class racial units, like Hunters, Evangelists, etc. That way you can work without needing to know the line up of Shadow Elves.

    Gloweye, your ideas can still be used for the Archon Dwelling (like / hate terrains, etc.). Maybe let’s wait to see what Flenoom and Zaskow have produced before continuing work on the Archons.
    And your list of things to do apply also to the Shadow Elves.

    I’m ok to test the races / dwelling / etc in PBEM and I’m sure I’ll find player to do so. We can already start testing the Dark Elves for instance (even without full models).

    #245068

    Thariorn
    Member

    Thariorn wrote:
    Gloweye wrote:
    “Testudo” can’t be build in afaik. But just having throw spear (11)(once per combat) and defender on gold seems good enough IMO.
    Couldn’t you have a skill, which applies Reinforced and after that sets the unit in Guard Stance like Defensive Strike?
    That’s different from “Testudo (reinforced when defending)”. It could work tho.
    Fair enough.

    I wager we can’t disable the default <em<Guard Stance-Skill on units?

    #245072

    Gloweye
    Member

    Guys, wait wait wait! We were talking of Shadow Elves as a race, not Archons!

    Both? 😀

    TBH, If we’re not sure, we can put it to the vote. Archons is the easier race to make, and from the lore, there’s no reason for one over the other as full race. And….if the moddelers can handle it, there’s no problem at all.

    Tho we can always start with a dwelling that we can later convert to a full race.(will cause incompatibilities with existing save games tho)

    I wager we can’t disable the default <em<Guard Stance-Skill on units?

    Nope.

    #245130

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Brainstorm on Shadow Elves:

    – of course, very good on the Shadow Realm, but less so in other layers
    – should NOT be very good aggressive fighters because the Dark Elves of Gloweye are already like that and we want them to be different
    – could be pretty good with magic (but not necessarily resistant to it), e.g. heroes get +5 casting point
    – a support unit which can invoke a familiar (a bit like what Garresh did I think, with some kinds of invokable sprites, if I remember correctly) – that would be pretty new and make them play differently than other races
    – abilities link to sacrifice? sacrifice of units? of HP to create nice effects? a blood sacrifice from one unit to boost another?
    – movement ability like Shadow Step but with something more innovative to it like maybe first a random move, then a shadow step of 3 hexes?
    – an strategic map ability to get Invisibility but loses 90% HP and no regeneration (all for 2 turns?) for one unit
    – monster slayer, demon slayer, etc.
    – befriend Monster? and befriend Demons for their T3?

    #245133

    Gloweye
    Member

    hmmm..perhaps I like the concept of glass cannon elves a bit to much, but hey.

    I like the casting point thing. I also think we should give them shadowrealm movement bonus – like cave crawling for the UG races.

    For the combat summon, I like it. Perhaps we can give them some control over (lesser?) shadow demons in a more general sense. Like a Stag Mount cavalry, a combat summon for the priest(stronger one for the Shaman?). We should get a special requisite for the Demons, which they can have a Slayer ability for and perhaps a “Control Demon”(NOT befriend).

    Regarding the casting from HP….kinda like it. How about giving all heroes a free, non-CD ability that gives them 20 damage and 10 CP ? make them casters, but also *very* vulnerable if they use it. One of the better Nuke Spells could one-shot them if you don’t have resistances/bonus HP and you use the bonus CP.

    #245136

    Dr_K
    Member

    Both?

    TBH, If we’re not sure, we can put it to the vote. Archons is the easier race to make, and from the lore, there’s no reason for one over the other as full race. And….if the moddelers can handle it, there’s no problem at all.

    It would be nice if we could do both, but it would probably be better to take small steps with the need for graphics since adding an entire race requires quite a lot of new/altered visuals if we want it to look significantly different from the old ones (and new dwelling).

    Since the Archons already have a foundation to work with, I would propose work on making them a full race to start and adding the Shadow elves as a full race (or dwelling) after the bulk of the work is done depending on time/manpower restrictions. Especially if we are considering adding Shadow Demon creatures as well.

    Also, personally, I feel that an Archon race would be much more interesting when paired with the class system in AoW3 due to their background than a new elven race would.

    Tho we can always start with a dwelling that we can later convert to a full race.(will cause incompatibilities with existing save games tho)

    If the plan is to release all of this together as a single mod or collection of mods, I think this would be a terrible idea to change it sometime after the initial release.

    Regarding the “track changes” of all the ideas, I started this already: http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Hiliadan/Shadow_Realm_Community_Expansion
    I propose to continue it. I’m lagging behind a bit but I’ll add all the ideas soon, don’t worry.

    The wiki’s nice for the ideas, but I find google docs easier for what we need. Regardless of which we use, we need an actual detailed inventory of what we have now, what we are aiming to finish, and a breakdown of what we actual need to get there.

    If we are going to continue using the wiki, we should probably separate the ideas page from the finalized plan/inventory. Also as a note, only you, Gloweye, and myself can edit the wiki page you made since only the user and admins can edit blog posts. Just in case we wanted to set the page up so that anyone can edit.

    #245140

    Gloweye
    Member

    Since the Archons already have a foundation to work with, I would propose work on making them a full race to start and adding the Shadow elves as a full race (or dwelling) after the bulk of the work is done depending on time/manpower restrictions. Especially if we are considering adding Shadow Demon creatures as well.

    Also, personally, I feel that an Archon race would be much more interesting when paired with the class system in AoW3 due to their background than a new elven race would.

    Yeah, was kind of my feeling as well.

    If the plan is to release all of this together as a single mod or collection of mods, I think this would be a terrible idea to change it sometime after the initial release.

    Possibly correct. Wrote faster than i thought here.

    #245160

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Gloweye, you were the one arguing with Eomolch for 3 pages that Archons could not be a Race and had to be a Dwelling because they are dedicated to Good and a Race cannot be. I agree with that idea. And the fact that Archons have already been developped for a Dwelling does not mean it’s a good idea to transform them into a Race! It just means the work is already done for the Dwelling. I think we need at least 2 inhabitants for the Shadow Realm otherwise it makes no sense to build it as it will be empty (treasure sites only are not sufficient). So in any case, we need to build another Dwelling or Race in addition to the Archons. Shadow Elves can be that.

    I don’t see what Archons bring to the game in terms of gameplay? Shadow Elves did not exist previously and allow us to add really new gameplay concepts, like sacrifice for abilities, combat summon, etc.
    Some concepts from Garresh’s Variant Arsenal mods could be used: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=516172401&searchtext= (Time Witch, Feral Berserker, Conjurer, Mage Slayer, Bone Weaver)

    We need new models in any case, so do not take that as an excuse to justify an Archon race…

    Gloweye, would the mod to include Shadow Realm in the RMG be releasable?

    #245163

    Gloweye
    Member

    Well…I just got exited about the full race idea. And im kinda willing to scrap the dedicated to good.

    Agree with the minimum amount of two races.

    Gloweye, would the mod to include Shadow Realm in the RMG be releasable?

    I’d like to run an additional check, but I dont see why not. The only reason I haven’t done so yet is because most treasure sites look seriously out of place.

    #245191

    Dr_K
    Member

    And the fact that Archons have already been developped for a Dwelling does not mean it’s a good idea to transform them into a Race!

    Correct, but the WAY that they were developed for that dwelling makes them almost fit a complete racial line-up perfectly.

    We need new models in any case, so do not take that as an excuse to justify an Archon race…

    It’s actually a great excuse. Using already made models for a race means that we have to do less work to complete said race, and adding a new race will be much more appealing than just throwing the archons in a dwelling. The fact that we need models, and the fact that we only have 2-3 modellers that are willing to work on this project means we should make the most of the designs we already have.

    I think we need at least 2 inhabitants for the Shadow Realm otherwise it makes no sense to build it as it will be empty (treasure sites only are not sufficient). So in any case, we need to build another Dwelling or Race in addition to the Archons. Shadow Elves can be that.

    I don’t see what Archons bring to the game in terms of gameplay? Shadow Elves did not exist previously and allow us to add really new gameplay concepts, like sacrifice for abilities, combat summon, etc.
    Some concepts from Garresh’s Variant Arsenal mods could be used: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=516172401&searchtext= (Time Witch, Feral Berserker, Conjurer, Mage Slayer, Bone Weaver)

    Interesting combinations that need to be fleshed out and can be played with a lot: Archon Necromancer and Archon Rogue. Both of those type of abilities already exist in the game, and aren’t exactly new concepts that can’t be applied to old races.

    The fact that shadow elves did not exist previously is also another reason they shouldn’t be made into a race. If anything they should be made as a dwelling instead of Archons (or Dark Elves for matter), and you can add plenty of interesting gameplay options (as well as new visual styles without having to adapt it for leaders and classes) to dwelling units without having to be so careful of balance like you have to with a full race.

    This entire project is essentially based on missing lore elements in AoW3, so we should run with those as the big additions for the project and the rest as smaller additions.

    Personally, I think we should have both the Dark Elves and the Archons as full races, and add Shadow Demons and Syrons as dwellings with Shadow Elves being scrapped completely (Syrons always looked like Shadow Realm elves to me anyway).

    Regardless of what we do, we still need a very detailed list of what we have already. Saying we have a dwelling completed without knowing what’s actually included in it besides the models is not conducive to deciding how much work we have left to do on it.

    We should find a way to have a central place to share the files so that it’s easier for everyone involved to know what’s going on whether it’s git, google or just a simple email list with attachments (could get very large).

    The only reason I haven’t done so yet is because most treasure sites look seriously out of place.

    Are we going to need a reskin of the structures so that they don’t look out of place in the shadow realm or just create enough new ones?

    #245192

    Hiliadan
    Member

    It’s actually a great excuse. Using already made models for a race means that we have to do less work to complete said race, and adding a new race will be much more appealing than just throwing the archons in a dwelling. The fact that we need models, and the fact that we only have 2-3 modellers that are willing to work on this project means we should make the most of the designs we already have.

    ? What I say is that we should use these models for a Dwelling, not a Race. Of course, we need to use these models. Seriously, your argument is very biased. The fact that we have these models do not justify at all making them a Race. We would need additional models to build a Race.

    This entire project is essentially based on missing lore elements in AoW3, so we should run with those as the big additions for the project and the rest as smaller additions.

    Not at all for me. I don’t care at all about lore! Very few people do. If your objective is to make a good lore story and aim for 20 people playing the mod, I think we have a major disagreement. What interests me is to make an expansion that is played by 75% of the current players of AoW3+DLC.

    Saying we have a dwelling completed without knowing what’s actually included in it besides the models is not conducive to deciding how much work we have left to do on it.

    Sure but we are waiting for an answer from Flenoom.

    2 Races is clearly too much work. We can only aim for 1 Race and 2-3 Dwelling (the Dark Elves one is already finished except for some models).

    I’m going to update the wiki on the discussion so far…

    #245193

    Gloweye
    Member

    Personally, I think we should have both the Dark Elves(as a full race)

    Completely disagree here. If we want to bring out the awesome of the race, we can’t do that with a full race – it’s always been concentrated at T3 – and we only got one slot.

    Aside, we can’t loresplain it. There’s few in Athla, and we’ve just about decided that the shadow elves are those who’ve been in the shadowrealm, attuned to local nature, stuff like that. We don’t have a place we can get them from.

    Lastly, the dwelling’s just about finished. I might not ever have intended it to be part of this, but it seems other people would appreciate the possibility.

    Are we going to need a reskin of the structures so that they don’t look out of place in the shadow realm or just create enough new ones?

    reskin will do for a lot at the very least. I believe Charlatan made a post about it a couple pages back ?

    #245195

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Yes Charlatan talked about reskin for Athla’s structures moved to the SR.
    I finished updating the wiki up to the end of p.3. I’ll do p.4 and p.5 later. http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Hiliadan/Shadow_Realm_Community_Expansion (I need to polish a bit the formatting at some places)

    I agree with you Dr_K that when we start really coding, etc. we may also need a separate document (GoogleDoc’s spreadsheet is probably the best) to check progress and detail what is needed. However, I believe most can be done by just assigning parts of the things to do (like “do the RMG stuff”, “do the modelling for Shadow Elves”, etc.) to specific people who then organize themselves.

    Gloweye, I guess you could complete the Shadow Realm RMG mod by:
    1/ adding Shadow Sickness as described in the wiki: http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Hiliadan/Shadow_Realm_Community_Expansion#Shadow_Sickness
    2/ removing the structures which are not listed here (below the table, the structures from the current game): http://age-of-wonders-3.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Hiliadan/Shadow_Realm_Community_Expansion#Treasure_sites (it’s your own list mostly + feedback from Charlatan)
    3/ starting to do the spawn sites, without the models
    4/ maybe add the Dark Elf Dwelling in it? (spawning in the UG)?

    There are something like 18 proposals for the treasure sites in the SR. Charlatan said himself he planned to model only 5-6. We should choose them among the big list. Actually, maybe the best is that Charlatan chooses them himself and then we build on them in terms of bonus they give and Mythical City Upgrades linked.

    #245197

    Gloweye
    Member

    4/ maybe add the Dark Elf Dwelling in it? (spawning in the UG)?

    Was going to keep that independent. There’s no problems with it, no patch needed.

    For the treasure sites, I think we should pick a couple and stick with them first, at least the new ones. My favorites:

    Shadow Temple (Change MCU to also bestow permanent shadow walking on produced units)
    Archon Fort
    Crystal Mine
    Shadow Node
    Mithril Mine
    Shadow Weed (missing in your list, but Charlatan already has models. Should give just Shadow Walking for like 3 turns. Perhaps minor happiness bonus for cities.)

    For spawners, I’ll be using Boneyards for the moment – the others need working units.

    New sites are easy to add and can’t cause incompatibilities. Along with existing and decodence structures, those 5 should make plenty variety.

    So, im going to build a base file, which includes:
    Dependencies:
    – Decodence Map Editor Content
    – Decodence RMG Patch
    I want the second one because I already prepared some stuff in there to hook in the Shadow Realm without requiring bonus patch combinations for every other mod. Plus, I can’t really imagine people wanting them without each other.

    The above 5 structures (some may end up in decodence someday) will be in there, along with at least a couple requisites – Shadow Walking, the Shadow Sickness debuff, and any modifiers that occur from it. It’ll also contain (functional dummy versions of) the treasure sites.

    I’m gonna see if I can prepare RMG hooks for the other mods to hook into without requiring dependencies, but im not really sure if that’s gonna work yet – depends on error handling policy of not-existing reference names. I have a feeling it’s gonna work tho.

    #245199

    Flenoom
    Moderator

    Hi guys! Sorry, I have failed you, if you expected my mod. At some point, I lost my enthusiasm and could not continue its work.
    However, the archons model almost completed, except for some small details. I will share my materials, and you can improve it themselves.
    Ok, what we have here: archers, infantry, priestesses, avengers, paladins and titan. Here is CLB file with models. Here is ACP file, where you can see how I put together a model with weapons, helmets, etc. Note: there are some problems with visualization of the models in the game, such as – the head or helmet may have a clipping-problem. If you encounter these things – just tell me here, I will try to resolve the issue.
    Good luck, guys!

    Preview for models:
    11

    UPD: looks like I broke my dropbox ((
    See Zaskow’s post, there are right link.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 7 months ago by  Flenoom.
    #245200

    Dr_K
    Member

    Seriously, your argument is very biased. The fact that we have these models do not justify at all making them a Race. We would need additional models to build a Race.

    Look, your argument is just as biased with a different twist since you want something new and exciting but not relevant to the actual lore. Of course we would need additional models for a full race, but less of them than if we were starting at nothing.

    Not at all for me. I don’t care at all about lore! Very few people do. If your objective is to make a good lore story and aim for 20 people playing the mod, I think we have a major disagreement. What interests me is to make an expansion that is played by 75% of the current players of AoW3+DLC.

    There is nothing preventing us from at least attempting to do both.

    Dr_K wrote:
    Personally, I think we should have both the Dark Elves(as a full race)
    Completely disagree here. If we want to bring out the awesome of the race, we can’t do that with a full race – it’s always been concentrated at T3 – and we only got one slot.

    Lastly, the dwelling’s just about finished. I might not ever have intended it to be part of this, but it seems other people would appreciate the possibility.

    Both those reasons are why I think it’s actually much more practical to do the dwelling for them.

    Shadow Temple (Change MCU to also bestow permanent shadow walking on produced units)
    Archon Fort
    Crystal Mine
    Shadow Node
    Mithril Mine
    Shadow Weed (missing in your list, but Charlatan already has models. Should give just Shadow Walking for like 3 turns. Perhaps minor happiness bonus for cities.)

    I’d second that list of structures. If there’s anything you need me to do, let me know. I’m going to start playing around with the technical details of adding a new race though, should be a lot of copy and pasting.

    #245203

    Zaskow
    Member

    Here is link with archons models – https://www.dropbox.com/s/ymjgn1jk3z8cljn/33.rar?dl=0
    URLs in Flenoom’s post are broken.

    #245205

    Leon Feargus
    Member

    However, the archons model almost completed, except for some small details. I will share my materials, and you can improve it themselves.

    Thanks Flenoom, they look great!
    Are you sure you don’t want to help with this project? 🙂

    Not at all for me. I don’t care at all about lore! Very few people do. If your objective is to make a good lore story and aim for 20 people playing the mod, I think we have a major disagreement. What interests me is to make an expansion that is played by 75% of the current players of AoW3+DLC.

    I care about lore! All or most things discussed in this thread have a lore background. Of course we want players to want this mod, but to stick to lore isn’t a bad thing imho.

    2 Races is clearly too much work. We can only aim for 1 Race and 2-3 Dwelling (the Dark Elves one is already finished except for some models).

    – If Gloweye has an (almost) finished Darkelf dwelling it would be silly not to use it, so I definitely vote for that.
    – I don’t believe anyone did anything for Syrons yet, but I still would like to see them return as playable characters (so not just roamers) in a Shadow Realm mod. Easiest solution: Dwelling.
    – I really can’t come to a solid conclusion as to Archons. I’ve heard good arguments for an Archon dwelling as well as for an Archon race.
    – Please, please, please consider Shadow Thrall as a new class! (I could go into detail, if requested)

    #245206

    Gloweye
    Member

    – I don’t believe anyone did anything for Syrons yet, but I still would like to see them return as playable characters (so not just roamers) in a Shadow Realm mod. Easiest solution: Dwelling.

    I would like them to come back to, and I know this is shared desire – however, it’s pretty difficult to come up with a good lineup, or even a racial theme other than “shock damage and shadow”.

    – Please, please, please consider Shadow Thrall as a new class! (I could go into detail, if requested)

    Even if we had all the modellers we could ever want, were still limited to existing unit rigs and animations. My concern is that this may….adversely affect a lot of things. A brain might take a Watcher’s model, a Harvester a Beetle’s…..but what’s gonna be the Skimmer, for example ?

    Im not against the idea, honestly not, and if you have a good plan, I’ll gladly help you build it. But we gotta find a way to make it different enough from the vanilla classes.

    It’s also really tons of work…right now, even if we have only 1 new race, we need at least 14 new hero outfits, 7 male 7 female. Add in a single class and that explodes to 34 – and that gives only a single look for the entire combination, absolutely no customization. I don’t think we have the workforce for that ATM.

    My suggestion is, publish with a race, perhaps a dwelling, and a selection of treasure sites. more dwellings, special monsters, they’re all comparably easy to edit in. Also, if we do a good job of what we do have the people for, it might attract other people, preferably modelers, to help us out. There’s at least 5000 active mod users, there’s gotta be some more good modelers among them.

    #245227

    wusong
    Member

    Hi guys,
    Your ideas sound great, It will be my honor to help with icons & descriptions

    Flenom,
    Very nice archons units, brings me great memories of AOW SM.

    Gloweye,
    I cannot wait to combine army of elf archer & dark elf sharpshooter….

    wusong

    #245228

    HousePet
    Member

    My highly biased opinion is for Archons as a Dwelling, because they should be Dedicated to Good, and with the way alignment works in AoW3, that is a bad characteristic for a full race.
    However, I’d still like Archon heroes.
    Also, if Archons are a full race, would that make Syrons a dwelling race? Cos the Shadow Realm is their home, not the Archons.

    Shadow Elves not existing previously is not a good reason not to make them. If we were to restrict ourselves to things that only existed previously, we can only make bad copies. We can, and should, do better than that.
    Also there is hint in the lore attached to the Dark Elf Shade unit, suggesting that Shades are an advanced evolutionary form of Dark Elves, so its not entirely made up.

    But anyway, what should I do to help?!

    #245231

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Your ideas sound great, It will be my honor to help with icons & descriptions

    Great! 🙂
    Maybe you could contact Gloweye to see if you can help with the Dark Elf Dwelling’s icons? The units do not have icons yet in the version I’ve seen.

    I did a quick poll on the Battlefield website and as I expected, almost each of the 4 respondents put Archons at the bottom of their list of preferred race to return. 2 or 3 put Shadow Elves at the top. Of course, it’s only a very small sample, but I feel Shadow Elves have a much higher “excitement factor”. And Gloweye already justified their existence lore-wise: they went with Meandor and did the mending. Conversely, the Dark Elves stayed in Athla and did not enter the Shadow Gates.

    Right now, we need to wait for vfxrob and Charlatan’s feedback on what they want to do in terms of models.
    + Gloweye is working on the SR RMG implementation.

    #245232

    wusong
    Member

    Gloweye,
    I am here for you: wu.song.pilgrim@gmail.com

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