Shadow Stalkers are REALLY powerful

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Home Forums Update v1.5 – Open Beta Balance Shadow Stalkers are REALLY powerful

This topic contains 13 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Gloweye 7 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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  • #166782

    alf978
    Member

    I don’t mind the buffs in general, but it really bothers me a bit that due to the ‘Elemental’ tag, these darn things are immune to most de-buffs (i.e. daze, skin of oil, throw net, etc.)

    If they would go back to being monsters, or simply get the Summon tag only, maybe as a magical origin (which the evolved SS, and LSS, won’t get anyway, no matter what) then, they would be a bit more easily dealt with. NO other racial/class T3 or even T4 (elementals excluded obviously) , boasts as many immunities as the SS, it seems a bit over the top. And with Dark Pact, they’re even more powerful.

    Can we just reign in the unit a bit. I’m okay with it receiving ‘frost aura’, which is already pretty strong on its own. Just make it susceptible to the some more ‘conventional’ counters… (i.e. the way they were before the Elemental tag was assigned to them)

    #166807

    Don’t know if I’d go so far as to remove the elemental trait but adding magical origin would be fine I think so they’re susceptible to Bane of the Unnatural, Banish and Arcane Binding.

    Also Summon Slayer could be changed to incorporate Magical Origins so Dread’s Wizard Hunters becomes a good SS counter. Personally I’d combine Elemental and Summon Slayer into one ability and add Magical Origins to that as well.

    #166843

    Zaskow
    Member

    Don’t know if I’d go so far as to remove the elemental trait but adding magical origin would be fine I think so they’re susceptible to Bane of the Unnatural, Banish and Arcane Binding.

    Actually SS already has Magical Origin trait, but this won’t help much, coz Mind control immunity makes Arcane Binding completely useless and 60% physical protection makes Banish almost useless (6-10% chance of success).
    Theo and Dread can handle with SS danger very easily, due to relatively low resistance of SS.
    Necro will have a lot of problems with this guys.
    Druid – depends from present summons, mature shock serpents can beat stalker, not very reliable still.
    Sorc – Node serpents and Apprentices en masses FTW.
    Warlord – mass spam required, which only warlord can handle.
    Rogue also will have a lot of problems with this guys.

    #166846

    alf978
    Member

    Don’t know if I’d go so far as to remove the elemental trait but adding magical origin would be fine I think so they’re susceptible to Bane of the Unnatural, Banish and Arcane Binding.

    Also Summon Slayer could be changed to incorporate Magical Origins so Dread’s Wizard Hunters becomes a good SS counter. Personally I’d combine Elemental and Summon Slayer into one ability and add Magical Origins to that as well.

    I’m glad you mention Summon Slayer (and Elemental slayer), I a bit disappointed that on the DN upgrade and for Monster Hunters, it just doesn’t trigger anymore since 1.4. I always felt that was an indirect nerf to the those units (I’ve mentioned that way back on the WL balancing thread, but it never seemed to have gained much traction.) Oh well..

    That’ll also help with Phantasm Warriors on the Knowledge Vaults and the Crystal Tree, those don’t get the summon trait point blank. (The fairy and Node Serpent at least get fey and the monster tag respectively).
    And I find it also interesting that the LSS and the SS are the ONLY Elementals that do not get the summon tag. It’s just another slight ‘passive’ buff/exception to the rule type thing, that’s a bit annoying when they’re your opponent. 🙂

    #166848

    Actually SS already has Magical Origin trait…

    Heh, I specifically checked if Stalkers had MO before posting and still missed it.

    Simply adding MO to some of the appropriate slayer skills would do then.

    And Banish shouldn’t be using the physical channel in the first place imo but that’s another story.

    #166909

    alf978
    Member

    Warlord – mass spam required, which only warlord can handle.<br>

    I’m not quite sure I agree with that whole hardily…
    Yes you can spam troops, but you only get one dedicated ranged unit, mounted archers, the rest is all melee. (ok, MH has light xbow), but the point still stands.

    Before, SS had inflict freezing on elite only, now recruits have frost aura fresh out of the gate.
    Can’t really drain the AP of a SS, the frost aura will still be active. And even if you manage it, each attack is still a roll of the dice. So tireless, martial arts is almost meaning less, blood bath not very impactful…

    So you have to spam priests, but forge priests, orc, human, draconian elders, all their ultimate abilities, inflict immolation, daze, inflict nox. vuln, & severely poisoned, etc. all are non-effective… Let’s not even talk about halflings…

    I just don’t quite follow why the deck has to be sooo strongly stacked in favor of the SS. It was already a great unit that screwed with almost everything the WL could throw at it. Now it’s even worse!

    I just don’t quite follow what was so broken that it needed fixing? (Frostlings maybe?)

    Dark Pact for the lategame, sure I get that somewhat, no biggie.
    But making the SS so dangerous before even gaining a single rank,… I’m just at a loss…

    #166951

    Gloweye
    Member

    Dark Pact is 4000 RP, which you should compare to the 3000 RP that is required for the class ultimates. If you research your GA while the Rogue does Dark Pact, you’ll have it up before the rogue does the Pact. Before that point, the Rogue is as weak as otherwise.

    #167010

    quo
    Member

    Did they buff Earth Elementals too or were those always incredibly powerful? I remember them being strong, but in my most recent game I lost a stack of 5 Exalted to 1 Earth Elemental. Even using Stone Skin on the Exalted they dropped like flies. Maybe that’s just a sign of how paper thin Exalted are though (no wonder I prefer Racial T3 to this unit).

    #167013

    Bob5
    Member

    Dark Pact is 4000 RP, which you should compare to the 3000 RP that is required for the class ultimates. If you research your GA while the Rogue does Dark Pact, you’ll have it up before the rogue does the Pact. Before that point, the Rogue is as weak as otherwise.

    Isn’t Dark Pact an Empire upgrade? I think it is, and that means that once you researched it, it’s active. Armageddon, Age of Magic, etc. all still need a couple of turns after researching them to cast and get running. In those turns the Rogue can bridge that 1000RP gap.

    I have to agree that Shadow Stalkers are already really powerful. Their combination of abilities leaves them with virtually no weaknesses. Tigran, Dwarf, Draconian, Human, and Elf priests can pump out decent damage against them, especially Draconians. Priests check them, but once the Shadow Stalker closes in and attacks the priest is gone, and getting out of engagement also causes you to take huge damage due to Backstab. I think the only thing that really counters the Shadow Stalker in its present state is the Spirit Elemental because of its 80% frost resistance combined with large spirit damage output, but unless you get the summon spell you won’t be having much of them running around. Spirit Elementals also have some weaknesses against Rogue, mainly suffering from a massive Blight weakness and Succubi stealing their Iron Hearts for free spirit immunity.

    #167043

    Zaskow
    Member

    Before, SS had inflict freezing on elite only, now recruits have frost aura fresh out of the gate.
    Can’t really drain the AP of a SS, the frost aura will still be active. And even if you manage it, each attack is still a roll of the dice. So tireless, martial arts is almost meaning less, blood bath not very impactful…

    Here is screens of SS stats and abilities from 1.5. Game was began new.

    Where did you see frost aura? Dark Pact gives only teleport for stalkers.

    #167048

    Maximo
    Member

    [Ignore this post.]

    #167886

    Fenraellis
    Member

    Where did you see frost aura? Dark Pact gives only teleport for stalkers.

    Scroll down, if I recall correctly. It’s hiding there near the bottom of the skill list.

    #167895

    Zaskow
    Member

    I scrolled to the down of list on my screen. No frost aura as you can see.

    #167923

    Gloweye
    Member

    I scrolled to the down of list on my screen. No frost aura as you can see.

    You don’t have Dark Pact researched yet. No Frost Aura without it.

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