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I like the Blood Sacrifice + Taunt on Bards. Taunt enemy units, then once they show up you mark them and backstab them to get the blood boost.
I’m not sure if Assassins really benefit from Life Stealing all that much, they’re fairly fragile in my experience, a bit too fragile to really take advantage of it, especially in late game when this comes out. It also only triggers once when using Assassin’s Strike. I think they might benefit more from Sabotage or Coup de Grace to enhance their offensive might instead of trying to increase their practically nonexisting survivability in ultra-late game. Killing Momentum would also work in that sense.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>llfoso wrote:</div>
Isn’t this basically killing spree?<br><br>
Killing spree wouldn’t be bad actually.IIRC Killing spree is the spell that gives units killing momentum. I think that might be a bit OP, but not sure.
Almost. Killing Momentum can only trigger once per round, killing spree used to work for as many enemies as you could kill.
I find it entirely inappropriate: Are Assassins vampires? Are they undead? Are they some sort of daemonic creatures? Do they all have some sort of magical weapons?
No, they’ve made a pact with an Evil God, gaining Unholy Powers in the process. That’s more than good enough to qualify for life stealing IMO.
I like the Blood Sacrifice + Taunt on Bards. Taunt enemy units, then once they show up you mark them and backstab them to get the blood boost.
I’m not sure if Assassins really benefit from Life Stealing all that much, they’re fairly fragile in my experience, a bit too fragile to really take advantage of it, especially in late game when this comes out. It also only triggers once when using Assassin’s Strike. I think they might benefit more from Sabotage or Coup de Grace to enhance their offensive might instead of trying to increase their practically nonexisting survivability in ultra-late game. Killing Momentum would also work in that sense.
They’re actually pretty strong for a T2. Check here for how strong you can build them ATM, and that’s not even counting the Dark Pact(which gives +1 damage to all channels, +1 Defense and the Life Steal/Pass Wall). They got a base HP of 50, which isn’t low by any measure. Orcs got Tireless, for more stealing of life. If you open with Assassin’s strike, a Rank 3 Assassin can take on practically every unranked T3, especially if they can land one of their inflicts. 3 out of 4(2 out of 2 on rank 3) reduce enemy morale, reducing damage on return strikes due to not-critting/fumbles.
Also, you should use them in groups – you can Pass Wall and use Assassin’s Strike to 1-shot some unranked archers/supports on the city walls, forming a line with them, standing on the dead archers. While your enemy must scramble defenders to deal with them, your other forces can take the city.
No, they’ve made a pact with an Evil God, gaining Unholy Powers in the process. That’s more than good enough to qualify for life stealing IMO.
Ok, I didn’t sufficiently consider the context; I retract. It’s good enough for me.
With Irregular training, Shrouded Altar, and the Racial T3 structure you can build Assassins with 3 medals now, so that gives them a nice pool of extra hp right off the bat, add in Dark Pact and you can build some brutal Assassins, especially when you have poison mastery up as well and urbane concealment.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>llfoso wrote:</div>
Isn’t this basically killing spree?<br><br>
Killing spree wouldn’t be bad actually.IIRC Killing spree is the spell that gives units killing momentum. I think that might be a bit OP, but not sure.
Another possibility for an ability with dark pact for assassins could be to take away the limit of assassin’s strike from once per battle to a cooldown of x turns.
I really like this idea, it uses an ability the Assassin already has, is dark, but it changes the frequency of how often it can be used.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Grog of Bolg wrote:</div>
Another possibility for an ability with dark pact for assassins could be to take away the limit of assassin’s strike from once per battle to a cooldown of x turns.I really like this idea, it uses an ability the Assassin already has, is dark, but it changes the frequency of how often it can be used.
Hmm… that’s actually a somewhat neat idea. Although it’s rare that even a 2-turn cool down ability gets used more than once a battle by a melee unit. Let alone a somewhat ‘softer’ type of melee unit.
Life Stealing is certainly more practical, though.
Of course, if that’s considered weak, then Life Drain is always an idea… just kidding. 😛
I actually prefer lifestealing. It makes tireless on the Orc Assassin much better, as they can really go toe to toe with top tier bio units now. You also probably don’t want revitalize to be able to unlock more assassins strikes.
“Coup-de-grace” too much?
It would synergize well with, that very dreaded 🙂 , frost aura and frozen from the SS??
The AI doesn’t build alot of Assassins as it is (at least that was my observation in the last few games that had Rogues in them).
Coup-de-grace sounds like it fits in there, but 2 abilities is enough if you ask me, and Life Steal isn’t that bad as you often think it is. You just get another reason to avoid being flanked.
“Coup-de-grace” too much?
It would synergize well with, that very dreaded
, frost aura and frozen from the SS??
True, Coup-de-grace probably has my vote for the best option for late game synergy.
The main downside to Coup-de-Grace is that aside from Inflict Freezing Cold from Elite Shadow Stalkers, and I suppose Throw Net from Human Scoundrels, the Rogue doesn’t actually have any other forms of Disables. Human/Frostling/Elven Supports at Elite rank, and the latter with Stunning Touch, aside.
That’s fairly low utility, but also adds quite a lot of power to a unit that is already quite solid.
Life Stealing is actually pretty nice indeed to help units survive better. It was also changed to 3-5 from the previous 2-4(pretty sure it was 2-4?).
Don’t forget about the spell, Moving Target, which adds +8 Def, which would really help them trade blows, with Life Stealing countering health loss in exchange.
Doesn’t Frost Aura freeze enemies, or is that only when it becomes elite, combining Inflict Freezing Cold with Frost Aura.
Frost Aura, like Fire Aura, Blinding Aura, Static Shield and Shield of Light, all apply damage and their innate status ability(as a check) every time the unit is struck.
Doesn’t Frost Aura freeze enemies, or is that only when it becomes elite, combining Inflict Freezing Cold with Frost Aura.
It freezes enemies. Inflict XXXX style things don’t affect auras like Fire Aura or Static Shield.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Gyor wrote:</div>
Doesn’t Frost Aura freeze enemies, or is that only when it becomes elite, combining Inflict Freezing Cold with Frost Aura.It freezes enemies. Inflict XXXX style things don’t affect auras like Fire Aura or Static Shield.
Just as a side note, Dragon Ancestry(from the Elder) bestows Fire Strike, which DOES affect the Aura’s, and can add a damage channel.
Cool Thanks.
Just as a side note, Dragon Ancestry(from the Elder) bestows Fire Strike, which DOES affect the Aura’s, and can add a damage channel.
Does that go for frozen flames as well?
Even if Frozen Flames don’t buff the Frost Aura directly, inflict chilling will buff the damage by creating vulneriblity to Frost Damage.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Gloweye wrote:</div>
Just as a side note, Dragon Ancestry(from the Elder) bestows Fire Strike, which DOES affect the Aura’s, and can add a damage channel.Does that go for frozen flames as well?
I’m not sure, and maybe should test – Frozen Flames will affect breath attacks though. maybe I’ll know this evening.
Just as a side note, Dragon Ancestry(from the Elder) bestows Fire Strike, which DOES affect the Aura’s, and can add a damage channel.
O_O
Oops. Is this what we really want? You could mix it with Static Shield, so it does fire damage and stuff…
I’m a bit bothered by frozen flames tbh; it feels like a superior version of dragon ancestry (yes dragon ancestry does one more point of damage and grants high morale, but frozen flames can be given to anyone, opens two damage channels, and inflicts frost weakness which makes up for that lost point of damage.).
I’m a bit bothered by frozen flames tbh; it feels like a superior version of dragon ancestry (yes dragon ancestry does one more point of damage and grants high morale, but frozen flames can be given to anyone, opens two damage channels, and inflicts frost weakness which makes up for that lost point of damage.).
I think that dragon ancestry should also work on dragons (thus wyverns), so that would help. Otherwise, I think frozen flames is both more powerful and more necessary to the Frostlings.
The thing is dragon ancestry is quite powerful as is and a big reason I use draconians. That’s what’s troubling. It’s stealing their thunder.
<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Gloweye wrote:</div>
Just as a side note, Dragon Ancestry(from the Elder) bestows Fire Strike, which DOES affect the Aura’s, and can add a damage channel.O_O
Oops. Is this what we really want? You could mix it with Static Shield, so it does fire damage and stuff…
Dunno what the intention is, but TBH I like it. It’s like Fire permeating every part of the unit, flowing around you….
I don’t know if Fire Halo works with Fire Strike to, but I’d like it to…Also, as far as I’m concerned, you could make equivalent skills with that damage treatment to every element.
Question regarding Shadow Stalkers, is there a reason why they can’t have the summoned trait? I don’t really feel that they are overpowered or anything, but they’re just boring to fight with/against, as there isn’t really any way to counter them (except things that counter everything else). You just pound away with fire or shock damage until they die, which works because of their relatively low hp for their cost.
Thematically, I can’t imagine any tactics learned by wizard hunters that would work against other elementals but not shadowstalkers, so it’s annoying that at least wizard hunters doesn’t work against them either. Shadow Stalkers are actually summoned from another plane after all, through the planar gate. That it’s done with gold rather than mana shouldn’t change things, should it?
Summoned is reserved for units that come from summoning spells, we usually give the Magical Origin ability to things like that, which apparently wizard hunters doesn’t affect.
Shadow Stalkers are in a bit of a weird place, to be quite honest, it really wasn’t that long ago that everyone was complaining they were too weak, because they could be killed by Drac Elders and Forge Priests, all we changed was +1 resistance, and that seems to have been enough to sort of kill the only real weakness they had.
Maybe we should look into giving a few units Elemental Slayer, or grant it has a hero upgrade to some classes. I can’t make a stack wide hero upgrade (I can’t add new text), but I could give it as a personal upgrade.
I think Elemental Slayer is a good idea, add it to Monster Hunters, and to heroes as an upgrade. Maybe to Apprentices when they get summon slayer. Perhaps to Cruasaders. and Hunters or Shamans as well. I’d also. hange the damage of Banish to Shock damage or Spirit instead of Physical.
Shadow Stalkers are actually summoned from another plane after all, through the planar gate
Not really – how would Evolving Scoundrels work if this is true? They are corruptions of the natural form of normal humans/whichever race you are.
Maybe we should look into giving a few units Elemental Slayer, or grant it has a hero upgrade to some classes. I can’t make a stack wide hero upgrade (I can’t add new text), but I could give it as a personal upgrade.
Seems like a good idea to me.
I think Elemental Slayer is a good idea, add it to Monster Hunters, and to heroes as an upgrade. Maybe to Apprentices when they get summon slayer.
Agree with the quoted part. As for the Banish, would it be possible to proc it against resistance rather than a specific element?
Shadow Stalkers are in a bit of a weird place, to be quite honest, it really wasn’t that long ago that everyone was complaining they were too weak, because they could be killed by Drac Elders and Forge Priests, all we changed was +1 resistance, and that seems to have been enough to sort of kill the only real weakness they had.
On the same patch their type was changed to elemental and elementals gained a ton of new immunities. Maybe it would be ok to just put their resistance back at 10.
Not really – how would Evolving Scoundrels work if this is true? They are corruptions of the natural form of normal humans/whichever race you are.
Some sort of possession by an extra planar entity? Or a voluntary pact with said extra planar entity to merge into one. I mean, what does planar gate mean if it’s not a gate to another plane?
Shadow stalkers just have too many immunities/no weaknesses to be fun, either to use or to play against. To use because you can’t include more powerful or synergistic abilities for fear of being OP, and to play against because there’s no real strategy or preparation involved. Either you have the right elemental damage types to kill them or you don’t.
Regarding Elemental Slayer, the thing is I think Shadow Stalkers and their lesser versions are the only elementals that are not summoned. So having a specific elemental slayer seems odd, and there would be interactions that need to be accounted for with all the other elementals that are also summons for any unit that has both slayers. It seems a lot simpler to just give shadow stalkers summon.
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