Spontaneous Mutation is way too powerful

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Spontaneous Mutation is way too powerful

This topic contains 11 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Hide 7 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #125984

    Epaminondas
    Member

    It affects ALL friendly organic units and give them essentially 2 positive buffs – for a mere 25 mana? It has to be the most outrageous combat spell in the game on efficiency/cost basis. And unlike other powerful battlefield spells, it cannot be disjuncted, so you must individually dispell enemy units that benefit from the spell. Really, it ought to cost at least 50 mana and probably a whole lot more. In practice, the buffs frequently turn melees into ranged units and give the more fragile ranged/supporting units melee-like durability.

    Am I the only one that is astonished by how over-powered this spell is?

    #125987

    Harleyquin14
    Member

    I survived an AI casting this on its invasion force once. It was not a pleasant experience but the randomness of the benefits means it’s not as game-breaking as I thought it would be.

    #125988

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I survived an AI casting this on its invasion force once. It was not a pleasant experience but the randomness of the benefits means it’s not as game-breaking as I thought it would be.

    I didn’t survive. As I said, it seemed like all the ranged units got buffs to durability, and all the melee units got ranged abilities. It was ugly.

    But such a powerful spell should not be non-disjunctionable and cost only 25 mana.

    The next time I see an AI with Wild Magic Mastery, I am going for him right away or – if that is not possible due to distance – allying with him.

    #125989

    Usana
    Member

    I haven’t really had a chance to use it much, but I have noticed when using it that I often had less than optimal buffs. I really can not stand losing movement points. Half my army lost movement points on one occasion. As a melee army facing a ranged army, that hurt.

    That said the buffs can be wickedly powerful. The reliability is an issue though. Also it only works on living units, right? Not exactly much of a limitation, but it is there.

    Err. . . anyways if it is currently too powerful, rather than an increased cost or the ilk I would rather see more interesting negatives mixed in.

    #125991

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I haven’t really had a chance to use it much, but I have noticed when using it that I often had less than optimal buffs. I really can not stand losing movement points. Half my army lost movement points on one occasion. As a melee army facing a ranged army, that hurt.

    That said the buffs can be wickedly powerful. The reliability is an issue though. Also it only works on living units, right? Not exactly much of a limitation, but it is there.

    Err. . . anyways if it is currently too powerful, rather than an increased cost or the ilk I would rather see more interesting negatives mixed in.

    If there are too many negative effects, then people won’t use the spell and think it a waste of a high research spell slot.

    It has to be either a) massively increased in mana cost or b) slightly increased in mana cost and disjunctable.

    #125993

    Usana
    Member

    That is part of the reason I said ‘interesting’ negatives. In other words take the abilities that appear too powerful right now and do something like the – movements of that one defense buff I always get. So your unit is now a ranged unit? Remove its ability to counter attack. This is actually a blessing in a way since you can’t be AP drained easily. But it also means you have to back off and take an attack of opportunity to attack again(or use other units to remove the engagement penalty). Or maybe hit the movement points again. Another option would be for the abilities to grant a weakness of kind. Maybe the ranged units become durable, but now suffer a strong shock weakness or the ilk. Maybe you get a strong damage boost but have a chance to be stunned after attacking like machines and overload.

    The trouble is finding that sweet spot where the spells reliability is solid enough that you’ll use it, but not reliable enough to be reliably overpowered.

    #125997

    Hide
    Member

    I don’t think it’s that overpowered. And the reason for that is its randomness. You can’t actually base a plan on it and in addition to that you will get some negative effects, too. I don’t want my melee-units to have ranged attacks. I usually have them in my army for exactly their purpose and a ranged attack doesn’t help me at all. ( just to name one example of useless buffs ). I don’t even use it in its recent state, nerfing it would kill it completely.

    #126000

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I don’t want my melee-units to have ranged attacks. I usually have them in my army for exactly their purpose and a ranged attack doesn’t help me at all. ( just to name one example of useless buffs ). I don’t even use it in its recent state, nerfing it would kill it completely.

    The ranged attack is on top of the melee attack. So you are doing damage when you approach the enemy – that is, before you get in melee range.

    #126008

    jakjak
    Member

    I really like this spell and all of the spells in wild magic actually but I agree they all are a little cheaper than they should be

    #126017

    Garresh
    Member

    It’s not overpowered. For one thing, it only affects living creatures. No elementals or machines. For another, the effects are random. Can work out well, or shoot you in the foot.

    #126020

    Harleyquin14
    Member

    A perfect storm of mutations does make the spell seem overpowered, but don’t all of the mutated units suffer a severe hit to morale (like -500) regardless of the mutations they receive?

    When I survived my experience, some of the flying troops had ranged and melee buffs but were badly hit by a morale crash. The fumbles took some of the edge off their mutations.

    #126045

    Hide
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Hide wrote:</div>
    I don’t want my melee-units to have ranged attacks. I usually have them in my army for exactly their purpose and a ranged attack doesn’t help me at all. ( just to name one example of useless buffs ). I don’t even use it in its recent state, nerfing it would kill it completely.

    The ranged attack is on top of the melee attack. So you are doing damage when you approach the enemy – that is, before you get in melee range.

    I know but I don’t want it. The damage done by that attack on range is really minimal. And if you are in range and attack with the ranged attack you won’t be in defensive stand and take additional damage next round whereas the enemy units may even be in devensive stand when you are going for the ranged attack ( if they are melee units, too ) thus reducing the damage done by your new ranged attack even more.

    Basicly I say the cost of the spell is fair because you don’t always get buffs that really strenghen a unit in the certain role you’re having it for.

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