Suggested changes

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Suggested changes

This topic contains 46 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by  Helgrind 7 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #193335

    Low_K
    Member

    Most of this has been asked before, yet never implemented. Now that the final DLC is out (judging from the closing of the beta forums), maybe Triumph can implement them now;

    – More Empire colours. The amount of colours is not good. You only have a few when choosing your shield colour, yet, you have many when choosing your shield-icon colour. Can this be changed? That you have 16ish colours for shields, and only 8 for the icon. Or make it 16-16. Just make more shield colours, please.

    – Changing the razing mechanic. Now you can using a single scout unit raze/pillage/migrate an entire town. Can this be changed to needing a set amount of troops? Like 3 units to be able to do such things? I cannot remember which game had thgis mechanic, I believe it was Heroes of Might and Magic (correct me if I am wrong), but it would be a tad more realistic and more fun.

    – A mini-map for the tactical battles. This mechanic was in Shadow Magic and it worked excellent. With the new locations (and accompanying colour palettes) it can be sometimes difficult to see which units are yours and which are the enemy’s. Especially when you play on a icy map with black shield colour vs indies, which are grey.

    – More customisation options. More hair-styles, faces and clothes are primary wishes. The amount of decorations are sufficent, but only 3-4 clothing/head options is way too few.

    I hope these changes will be implemented soon. Thanks in advance 🙂

    Kind regards,

    Low

    #193343

    Gloweye
    Member

    - Changing the razing mechanic.

    Like 3 units to be able to do such things? I cannot remember which game had thgis mechanic, I believe it was Heroes of Might and Magic (correct me if I am wrong), but it would be a tad more realistic and more fun.

    earlier installments had it, of AoW 1 I’m sure. And I agree.

    And you forgot the one option I almost knew for sure you’d say, though it might be a bigger thing than those options – Mod Tools, which I’d like to. chances of triumph implementing my ideas for the Dark Elf Dwelling aren’t that big, so I’ll have to make it myself…

    #193348

    vyolin
    Member

    – Changing the razing mechanic. Now you can using a single scout unit raze/pillage/migrate an entire town. Can this be changed to needing a set amount of troops? Like 3 units to be able to do such things? I cannot remember which game had thgis mechanic, I believe it was Heroes of Might and Magic (correct me if I am wrong), but it would be a tad more realistic and more fun.

    I’d much prefer a soft limit: Set a base line amount time, say 5 rounds, for Watchtoers, Forts and Cities alike. Then add 1 for upgraded forts, and 1 for every city level including outpost.
    Then detract 1 round again for every unit in the stack, and an additional 1 round for each siege unit.

    You will still be able to raze just about everything with a single scout. But a watchtower will set you back 5 rounds, and a metropolis will take you a whopping 10 rounds.

    Should be able to address the issue much more organically than a hard limit regarding stack size.
    Because, how would you treat the case of 2 siege engines (rams, trebuchets, et al.) not being able to raze a city in your scenario? Appears a tad counterintuitive to me, I have to admit.

    #193351

    Low_K
    Member

    And you forgot the one option I almost knew for sure you’d say, though it might be a bigger thing than those options – Mod Tools, which I’d like to. chances of triumph implementing my ideas for the Dark Elf Dwelling aren’t that big, so I’ll have to make it myself…

    Aye, Mod tools should be implemented asap, but as you said, it is probably a huge thing to do so I thought I’d suggest some smaller changes first 🙂

    And I would love to see the return of the Dark Elves, you have my support!

    Kind regards,

    Low

    #193392

    Epaminondas
    Member

    – Changing the razing mechanic. Now you can using a single scout unit raze/pillage/migrate an entire town. Can this be changed to needing a set amount of troops? Like 3 units to be able to do such things? I cannot remember which game had thgis mechanic, I believe it was Heroes of Might and Magic (correct me if I am wrong), but it would be a tad more realistic and more fun.

    I totally agree.

    Also, I want two additional things in this respect:

    1. Everything takes at least two turns to Raze – including towers and forts.

    2. Cities & Dwellings can be completely Razed. A lot of times the RMG or AI will place cities in stupid places, and because of the minimum distance I cannot establish a city in a better location. This needs to be fixed.

    Aye, Mod tools should be implemented asap, but as you said, it is probably a huge thing to do so I thought I’d suggest some smaller changes first :)

    Is it really so hard to set it up? I mean, AoW 3 is the most polished product in the genre; and virtually all competitors – even unfinished, buggy products that are essentially un-playable – offer them.

    So I think it’s more an intentional game design than resource shortage. The devs don’t want to offer mod tools – most likely because it will, in their opinion, fragment the budding MP community.

    #193416

    - Changing the razing mechanic. Now you can using a single scout unit raze/pillage/migrate an entire town. Can this be changed to needing a set amount of troops? Like 3 units to be able to do such things? I cannot remember which game had thgis mechanic, I believe it was Heroes of Might and Magic (correct me if I am wrong), but it would be a tad more realistic and more fun.

    did you Lords ever think about how evil the raze and loot mechanic now is, troops enter city, “ok weak peons you are now serving the magnificent Overlord Darkslash, your first task to prove yourself to our benevolent leader is to destroy your own homes, collect as much valuables as you can and deliver it to the treasury of your master. after that disperses and find another place to life.”. of course the troops leave the city afterwards because you doesn’t need to checkup on peasants working for an overlord.

    the most evil part of it is that the people also complete this task you give them, without any remorse nor resistance.

    #193433

    Meeky
    Member

    – Changing the razing mechanic. Now you can using a single scout unit raze/pillage/migrate an entire town. Can this be changed to needing a set amount of troops? Like 3 units to be able to do such things? I cannot remember which game had thgis mechanic, I believe it was Heroes of Might and Magic (correct me if I am wrong), but it would be a tad more realistic and more fun.

    It was cooler when you needed a small army to do it based on the size of the city, yeah. I figure a tiny hamlet would only require 1-2 units, but a metropolis may require a full stack with at least a T3 or a few T2s in it.

    Of course, you’d probably also require that army for Migration and Absorbing as well. I doubt there’d be TOO much complaint from the populace for releasing them as a vassal.

    – More Empire colours. The amount of colours is not good. You only have a few when choosing your shield colour, yet, you have many when choosing your shield-icon colour. Can this be changed? That you have 16ish colours for shields, and only 8 for the icon. Or make it 16-16. Just make more shield colours, please.

    Huge, huge pet peeve of mine right now. I like a lot of the accent color choices while I feel severely limited by the choices we have for the main colors.

    For instance, I LOVE the variety of greens available to you under the accents, but there’s only one green available to you as your main color and that green is a really annoying shade to work with when what you really want is something dark and leafy.

    – A mini-map for the tactical battles…

    Not really necessary. What I DO think is necessary – and correct me if this already exists – is a button to highlight all allied, enemy, and user controlled units on the map. Namely:

    Enemies = Red
    Allies = Blue
    Your troops = Green
    Obstacles = Yellow

    It would help with seeing what all is on the map and you wouldn’t need a tactical mini-map to do it.

    #193444

    Teehon
    Member

    It was cooler when you needed a small army to do it based on the size of the city, yeah. I figure a tiny hamlet would only require 1-2 units, but a metropolis may require a full stack with at least a T3 or a few T2s in it.

    Of course, you’d probably also require that army for Migration and Absorbing as well. I doubt there’d be TOO much complaint from the populace for releasing them as a vassal.

    AoW2sm had such a mechanic. If you try to raze a city with three axemen you’d get a message “you don’t have enough power”.
    Dunno why they decided not to implement it in AoW3…

    #193448

    Meeky
    Member

    AoW2sm had such a mechanic. If you try to raze a city with three axemen you’d get a message “you don’t have enough power”.
    Dunno why they decided not to implement it in AoW3…

    So did Age of Wonders 1 – sort of. Essentially, it would tick off the race you were being rude to, and they’d possibly rebel against you and attack the army stationed there if it wasn’t big enough.

    #193452

    Gloweye
    Member

    (regarding Mod Tools, red)

    Is it really so hard to set it up? I mean, AoW 3 is the most polished product in the genre; and virtually all competitors – even unfinished, buggy products that are essentially un-playable – offer them.

    So I think it’s more an intentional game design than resource shortage. The devs don’t want to offer mod tools – most likely because it will, in their opinion, fragment the budding MP community.

    Well, they’ve said they want to, but it’s more about the support they’re going to offer for them. They can of course not officially support them, but have a look at the map editor and you’ll see that it’s still costing them time daily. And if they just release whatever it is they use themselves, people are not going to be able to work with it.

    (My personal view is that, well, people mod at their own risk, so either they should be smart enough to back-up everything or keep their tears to themselves, but hey. I’m not the one getting the flak if it goes wrong.)

    did you Lords ever think about how evil the raze and loot mechanic now is, troops enter city, “ok weak peons you are now serving the magnificent Overlord Darkslash, your first task to prove yourself to our benevolent leader is to destroy your own homes, collect as much valuables as you can and deliver it to the treasury of your master. after that disperses and find another place to life.”. of course the troops leave the city afterwards because you doesn’t need to checkup on peasants working for an overlord.

    What kind of Evil Overlord are you? Are you seriously trusting PEASANTS to be even smart enough to do as you tell them to?

    Amazingly enough, they’re just stupid enough to. Which should not be, IMO.

    When I raze a city, I want the inhabitants to rise up against me. Real combat experience is a hard-earned commodity these days, and my troops need it.

    Or not to rise up, if my forces have a sufficient size to scare them off.

    Of course, you’d probably also require that army for Migration and Absorbing as well. I doubt there’d be TOO much complaint from the populace for releasing them as a vassal.

    Just for Migration/razing/plundering IMO. Absorbing doesn’t require them to leave their homes, just replaced the local authorities with your own people. Doesn’t interfere with the daily life. Same with Vassal – no troops required.

    #193454

    Helgrind
    Member

    Agree with everbody here concering the razing issue. I raised the question one year ago.

    http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/razing-structures/

    😉

    #193455

    So did Age of Wonders 1 – sort of. Essentially, it would tick off the race you were being rude to, and they’d possibly rebel against you and attack the army stationed there if it wasn’t big enough.

    And if you razed sites like Power Nodes and Builders’ Halls you’d get attacked by the people who worked there, or by magical beings. I seem to recall even having to face Syrons on blowing up teleporters and such! This made it very risky to mess with these things.

    (And for those who don’t remember: AoW1 Syrons were a tier 4 unit that was almost completely immune to magic.)

    #193461

    What kind of Evil Overlord are you? Are you seriously trusting PEASANTS to be even smart enough to do as you tell them to?
    Amazingly enough, they’re just stupid enough to. Which should not be, IMO.
    When I raze a city, I want the inhabitants to rise up against me. Real combat experience is a hard-earned commodity these days, and my troops need it.
    Or not to rise up, if my forces have a sufficient size to scare them off.

    The kind to trust people until they prove themselves to be fools and commit treason arrogant enough to think they are afraid by my sheer presence on the map, The kind that has trust in his army’s to checkup if the cities are really gone while marching back home.

    Also yes they should stand up and fight back if your soldiers leave the vicinity of the town, after razing or looting there should also be an group of “avengers” whom rushing straight to the closed person or object that even remotely look as an part off your realm to extract sweet vengeance. (like AOW2). the more conflict the better.

    #193473

    SaintTodd
    Member

    +1 on all points.

    #193480

    Ravenholme
    Member

    +1 on all points except the tactical minimap, which would be nice, but I’m putting way down the list of priorities.

    #193483

    llfoso
    Member

    Does anyone else think the money from plundering is too low? It never seems like enough loot to bother babysitting the town another two turns to make sure it isn’t recaptured.

    #193520

    Jyrgunkarrd
    Member

    – Changing the razing mechanic. Now you can using a single scout unit raze/pillage/migrate an entire town. Can this be changed to needing a set amount of troops? Like 3 units to be able to do such things? I cannot remember which game had thgis mechanic, I believe it was Heroes of Might and Magic (correct me if I am wrong), but it would be a tad more realistic and more fun.

    …And how do you know it would be more fun? Have you actually playtested the idea?

    It doesn’t sound more fun to me – it sounds like something that would change very little, and (albeit only slightly) further discourage an already bad option. It also shuts down a lot of aggressive harassment strategies that rely on things like Hasty Plunder (if I can’t threaten you with the possibility of a Plunder / Raze raid, you never need to worry about keeping garrisons because you can just swoop back into a captured city and auto-combat me out).

    The entire game would be about turtling around and nothing but city sieges. Maybe that sounds super fun and exciting to you, but it sure doesn’t to me.

    EDIT: And ‘realistic’ is a non-starter. You’re commanding armies of dragons and zombies and can entirely conquer & occupy a city with a single unit. It’s an abstraction, just like Razing / Plundering.

    And no, occupying a city is not some trivial task that just involves swapping out the old government. Ask the Americans how easy it’s been to occupy Baghdad.

    #193531

    Dr_K
    Member

    Does anyone else think the money from plundering is too low? It never seems like enough loot to bother babysitting the town another two turns to make sure it isn’t recaptured.

    I find it much more useful once you are capturing relatively well developed cities.

    …And how do you know it would be more fun? Have you actually playtested the idea?

    Because it was a feature in previous AoW games, and numerous players who enjoyed having that mechanic in the game were unhappy to find out that it was removed from the current installment in the series. So, yes it sort of has been play tested.

    #193537

    Deadlywoman
    Member

    Still there is no option of change of the leader of group. And why removed the random loot generator from vaults?!

    #193542

    SaintTodd
    Member

    – Changing the razing mechanic. Now you can using a single scout unit raze/pillage/migrate an entire town. Can this be changed to needing a set amount of troops? Like 3 units to be able to do such things? I cannot remember which game had thgis mechanic, I believe it was Heroes of Might and Magic (correct me if I am wrong), but it would be a tad more realistic and more fun.

    …And how do you know it would be more fun? Have you actually playtested the idea?

    It doesn’t sound more fun to me – it sounds like something that would change very little, and (albeit only slightly) further discourage an already bad option. It also shuts down a lot of aggressive harassment strategies that rely on things like Hasty Plunder (if I can’t threaten you with the possibility of a Plunder / Raze raid, you never need to worry about keeping garrisons because you can just swoop back into a captured city and auto-combat me out).

    The entire game would be about turtling around and nothing but city sieges. Maybe that sounds super fun and exciting to you, but it sure doesn’t to me.

    EDIT: And ‘realistic’ is a non-starter. You’re commanding armies of dragons and zombies and can entirely conquer & occupy a city with a single unit. It’s an abstraction, just like Razing / Plundering.

    And no, occupying a city is not some trivial task that just involves swapping out the old government. Ask the Americans how easy it’s been to occupy Baghdad.

    Wow, you said a lot of stuff, and I can’t find anything I agree with.
    -1 on all points. Is that a thing, -1?

    #193551

    Low_K
    Member

    …And how do you know it would be more fun? Have you actually playtested the idea?

    Yes, in the previous installments.

    It doesn’t sound more fun to me – it sounds like something that would change very little, and (albeit only slightly) further discourage an already bad option. It also shuts down a lot of aggressive harassment strategies that rely on things like Hasty Plunder (if I can’t threaten you with the possibility of a Plunder / Raze raid, you never need to worry about keeping garrisons because you can just swoop back into a captured city and auto-combat me out).

    The entire game would be about turtling around and nothing but city sieges. Maybe that sounds super fun and exciting to you, but it sure doesn’t to me.

    Well we can differ from opinion. If you don’t like it, don’t. Simple as that.

    EDIT: And ‘realistic’ is a non-starter. You’re commanding armies of dragons and zombies and can entirely conquer & occupy a city with a single unit. It’s an abstraction, just like Razing / Plundering.

    And no, occupying a city is not some trivial task that just involves swapping out the old government. Ask the Americans how easy it’s been to occupy Baghdad.

    Ofcourse the game isn’t realistic, you could make it a bit more realistic though. Furthermore, you now try to compare this (unrealistic game) to a realistic event. Yep. ‘Nuff said.

    And also regarding Baghdad; Did the Americans, or even the Iraqi’s really control their country/city? Nope, they didn’t and don’t. And besides, they didn’t invade Baghdad with a single unit. There were troops needed BEFORE they could change government, and, again, not only one unit.

    Kind regards,

    Low

    #193552

    Meeky
    Member

    It also shuts down a lot of aggressive harassment strategies that rely on things like Hasty Plunder (if I can’t threaten you with the possibility of a Plunder / Raze raid, you never need to worry about keeping garrisons because you can just swoop back into a captured city and auto-combat me out).

    This… is a very legitimate concern. I think you’re exaggerating, but it’s still a very valid concern.

    It would not “shut down” those strategies, note – but it would slightly hinder them. You just might have to start leaving a couple units behind whenever you’re razing a town, or sit there for a turn instead of immediately running off.

    #193614

    Gloweye
    Member

    Still there is no option of change of the leader of group.

    This has been changed – leader always leads, but after that it’s the hero with the most leadership abilities.

    #193616

    Meeky
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Deadlywoman wrote:</div>
    Still there is no option of change of the leader of group.

    This has been changed – leader always leads, but after that it’s the hero with the most leadership abilities.

    …Seriously?

    I am now the happiest clam there is. That is incredibly nice.

    #193621

    Deadlywoman
    Member

    That’s just the point that it not the option of management of group, and for you solves game and isn’t always true. That that at the hero appears such ability as “leader” only designates him, but the sense especially in it isn’t present – he so is the first in the list of group =)
    And all the reason of change of mechanics of generation of awards in vaults isn’t absolutely clear.

    #193729

    Gloweye
    Member

    That’s just the point that it not the option of management of group, and for you solves game and isn’t always true. That that at the hero appears such ability as “leader” only designates him, but the sense especially in it isn’t present – he so is the first in the list of group =)

    I’m having a bit trouble understanding you here. Are you talking about that the current way is somehow bad because it still works automatically?

    The reason we didn’t get a button is because they don’t want to flood the interface with a number of buttons that will confuse all newcomers – people new to AoW are confused enough as it is.

    As for the rewards, are you that opposed because it prevents you from save-scumming until you get the right reward?

    #193753

    NuMetal
    Member

    +1 for Empire Colors

    +1 for no instantaneous razing of forts and watchtowers

    +1 for minimap in TC

    The cosmetics would be nice but really we already got so much there that I don’t see more new cosmetics as important.

    The minimap in TC idea sounds amazing though. I have never thought about it and never missed it, but it could be one of those things that you couldn’t go without anymore once you’ve had it.

    #193755

    As for the rewards, are you that opposed because it prevents you from save-scumming until you get the right reward?

    does Lord Deadlywoman need an little torture…. I mean nurture about fortitude and sardines?

    #193812

    Deadlywoman
    Member

    Deadlywoman wrote:<
    That’s just the point that it not the option of management of group, and for you solves game and isn’t always true. That that at the hero appears such ability as “leader” only designates him, but the sense especially in it isn’t present – he so is the first in the list of group =)

    I’m having a bit trouble understanding you here. Are you talking about that the current way is somehow bad because it still works automatically?
    The reason we didn’t get a button is because they don’t want to flood the interface with a number of buttons that will confuse all newcomers – people new to AoW are confused enough as it is.

    Difficulties arise at merger of two groups with different heroes who have various leadership abilities. And not always automatic equipment and mechanics of game does it in a suitable way for specific conditions.

    As for the rewards, are you that opposed because it prevents you from save-scumming until you get the right reward?

    Unless it somehow disturbs players in a multiplayer?! In this mode of game, it seems, don’t apply load-spam. Therefore nobody will receive any advantages. Here in the single mode another matter but to whom it so strongly prevented?

    #193835

    I do understand what our friend Lord deadlywoman is trying to say.

    That’s just the point that it not the option of management of group, and for you solves game and isn’t always true. That that at the hero appears such ability as “leader” only designates him, but the sense especially in it isn’t present – he so is the first in the list of group =)

    let me translate this to, I want to select which hero is leading the party, not let the game select it for me. so that I self can decide which ability is leading on this moment (so my warlord with attack and defense buffs or my dreadnaught who buffs the fire resistance).

    is this an good translation of what you are trying to say Lord Deadlywoman?

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