Suggestion: RPG-ish elements

We’ve moved over to the paradox forums. Please come visit us there to discuss:
You can still read the collective wisdom - and lolz - of the community here, but posting is no longer possible.

Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Suggestion: RPG-ish elements

Tagged: 

This topic contains 30 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by  NathanDrake 4 years, 2 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 31 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #161554

    Athei
    Member

    I have been thinking about some more RPG-ish elements that can be imported to the game without much work (hopefully) so here is a list of them bellow:

    1) Battle unit speech bubbles
    2) Class based random quests
    3) Leader starting heirloom
    4) Adept specialization (spells) to heroes

    And now more detailed explanation:

    1) Battle unit speech bubbles – I always liked when in games characters “speak” to each other, after something happened to those character or possibly to the enemy one of them is fighting. Things like taunting, curses after a miss, happy shouts after critical hit or kill, calls for aid, words of thanks to the supporting unit etc. And as cool as it may be to have audio sample for every unit, I think it’s way too expensive and time consuming. So I think the best thing in this case is implementation of speech bubbles to the battle map, not only cheaper and faster but it allows you to be more creative with unit responses, and to have much grater number of them per unit than you would if the speech was in audio format…

    idea1

    The purpose of the images is to better explain my idea, I don’t expect it to look like that, especially since I know that “select your leader” menu will be changed in some way…

    2) Class based random quests – I’m missing the shrine quests like in the previous game, and I would like to have them back one way or another 🙂 But since we already have a shrine it would probably have to be something else, and I suggest some class-based assembly (senate, druid circle, thieves guild, council, etc. ) that would give as unique-as-possible quests.
    Some quest ideas (along with the kill or conquer one we already have…)
    – defend certain area for x number of turns
    – build/raze buildings
    – acquire x number of gold/mana
    – propose peace/ declare war
    – build x number of units
    – garrison a certain city with x number of units
    and so on…
    Successfully finishing a quest would give you item/units/spells/resources (not cities we already have that) and empire happiness depending from that quest difficulty. Failing to complete a quest should lower your empire happiness, and increase “rebellion-meter” that may lead to deserting of your troops (beside the deserting caused by empire happiness), and if the rebellion-meter is too high uprising.

    3) Leader starting heirloom – I always thought it’s… silly how at the begging of every game our leaders don’t have anything unique (talking about items!) that separates them from the other leaders, and even heroes. So I think that it would be great if we can pick (or even better: create!) our own starting gear, along with the default ranged weapon for our custom leaders (default leader should have their own weapons that are slightly better, and not possible to change). So what I’m suggestion is to have a “heirloom creation” tab when you create/edit custom leaders, which is basically a lite version of the item forge (it would be too much if you start a new game with dominate ability or something…) and to have the item’s icon somewhere easy to see while you are picking your leader.

    idea2

    4) Adept specialization (spells) to heroes – IMHO heroes are lacking the uniqueness they had in the previous game (since they no longer have the description/history, but I already ranted about that…). Right now when you recruit a new hero you notice two things first: it’s class (more important), and then it’s race (less important but still important), and that’s it. Than you notice it’s gender, and maybe name – absolutely unimportant gamewise, but should bring some life to the characters and thus more RPG-ness to the game, right? Wrong. Elf rogue hero is always elf rogue hero, and since it is the same as every other elf rogue hero, and lacks the background I can read and associate myself with it, I don’t care about it…
    End of rant, now a solution: I think the heroes should have the same access to specialization as the leaders do, with the difference being the heroes should only have one specialization thus limiting it to adept spells only, and since the heroes can only cast spells in combat limiting it to combat spells. Which is not that much, so it can’t possibly be OP, but will make you remember them, because it is much easier to remember a hero who is not only draconian dreadnought, but a draconian dreadnought who can cast bless and holy cure!

    That’s it from me for now, this is already more text than I initially intended…
    Hope you like my ideas, share you opinion, but please, no hate 🙂

    #161557

    HATE!!!!!

    Joke.

    Good ideas, except the combat speech imho, as that would probably clutter things up too much, and get pretty boring after the first 2 or 3 times.

    #161558

    Tibbles
    Member

    Love idea #3, but like BBB said, the battle speech would probably annoy me very quickly.

    #161559

    Sloul
    Member

    I really like 3) and 4)
    I had actually a suggestion very similar to 3) in the past.
    Both of them are awesome 😉

    #161563

    Athei
    Member

    Thank you guys, glad you liked it 😀

    Just one problem though, I can’t see my images, dunno why, so I’ll just attach them again and see what happens…

    Edit: Exceeded file size… To hell with it, here’s a dropbox link, tell me if it’s not working or something…

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/xl06at1cz85tkr9/idea1.jpg?dl=0
    and
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/rtlisfz15lkp3or/idea3.jpg?dl=0

    #161583

    Charlatan
    Member

    Curious stuff !

    Don’t listen to the people against unit banters – these only want silent obedient minions 😛

    #161585

    If unit banter didn’t interfere with gameplay or block UI information it would be fine.

    Darkest Dungeon has fantastic banter and voiced narration that adds to the flavor, but right now (game is still in early access) it can get annoying because it CONSTANTLY. STOPS. GAMEPLAY. It also can cover up important parts of the UI in certain menus (the hiring carriage especially).

    It getting boring or old wouldn’t be much of an issue since it could easily be toggled off as an option without affecting gameplay, and it would be easy to add more dialogue lines, especially once mod tools are available and players can create and share them.

    #161655

    Joni
    Member

    There is a fair chance you are my evil (or rather, good) twin as our preferences are very much alike. Which is why I am in love with all of your suggestions.

    1) Very cool and could potentially add a ton of immersion to the game. Probably not very realistic to get implemented anytime soon as it adds something quite new to the game, but nevertheless this could at least be a wink to consider for Triumph once they are adding the long-awaited modding tools.

    2) Yes please. Quests are a very underused feature right now. They are okayish, but have so much more potential to be less one-dimensional, e.g. in the way you outlined.

    3) Extremely cool idea even if these items are quite mundane. Anything that adds to futher customization without implementing new game systems sounds like smart game design. I really hope this gets added at some point.

    4) Apart from the currently very poorly implemented underground, the rather bland heroes are one of my few remaining gripes with AoW3. Anything that makes them more soulful and individual helps, and again, you’d use an already existing mechanism!

    #161800

    SaintTodd
    Member

    I like all these ideas.

    #161807

    Athei
    Member

    I’m really glad there are more people out there who share my need for RPG-ness 😀
    I’ll wait another day or two for some more comments and then I’ll post it in compiled topics index 😉

    #161844

    The Mentat
    Member

    Apart from the currently very poorly implemented underground, the rather bland heroes are one of my few remaining gripes with AoW3.

    I completely agree with this! Heroes just have still so much potential in AoW.

    4) Adept specialization (spells) to heroes – IMHO heroes are lacking the uniqueness they had in the previous game (since they no longer have the description/history, but I already ranted about that…).

    Specialization spells can add to the uniqueness of heroes but only a bit one-sided because a hero would always have his particular quality in casting spells but never in leadership or combat strength. Why not adding an ability for a hero like the ones Jaduggar suggested as unit specializations:

    Archery: Archers gain ‘Projectile Resistance’ and +1 armor (of course only working if the hero is leading the party)

    Terrifying Charge: Cavalry gain ‘Terrifying Charge’(new): Charging an enemy unit with your cavalry causes them to become shaken for 2 turns, and has a chance to panic archers and support units

    Or an ability that affects an already existing spell:

    Poison Master (for a Rogue Hero): Rain of Poison Blades deals 5% more damage per hero level

    However the RPG-element I miss the most are some exceptional skills that have on the other hand some requirements in skills – so that you have to plan to get them and to decide in which direction the hero should develop. This decision would of course depend on the qualities of already recruited heroes and thereby heavily increase replayability …

    #161848

    Athei
    Member

    Specialization spells can add to the uniqueness of heroes but only a bit one-sided because a hero would always have his particular quality in casting spells but never in leadership or combat strength. Why not adding an ability for a hero like the ones Jaduggar suggested as unit specializations:

    My idea is not excluding other ideas for hero customization, it’s just that mine is already there, in the game, and would be quite easy to implement 🙂

    #161849

    Mythabril
    Member

    What I am missing on heroes are race specific upgrades. For example Draconians getting access to firebomb, increased levels of fire resistance, dragon ancestor and maybe even forgoing the mount slot for growing wings.

    Also I am missing in general leader skills for terrain walking, giving every unit in the stack greater mobility in crossing the specific terrain. Maybe combine that with the above and give races that have a terrain walking such a leadership ability.

    #161855

    Gloweye
    Member

    Also I am missing in general leader skills for terrain walking, giving every unit in the stack greater mobility in crossing the specific terrain. Maybe combine that with the above and give races that have a terrain walking such a leadership ability.

    This method is already noted as impossible by the Dev’s because of the way movement is calculated(technically speaking, they don’t move as a stack, but all seperate. Thus they lose the leadership abilities when moving. It doesn’t break stealth because there is no check for visibility halfway.)

    #162118

    Mourioche
    Member

    I like these idea.

    Keep in mind that for 1) this should be done for all languages supported by the game,
    Make these audio file should be a lot of work (or allow modders to make there own audio file)

    #162138

    Anonymous

    I really like the idea of adding RPG elements! I was thinking of posting a topic about it before. Mostly, I’d like to be able to explore cities without taking over them. For instance, you could have a brief conversation with a priest in the temple and then go to the tavern to have a drink looking for clues to a mystery. Conversations would be text based with an image and then you could actually have a tavern brawl as a tactical combat map. Probably not something they’d get around to for DLC, but would be a cool idea for a sequel down the line. Also I’d like to explore dungeons or have a more interesting underground experience.

    #162142

    For 4) I think that its a good idea but prefer it not head towards more magic. I’d rather it have more racial skills like goblin heroes able to learn disgusting stench, or draconian heroes leaning dragon ancestry.

    #162149

    Jaduggar
    Member

    1) Battle unit speech bubbles

    To be honest, this would drive me mad. I absolutely never want this XD

    2) Class based random quests

    I am ambivalent towards this. As long as the AI gets their own, and knows how to respond to them, then I wouldnt be against it.

    3) Leader starting heirloom

    Love this.

    4) Adept specialization (spells) to heroes

    I want to see heroes upgraded more as well, but is this the right way to do it?

    Why not adding an ability for a hero like the ones Jaduggar suggested

    HEY!! Ive heard of this guy… hes got good ideas, and Im told hes devilishly handsome as well 🙂

    What I am missing on heroes are race specific upgrades. For example Draconians getting access to firebomb, increased levels of fire resistance, dragon ancestor and maybe even forgoing the mount slot for growing wings.
    Also I am missing in general leader skills for terrain walking, giving every unit in the stack greater mobility in crossing the specific terrain. Maybe combine that with the above and give races that have a terrain walking such a leadership ability.

    Yes… this ^

    ALL of this, in a bag, with napkins. This needs to be.

    I really like the idea of adding RPG elements! I was thinking of posting a topic about it before. Mostly, I’d like to be able to explore cities without taking over them. For instance, you could have a brief conversation with a priest in the temple and then go to the tavern to have a drink looking for clues to a mystery. Conversations would be text based with an image and then you could actually have a tavern brawl as a tactical combat map. Probably not something they’d get around to for DLC, but would be a cool idea for a sequel down the line. Also I’d like to explore dungeons or have a more interesting underground experience.

    HEY… I know you… I commented on some of your artwork on Steam about a billion years ago. Right after the game came out.

    #162174

    Athei
    Member

    Athei wrote:

    1) Battle unit speech bubbles

    To be honest, this would drive me mad. I absolutely never want this XD

    This would be optional, just like unit banners and squad members dying as unit take damage.

    I’m aware some peeps would love this idea, and others would hate it, but as long as you can turn it on/off it would not be a problem for those that hate it, so why not add it if the rest of us would enjoy it? 🙂

    #162217

    Eomolch
    Member

    What I am missing on heroes are race specific upgrades. For example Draconians getting access to firebomb, increased levels of fire resistance, dragon ancestor and maybe even forgoing the mount slot for growing wings.

    This! There is so much (still unused) potential in racial hero upgrades (as for hero development in general). The best part is that you could mostly do with already existing abilities which implies that the implementation of the new hero upgrades would only require a reasonable amount of work.

    Consider this and an addition of the imho really cool family heirloom idea presented in this thread and you may actually find yourself using heroes of the same class with different roles. Because let’s be honest .. has anyone ever successfully used a theocrat hero as a melee unit? Or an arch druid in that respect? Now consider an orc theocrat with a club as his heirloom that grants +2 melee spirit damage and the possibility to learn battle cry (early), killing momentum (later) and mabye the new meditation ability (as new theocrat hero ability) and you have a perfectly feasible battle monk.

    #162231

    Charlatan
    Member

    1) Battle unit speech bubble

    Somehow this reminds me of the banters/comments/cries for help/insults of the mercs in the old game Jagged Alliance 2, which I liked a lot.

    #162305

    The Mentat
    Member

    Consider this and an addition of the imho really cool family heirloom idea presented in this thread and you may actually find yourself using heroes of the same class with different roles. Because let’s be honest .. has anyone ever successfully used a theocrat hero as a melee unit? Or an arch druid in that respect? Now consider an orc theocrat with a club as his heirloom that grants +2 melee spirit damage and the possibility to learn battle cry (early), killing momentum (later) and mabye the new meditation ability (as new theocrat hero ability) and you have a perfectly feasible battle monk.

    That’s a really important point! It’s not enough to add just randomly some racial upgrades that are basically independent of the class skills but to implement them in a way that they can actually influence the utilization of the hero. The race should matter for development of the hero!

    It would be even greater if we could have both: Racial upgrades and a small unique specialization for every hero (connected with a short back story). Maybe the hero has grown up in a convent and can therefore cast bless (a specialization spell as Athei suggested) – this would again increase its value as a support.

    Regarding the heirloom idea:

    If it’s working like the item forge it could lead to the same problem: Once you’ve found out what combination works the best you create always the same items. I think there should be some restrictions so that you have different options depending on class and eventually also on race and specialization.

    #167545

    Xaneorath
    Member

    As many voices here I read before, I am also biased about #1 and #2.

    #1 sounds like it would be fun first, but become quite annoying after a couple of matches. Also I don’t think it fits the rather serious world environment of Age of Wonders. (And yes, I realize most of the unit descriptions are written to be somewhat funny or ironic. But considering that being optional, the rest of the game has a distinctive feeling of seriousness which I don’t believe would benefit from wacky comments. ^^ And lets be honest: They need to be wacky to even be fun at first, while units giving serious remarks would annoy most people even faster.)

    In #2 I don’t see the need for a substitute to the old deity-quests, as we already got the city quests for that. But I like the idea of adding class/race/mastery-based quests or choices to create a more convincing roleplay-behaviour of the various classes. A few things I could think of would be:
    – class choice quest, Dreadnought: Will you allow a mana node IN your domain to be useless for 20 turns to get a distinct advantage your scientists have been brewing?
    – class quest, Dreadnought: Will you get one of the wood-destruction-skills, to solve your “massive creation of new construction space”-quest?
    – race quest, Dwarf (only with UG), will you clear 50(70/100?) spaces of tunnels, but make your Underground cities more attackable by it?
    – mastery quest, Destruction: Will you be able to burn down a large amount of cities?
    Maybe it could be combined with the EQs which are part of the game anyways. Imagine having 1-3 possible bonus achievements per class/race/mastery, raising competition especialy between players who decided to take the same picks. (And might make it interesting for players to take underdog-Masteries, classes or races to gain a monopolized access to them)

    #3 is another idea I like.. but not for the leader but in combination with #4 for creating a bigger uniqueness of heroes! Lets skip to #4 and I’ll explain..

    #4 (with consideration of #3) is a good idea, where we even got a few additions already. There is a sorcerer hero who can heal magical beings and a draconian dread with fire-cloak. Also we got unique spellbook-spells to begin with. Why not increase the variety here with the idea about heirlooms and single spells from Adept-Classes?
    A hero who starts with Fireball or Seeker would be examples for heroes which bring their own spell other heroes won’t get because of the missing mastery. (allthough seeker might already be too strong a spell for a random hero)
    Another hero neither brings own skills or spells, but has that heirloom, which is neat to have early on! Of course.. you can’t give it to another hero or drop it.. and if he dies, of course he.. erm.. ate it! So you won’t get it dropped either. (Or else people would just grab any heirloom with their Avatar). It still takes an artifact place, and while it might be neat early on, the heroes obsession with it might be trouble later if you want to use the slot for another artifact.
    On the contrary to #3 however, I believe the Avatars are unique enough by their exclusive access to Masteries. The idea to give some additional skillchoices for those masteries sounds good too.. but I wouldn’t suggest binding that on races, but rather on those Mastery-Choices. Simply because Im tired of all my draconian units learning how to fling fireballs and nothing else..
    But maybe a Mastery in Fire Magic would give any avatar an early access to firebomb with 5 sp at lvl 5 or 6?
    Maybe a Mastery in Wind Magic could give him the ability to give his armies units +8mp, and maybe a Mastery in Wild Magic would give him a random “walking” skill for his army to pick from, every 3 levels? You know, like Mountain-Walking, Forest-Walking, etc? Which you could also get from elemental masteries.. imagine Earth masters to be able to mountain-walk race-unspecific with their heroes army at some point. Water Masters being able to let an army walk on water… etcetcetc.

    #5 .. the reason I actualy logged into the board today, is my own Idea I wanna add. ^^ Since the discussion here is just perfect for it, I’ll add it here:
    a.) I miss the descriptions of our heroes outstanding personalities and achievements we had in Age of Wonders 2. Really. I was someone who read them, chuckled and liked various heroes more than others because of them. b.) Also I’d LOVE to be able to write a self-written Avatar-Description for my various avatars, which can be visible in the Avatar Details like the description of any other unit. I know not many players would actualy care and it’s an Underdog-Request, considering many players don’t even change their avatars Name.. but I’m sure it would increase the feeling of RPG for those players who actualy enjoy creating names, worlds and.. renaming their cities. 😀

    #167551

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I like all OP’s suggestions except the battle speech one. In Total War games, I skip that every time.

    #167673

    #5 .. the reason I actualy logged into the board today, is my own Idea I wanna add. ^^ Since the discussion here is just perfect for it, I’ll add it here:<br>
    a.) I miss the descriptions of our heroes outstanding personalities and achievements we had in Age of Wonders 2. Really. I was someone who read them, chuckled and liked various heroes more than others because of them. b.) Also I’d LOVE to be able to write a self-written Avatar-Description for my various avatars, which can be visible in the Avatar Details like the description of any other unit. I know not many players would actualy care and it’s an Underdog-Request, considering many players don’t even change their avatars Name.. but I’m sure it would increase the feeling of RPG for those players who actualy enjoy creating names, worlds and.. renaming their cities. :D

    I would definitely write these as well. 😀

    All the OP’s suggestions have great potential.

    As long as #1 is able to be toggled and even added to by the player, would be a hoot. My Dire Penguins would so have thick Spanish accents (they live near Argentina; well, their namesakes do anyway) and be very conspiratorial in their constant chatter (I know, I need audio for this, but still).

    #2 More varied quests, from more sources; definitely. Perhaps a roaming independent group doesn’t want to attack you, but would like to be escorted back to their underground city…and of course, your group should be ambushed a couple times… as an example.

    #3 What would be really cool is the aesthetic value of choosing your starting weapon design, and then in game, getting to forge it as you see fit once you have built an item forge. You could still change weapons if you wanted (like if you found a Mythical one that outdoes anything the Forge can create).

    #4 Great idea, coupled with #5 from @xaneorath. Adept specialization for spells, race abilities, and biographic descriptions. Yes please. This would work well with adding custom leaders as heroes, because just one of the three specializations could be (randomly) chosen for each map playthrough. So you hire your beloved leader from last game as your new hero, but won’t know his EXACT abilities until then.

    Great thread, @athei!

    #167800

    Just to follow up, #4 is already possible of course as far as adding Racial or other abilities to specific heroes; just hired Caerril the Fearsome, and he actually has “Fearsome” right from the get-go. Probably need a Necro hero or two with that as well!

    #167875

    Fingers
    Member

    Some interesting ideas.

    I don’t have the game quite yet as I’ve been waiting FOREVER for it to go on sale on Steam, but can’t help chiming in here with an opinion, based mainly on my experience with the earlier games and what I’ve seen and read so far of AoWIII.

    One RPGish type element I would really like to have is the occasional AoWI-style dungeon crawl, perhaps developed a bit further with some sites containing multiple levels and requiring special keys or talismans (or is that talismen?!!) or completed quest objectives to be fully explored. 🙂

    #168162

    I love all of these idea, but unlike many here i really like the unit conversations thing.

    I am very bitter about the fact that we cannot script events and dialog to happen during combat. This gets me one step closer to that.

    +1,2,3,4

    #168193

    Demiurgus
    Member

    i like those ideas too.

    what i would suggest additionaly, that you could choose a class specialisation from beginning. Might mess with the balancing, but looking at the new necromancer class i would like to be a lich from the beginning so i would wish for my character in a campaigne for example not start as human/orc/etc. and lose his life several times through a story arch :P. just wishfull thinking here from a purely aesthetic mind 🙂

    #168494

    Athei
    Member

    Thank you all for your replies, I’m glad this topic is still hot, that means the devs will have to see it sooner or later 🙂

    #5 .. the reason I actualy logged into the board today, is my own Idea I wanna add. ^^ Since the discussion here is just perfect for it, I’ll add it here:
    a.) I miss the descriptions of our heroes outstanding personalities and achievements we had in Age of Wonders 2. Really. I was someone who read them, chuckled and liked various heroes more than others because of them. b.) Also I’d LOVE to be able to write a self-written Avatar-Description for my various avatars, which can be visible in the Avatar Details like the description of any other unit. I know not many players would actualy care and it’s an Underdog-Request, considering many players don’t even change their avatars Name.. but I’m sure it would increase the feeling of RPG for those players who actualy enjoy creating names, worlds and.. renaming their cities. 😀

    This! I actually created not one but two topics for this issue a while ago, and seeing how they didn’t get too much attention I decided not to mention it here again…
    Anyway I’m all up for this idea! Here’s a screenshot of my favorite Ork maiden from AoWSM 🙂

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 31 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.