Suggestion: Success of AOW 1+2 Depended Also On Movement

We’ve moved over to the paradox forums. Please come visit us there to discuss:
You can still read the collective wisdom - and lolz - of the community here, but posting is no longer possible.

Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Suggestion: Success of AOW 1+2 Depended Also On Movement

This topic contains 18 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  The_Harlequin 9 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #3772

    This is a (maybe useless) note for the developers, I haven’t really been able to tell from the video how much movement units have each turn, but IMO it is very important that the overall feeling of space stays faithful to that in AOW 1 and 2, because other game like Fallen Enchantress and even MOM tried to create an epic feeling preventing units from moving more than a few tiles, and thus also the number of actions a unit could perform in the same turn.

    I won’t even discuss whether in those game that was a succesful decision, but I believe that since the AOW frachise depends heavily on multiplayer (probably mostly PBEM) I believe not allowing units to move around as much as they did in the previous AOW games, could be a huge turn off (if you allow me the pun), as now players wouldn’t be able to perform as many action as they used to do in the past, during their turn.

    Again, this comment was probably useless, and movement is probably fine. But I think it is something nobody ever mentioned and IMO it should be pointed out at least for the records.

    (Also I haven’t really been able to tell how movement works, because in the gameplay video a city appears to be inside a huge hexagon and the units seem to move freely inside of it. Has anyone figured that out?)

    #3773

    bam65
    Member

    It also depends heavily on single player.

    #3774

    cyz
    Member

    For me one of the most appealing aspects of AOW2 was the fact moving and the amount of attacks were linked. I really hope that stays in, it creates much more options compared to most games that have a more simplified system.

    #3784

    b0rsuk
    Member

    The opposite of MoM style slow movement is Heroes of Might and Magic, where units move very fast and there’s no zone of control mechanic. I think it’s terrible, it lowers tactical depth because positioning is no longer so important. You can move around units however you please most of the time, and – for example – to protect your archers, you need to go through contortions and focus most of your army on it. It’s very hard to keep enemy from certain area. In HeroesII, a unit that moves 4 hexes is considered “extra slow” ! Average would be 7-8 probably.

    I think Wesnoth has zones of control, but also very fast units. The effect is very similar and not very tactical. Zones of control don’t have a big enough effect. I would… make zones of control bigger in that game. For instance, hexes adjacent to a unit would work as current zones of control, while hexes in a distance of 2 would cause movement cost 1 extra point.

    In my opinion what it really boils down to is the ratio: space occupied by a unit to movement speed. If units move very fast relative to occupied space, tactical depth, positioning drops. This is also one of my main complaints about Starcraft. Zones of control essentially make your units “bigger” for enemies. They can be perceived as a form of soft collisions. You are able to cover a larger area with your units, but without the downside of them blocking each other in narrow areas.

    —————-

    AoW: SM “number of attacks drops as you move” is brilliant mechanic. It’s essentially simplified time units mechanic. What’s really great is the balance between presentation and flexibility. Without pressing extra keys or fiddling with icons I can clearly see how far I can move if I want to attack 2 times.

    #3785

    Piko LV
    Member

    I think Wesnoth has zones of control, but also very fast units. The effect is very similar and not very tactical.

    Wat? I suggest u playing BfW a bit more, especially MP.

    #3789

    Fikol
    Member

    exactly Wesnoth is very tactical and unit movement varies heavily – it’s one of the best hex tactic game in my opinion,

    #3791

    b0rsuk
    Member

    Obviously I meant Heroes III, not Heroes II.

    Wesnoth isn’t even the best free tactics game. It has more to do with a game of dice.
    http://www.kongregate.com/games/StormAlligator/mission-in-space-the-lost-colony

    #3798

    Narvek
    Keymaster

    Hmm I always liked Battle for Wesnoth, but will try to give the other one you linked a try sometime.

    As to the original poster’s point: I also feel more movement is nice, because the more places you can go, the more options you have, and the more options you have, the more potential to make a great move that someone hasn’t foreseen and that helps you win. We’ll have to balance it of course and tweak it all. We don’t want to create a race that no one plays because their movement sucks.

    Also there is difference between the individual units.

    Flyers (and cavalry) will move far, for example.

    #3804

    Piko LV
    Member

    Wesnoth isn’t even the best free tactics game. It has more to do with a game of dice.

    I’m pacifist so I’m trying to avoid a flamewar, but what u said is ridiculous. I dunno how can you understimate BfW gameplay, art, plot and modding capabilities so much. Anyway I don’t know the game you linked, so I don’t say this is worse than Wesnoth in any way. But I pretty doubt about it. ;P

    #3808

    We are going a bit off topic though, what I am talking about is the movement on the strategic map, of course. When player receive their turn in the PBEM system they should have enough stuff to do even if it is the beginning of a game or even if their empire isn’t doing so well.

    #3813

    I think only scout units should have high movement points in the strategic map. For the rest, I’m actually hoping they move slower than in AoW:SM. Double moving hasted units ruined lots of MP games.

    #3829

    OK but you realise that in MOM and in FE the standard movement for infantry is two tises? I am just trying to point out how that is not the way to go. Imagine you get a turn by email and all you have to do is open it move and send it back. Would it be fun to wait a while day to play the net? after hoiw many days like that would you lose interest in the game?

    #3854

    Narvek
    Keymaster

    My answer holds for strategic map 😉

    #3856

    I never mentioned MOM or FE. I’m not asking to convert the current system.  I was suggesting a reduction in speed values much like what was done in Dwiggs Mod for SM. In addition to making double moves much more difficult to pull off, it gives the impression of a bigger world. And transport units acquire more relevance.

    I also spoke of hasted units, and related to that I think haste trees should not replenish movement points but only provide the haste enchant to units in the stack. In RMG’s, it’s totally possible to chain move through them and cover huge distances. That affects both MP and SP, as the AI has not way of predicting such a maneuver.

    #3865

    Edi
    Member

    The haste berry trees in some campaign scenarios in Wizards’ Throne were ridiculous because of the way they allowed chaining moves. I’d rather make them a rare map property and modify them per Harlequin’s suggestion. Basically make it impossible to replenish spent movement points by any means.

    Sure, you can have haste, but if you spent some of those hasted movement points, too bad.

    #3868

    “I never mentioned MOM or FE. I’m not asking to convert the current system. I was suggesting a reduction in speed values much like what was done in Dwiggs Mod for SM. In addition to making double moves much more difficult to pull off, it gives the impression of a bigger world. And transport units acquire more relevance.”

    I am not familiar with the mod you are talking about, but I don’t think that limiting movement is the best way to give the impression of a bigger world! To me it is important to be careful with that because it may very well make turns boring instead. Also transports won’t get any relevance in AOWIII because there are no transports (at least no boats).

    #3879

    Why do you think limiting movement will make turns boring?

    And I didn’t see anything that could indicate land (or aerial) transport units won’t be present in AoW3.

    #3883

    As I mentioned before when you play by email it’s definitely annoying to get the turn you have waited for (usually) a whole day and just move a couple of tiles and nothing happens (expecially at the beginning of a game).

    People get tired of that very quickly and games die fast… and the AOW series has always had a very strong PBEM community.

    Regarding transport, sure there may be tanks and baloons (although I don’t know about baloons, since now flyers must land during battles… dunno how that will be managed)

     

    #3904

    I can’t relate to that. In games like AoW, there’s always something to do that doesn’t necessary involve attacking. Exploring (even if slowly), is very exciting for me.

    If I may, I suggest you join several PBEM games. That way, if in some of them you don’t have much to do, in others you may find lots of battles to fight.

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.