[Suggestion]Multiplayer and Auto Battles

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions [Suggestion]Multiplayer and Auto Battles

This topic contains 13 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  Joppsta 7 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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  • #204985

    Joppsta
    Member

    Firstly, I’m not a competitive MP player, I only play with friends usually in a compstompey kind of way. So this is where this setting is primarily focused on… although I’m sure it also flows over into PvP as well. With this out of the way…

    Problem:
    The problem with MP, for me, is that in order to minmax you should play every battle. When you Auto, you find that the AI for whatever reason decides everything but that one Archer in your army survives.. which is infuriating as obviously the Archer would be the last thing to be taking a hit in a battle if you play it properly. This results in, with my friends and myself, a lot of unnecessary manual battles to ensure a unit won’t die, which is usually a pretty easy affair anyway.

    Solution:
    Simply make it so you can simulate the result of the battle rather than this probability to win nonsense. Winning is nice and all.. but if you are losing your shiny T3 units at the start of the game to bullshit it drives you nuts. Make this a choice though, not mandatory, similar to the choice of having Auto battles only. This way it doesn’t impact the people who do not want to play with this feature.

    That about sums it up. TL;DR I don’t want to spend hours of my life watching another person play a game.

    – Joppsta

    #205023

    Wallthing
    Member

    Auto battle is simply the AI taking control of both sides of the battle. The “probability to win” stuff is just an estimation and doesn’t have anything to do with determining the results of the battle.

    The AI just isn’t as careful about preserving your units as you might be.

    #205031

    Gloweye
    Member

    Well…..that would take the gamble away from the battle. If you know exactly what’s gonna happen, isn’t that going to make the game even more extremely dull?

    Also, there’s the damage ranged to account for…maybe that archer will survive with 1 HP if you get lucky this time. Or AI just keeps him in the back because of reasons.

    #205048

    Joppsta
    Member

    Well…..that would take the gamble away from the battle. If you know exactly what’s gonna happen, isn’t that going to make the game even more extremely dull?

    Also, there’s the damage ranged to account for…maybe that archer will survive with 1 HP if you get lucky this time. Or AI just keeps him in the back because of reasons.

    Well, play with my friends and tell me how much you like watching manual battles.

    Would you play an 8-player game of AoW3 with manual battles enabled? I certainly wouldn’t, 2-3 players is already bad enough.

    #205116

    LordCameron
    Member

    In case you missed Wallthing’s post the auto battles are already simulated. You can even watch them by pressing the little circle button in the result screen.

    #205161

    Gloweye
    Member

    Well…..that would take the gamble away from the battle. If you know exactly what’s gonna happen, isn’t that going to make the game even more extremely dull?

    Also, there’s the damage ranged to account for…maybe that archer will survive with 1 HP if you get lucky this time. Or AI just keeps him in the back because of reasons.

    Well, play with my friends and tell me how much you like watching manual battles.

    Would you play an 8-player game of AoW3 with manual battles enabled? I certainly wouldn’t, 2-3 players is already bad enough.

    I admit auto-battle has it’s flaws, but it’s the best you can get for a MP game like this. This “Simulating” will take away all the risk, since you can just pick the results if you like them and revert the battle if you don’t.

    The the solutions are:
    1. Play Auto-batttles, and build an extra archer to compensate. Also, never attack sites without a full stack – numerical advantages really help, with auto-combat as well. Keep wounded units outside of battle.
    2. Play Manual Battles, and get some patience.

    #205445

    Joppsta
    Member

    Well…..that would take the gamble away from the battle. If you know exactly what’s gonna happen, isn’t that going to make the game even more extremely dull?

    Also, there’s the damage ranged to account for…maybe that archer will survive with 1 HP if you get lucky this time. Or AI just keeps him in the back because of reasons.

    Well, play with my friends and tell me how much you like watching manual battles.

    Would you play an 8-player game of AoW3 with manual battles enabled? I certainly wouldn’t, 2-3 players is already bad enough.

    I admit auto-battle has it’s flaws, but it’s the best you can get for a MP game like this. This “Simulating” will take away all the risk, since you can just pick the results if you like them and revert the battle if you don’t.

    The the solutions are:
    1. Play Auto-batttles, and build an extra archer to compensate. Also, never attack sites without a full stack – numerical advantages really help, with auto-combat as well. Keep wounded units outside of battle.
    2. Play Manual Battles, and get some patience.

    1. That’s a no brainer, I never attack with anything less than a full stack. The issue is when you have a full health 6 stack against 3 T1’s and for whatever reason that archer unit dies.

    2. I like playing manual battles when they are actually meaningful and have to be came at in a tactical way.. but fighting against a significantly weaker opponent purely so you don’t lose that one low health unit to AI derp is not very fun IMO. Especially when you multiply that by a few players.

    Sure, a manual like that maybe takes 3-4 minutes to go through but it’s still frustrating.

    The issue isn’t that I don’t want to play MB, the issue is that I don’t want to play meaningless MB that could easily be resolved with the AB but the risk factor is why I go MB.

    If I wanted to play with risk, I’d go play Russian Roulette, there is no place for this kind of RNG in a strategy game.

    #205580

    Gloweye
    Member

    Well….neither is there place for removing all the risk of engaging in battle, if you can just reverse it if you dont like the results. Cause that would make the “strategy” in “strategy game” obsolete.

    #205608

    Zakharov
    Member

    The AI for your troops in an autobattle is exactly the same as the AI for the enemy troops, and is the same as the AI for the independents in a manual battle. If they improved the AI to stop you from losing units in an autobattle, the improvements would probably result in the enemy AI being smart enough to kill those units anyway.

    I think the game is more balanced when you risk losing units fighting independents. Manually fighting battles to avoid losing units lets the player expand too quickly, which isn’t good for balance.

    #205882

    Joppsta
    Member

    The AI for your troops in an autobattle is exactly the same as the AI for the enemy troops, and is the same as the AI for the independents in a manual battle. If they improved the AI to stop you from losing units in an autobattle, the improvements would probably result in the enemy AI being smart enough to kill those units anyway.

    I think the game is more balanced when you risk losing units fighting independents. Manually fighting battles to avoid losing units lets the player expand too quickly, which isn’t good for balance.

    As I stated, I would like this as an option, not mandatory. The problem is that when I play with friends we all play the manual battles because we know how fucked up the auto results can be, this is the crux of the point.

    It’s not that I want an “I win” button, it’s simply that I want the option of being able to skip over meaningless battles because that one key unit with 10hp could die because of RNG.

    Well….neither is there place for removing all the risk of engaging in battle, if you can just reverse it if you dont like the results. Cause that would make the “strategy” in “strategy game” obsolete.

    The strategy part is the choice of playing the battle to make it a clear victory. I’m not asking for this option to be mandatory, I just would like it as an option as it would save myself and my friends hours of our lives in the early game.

    #205901

    Triscopic
    Member

    Seems to me the tl;dr; here is “please make the tactical AI better and/or let me roll back auto battle results I don’t like” I’m almost certain triumph would love to do the former, but I’m equally sure it’s non trivial. As for the latter, I’d expect that to be considered a bit too much like cheating for the community at large to get behind.

    Edit: if my summary is wrong, please correct me, but that’s basically how I read the thread.

    #205923

    You can “game” the autocombat quite well. It’s just another thing to learn.

    If you have a unit with 10 hp in the attacking stack, think very carefully whether it’s worth using it.

    #205927

    ArcaneSeraph
    Member

    Well other similar games to this have had an option whereby you could conduct an auto-battle and if the results were not to your liking you could choose to replay it as manual. You had to commit to the fight before you could see the results so it wasn’t possible to cancel a fight if you didn’t like the outcome.

    The main goal of such a feature would be to save time in MP fighting the independents but still allow manual combat if something went terribly wrong. Several of the HoMM games did this and I always thought it was an extremely useful time saving feature.

    I would love it see it as an available option to cut down on the monotony of endless manual battles. 90% of the time auto battle does a decent job but once it a while it does something moronic and at times game changing. In order to avoid those 10% problems you have to fight every fight. This would allow you to auto all but those 10%.

    #205938

    Joppsta
    Member

    Well other similar games to this have had an option whereby you could conduct an auto-battle and if the results were not to your liking you could choose to replay it as manual. You had to commit to the fight before you could see the results so it wasn’t possible to cancel a fight if you didn’t like the outcome.

    The main goal of such a feature would be to save time in MP fighting the independents but still allow manual combat if something went terribly wrong. Several of the HoMM games did this and I always thought it was an extremely useful time saving feature.

    I would love it see it as an available option to cut down on the monotony of endless manual battles. 90% of the time auto battle does a decent job but once it a while it does something moronic and at times game changing. In order to avoid those 10% problems you have to fight every fight. This would allow you to auto all but those 10%.

    This guy gets it.

    The objective is to allow a game to be enjoyable, not to “cheat” as it is branded above by someone else. The point is to save manual battling endlessly in the meaningless stupid battles.

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