Summon Eldritch Animal

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Summon Eldritch Animal

This topic contains 42 replies, has 24 voices, and was last updated by  limaceman 7 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #83337

    What are peoples’ thoughts on this spell?

    I’m of the opinion that it’s pretty underwhelming compared to other Arch Druid summons. The four possible summons are (off the top of my head):

    -Dire penguin
    -Zephyr bird
    -Blight-tusk boar
    -Arctic warg

    the latter two are pretty good – nothing amazing considering you could get two t1 animals from Summon Wild Animal, but good enough. The first two are problematic, though. Dire Penguins are solidly tier 1 (i.e. not very good). Zephyr birds are good scouts, but if I’m casting this spell I’m expecting a combat unit, which the zephyr bird is awful at.

    I think the spell could use a couple new tier 2 animals as summons. Thoughts?

    #83352

    Motasa
    Member

    I fully agree. This spell certainly needs some more animals. There is a topic of adding bears as summons. I think adding some variety of bears could make this spell much more useful; with high hp and/or defence and powerful attacks, but maybe a bit slower than other animals. Furthermore I would like to see some large cat (with backstab and certain concealments) added to the game.

    Ah, those wishes. I hope they’ll get granted in time.

    #83384

    jamesii
    Member

    A slightly enhanced giant frog (deep lurker) from earlier games sounds like a good candidate (amphibious, poison spitting, wetland/water concealment; and entangling strke at gold medel).

    #83419

    hilfazer
    Member

    Yes, this particular summoning spell looks rather bad.

    All animal summoning spells (and summon fantastic creature) have one common disadvantage: they summon random thing. Other summon spells allow you to get exactly what you want, with animal summoning you have to gamble. That’s pretty nice feature actually, but this randomness should be somehow compensated.

    Summon Gargantuan Animal already does it: average tier of units it summons is higher than 3, and it costs 120 mana (summon elemental costs 180 mana). This is how I would like to see other random summoning spells.

    Summon Eldritch Animal fails to do this. For 80 mana average unit tier is only 1,5. I’d move zephyr bird to Summon Wild Animal and add some T3 unit here, possibly something new like giant turtles we could see in AoW1. I hope Nimue spared them 🙁

    Summon Wild Animal could become overcrowded by addition of zephyr bird. One of the spiders could be removed.

    #83436

    Sadist1
    Member

    All of the random summoning spells need to be looked at.

    Dire animal and summon siege engine (combat spell) are both first candidates for it.

    I could get a zephyr bird for 120 mana, which is awful. Or I could get an arctic warg, which is actually useful (although probably not as strong as the wizard 120 mana spell)

    For siege engine – I could get a 50 gold Ram which dies on the way to the gates. Or I could get a tier 3 trebuchet, which destroys 3 walls before I begin to assault a city.

    Too much of a luck factor. Imagine if magic fist did 20-60 damage, how stupid would that be. You could insta kill a lvl 1 hero unit.

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by  President.
    #83438

    DerDings
    Member

    The possible summons should at least all be within the same tier: Animal (1), Eldritch (2), Fantastical (3). Straight forward and fair.

    #83447

    Rillifane
    Member

    I don’t know why you all complain about zephyr bird, I always try to get them. They are best scouts early on and very useful in large maps.

    #83505

    drachasor
    Member

    Imho, the real problem is that the Zephyr Bird and Dire Penguin are pretty awful units and not worth their summoning cost. The Dire Penguin probably just needs a solid buff. The Zephyr Bird needs its casting cost and maintenance reduced (and should be a lower tier summon).

    We probably need to see something in its place. The game needs bears.

    Is it me or is it really bizarre that Druids can’t summon any sort of water creatures?

    #83880

    Rillifane
    Member

    Imho, the real problem is that the Zephyr Bird and Dire Penguin are pretty awful units and not worth their summoning cost. The Dire Penguin probably just needs a solid buff. The Zephyr Bird needs its casting cost and maintenance reduced (and should be a lower tier summon).

    We probably need to see something in its place. The game needs bears.

    Is it me or is it really bizarre that Druids can’t summon any sort of water creatures?

    The only problem of dire penguins to me is that they move too slow.

    Yes, they do summon water creatures. Try summon gargantuan creatures.

    Personally I’d like to see a baby kraken or some fey creatures added to the summon list.

    #84096

    Sathra
    Member

    I don’t mind the Dire penguins. They’re not bad as water scouts. And can’t you get Carrion Birds from Eldritch?

    #84103

    I don’t mind the Dire penguins. They’re not bad as water scouts. And can’t you get Carrion Birds from Eldritch?

    I don’t think I’ve ever seen carrion birds from Eldritch. i’m pretty sure that’s from Summon Gargantuan Creature.

    Anyway, I don’t think that the spell should be summoning units that are only worthwhile as scouts, unless you want to repurpose the spell entirely to only summon good scouting units (something that I would not be against, by the way).

    #84112

    melkathi
    Member

    I don’t know why you all complain about zephyr bird, I always try to get them. They are best scouts early on and very useful in large maps.

    Because you don’t get them early on?
    By the time I am casting spells that require 120 casting points, I am already half way through one opponent’s domain if it is SP. (can’t get multiplayer to work, so not going to comment about that)
    Also for 120 casting points I could get multiple cheaper summons and have them each scouting, covering far greater an area than one overpriced bird.

    #84127

    Dalwin
    Member

    I see the number 120 tossed around a lot but isn’t it actually 80 for eldritch animal? Even 80, however, is too much for a scout when dreadnoughts and sorcers have reliable scouts costing 30 or 40 without worrying about random results.

    You can’t mix in sea creatures, they would have to be in a separate spell since the results are random and you don’t know what you are going to have until after it is cast. That is unless your plan is to force the druid to always stay near the coast and cast every summon over water just in case it is a sea creature. The game allows land creatures to swim or take boats but kraken do not do well on land.

    #84139

    melkathi
    Member

    It would have been interesting if summons were affected by the tile they are cast on – cast it in arctic terrain, more penguins or arctic wargs. Cast it on water? Kraken, shock serpents, lurkers. Etc.

    #84199

    Sathra
    Member

    I miss Lurkers. Almost as much as Chaos Spawn/Lords.

    Also Tigrans. Dem cats be setting all the things on fire!

    #84225

    b0rsuk
    Member

    Carrion Birds are vultures, cowardly opportunists. How about an ability that gives them +3 or even +6 damage against targets which have less HP than them ? They would be dangerous finishers and prey on the weak. Glass cannons with an extra condition.

    #84234

    Sathra
    Member

    Or frost instead of blight damage. Its a giant undead vulture!

    #84238

    Taykor
    Member

    Summon Wild Animal could become overcrowded by addition of zephyr bird. One of the spiders could be removed.

    Spiders are the best you can get from that spell. There is no fun in weakening this spell by replacing a spider with this bird.

    #84283

    Motasa
    Member

    It would have been interesting if summons were affected by the tile they are cast on – cast it in arctic terrain, more penguins or arctic wargs. Cast it on water? Kraken, shock serpents, lurkers. Etc.

    Very nice idea.

    #84291

    Sathra
    Member

    Or the spell could be replaced with “Bear Cavalry” – Unlocks Bear Cavalry. Huge clubs/maces/hammers, Overwhelm, Sprint, no Armoured trait, projectile resistance. And wall crushing maybe?

    Nothing says “Guardians of the Circle of Life” like a bunch of guys on bears hitting people with two-handed clubs after all.

    #84298

    Stigrs77
    Member

    Or the spell could be replaced with “Bear Cavalry” – Unlocks Bear Cavalry. Huge clubs/maces/hammers, Overwhelm, Sprint, no Armoured trait, projectile resistance. And wall crushing maybe?

    Nothing says “Guardians of the Circle of Life” like a bunch of guys on bears hitting people with two-handed clubs after all.

    It’s called “Eldritch Animal”, so no mounted warriors. I think that Giant Toad (28mp, venom spit, venom touch and venom skin but low offense and defense + Swallow Whole on Gold Medal) and a “Razorclaw Bear” (28mp, high life, offense and defense, + wall crushing on gold medal) would be nice additions/replacements to the very similar Boars and Wolves of the two first randomized summon spells.

    So,

    Toad
    Bear
    Warg
    Boar
    Eagle
    Penguin

    #84310

    Motasa
    Member

    Giant Mole (from AoW 1) with cave crawling, night vision, mountaineering and tunnelling… maybe in combat armor piercing.

    #84317

    b0rsuk
    Member

    Before you ask for more animals, ask yourselves: would you be happy with another reskinned animal ? AoW3, like most 3D games, already reuses models a lot. All elementals and Shadow Stalker look very similar and have identical animations. AoW1-2 had Northern Glow, Zephyr Bird, Magic Servant, Minotaur, Nymph, Water Dancer, Lurker, Wolf, Spider, Efreet. Elementals and dragons looked different!

    AoW3 has hunter spider baby, dread spider baby, vampire spider baby, hunter spider queen, dread spider queen, vampire spider queen. Warg, bleak warg. Baby shock serpent, shock serpent. Reed serpent, baby reed serpent. Toadstool Fairy, Nightshade Fairy, Buttercup Fairy, Wisp(just a reskinned fairy). Fire Giant, Frost Giant, Stone Giant. So many reskins.

    #84321

    Sathra
    Member

    I meant actually removing the spell and adding in bear cavalry in its place.

    That and Arch-Druids kind of lack a good melee unit till they get gargantuan summons (though entangle and some of the summons do alright to fill in).

    Also just really like the idea of warriors riding bears into combat.

    On a serious note though, I don’t really like this spell. Its even more random than the others, and you don’t seem to get anything really useful. If you could get Felhorses or Nightmares from it, it would be a bit better since they can work alright in combat (not so much Felhorses, but Nightmares yeah).

    #84438

    Rev
    Member

    The possible summons should at least all be within the same tier: Animal (1), Eldritch (2), Fantastical (3). Straight forward and fair.

    Totally agree with this!

    I also don’t like the random nature of the spell either. I would love to have a choice of which animal I summon. This would represent the Druids mastery of calling the wild.

    #84480

    MrBasilisk
    Member

    It would have been interesting if summons were affected by the tile they are cast on – cast it in arctic terrain, more penguins or arctic wargs. Cast it on water? Kraken, shock serpents, lurkers. Etc.

    I really really like this. It might be difficult to do through mods, but it’s a great idea.

    That said, animals are pretty underwhelming to me. :/ I have a list of changes ready to be implemented in a mod when the tools are out that’ll hopefully make animals more interesting, but until then we’ll have to do with what we got.

    #84649

    Fiaryn
    Member

    Related to this, I find it kind of puzzling that Ancestor Spirits are so hard to get. They’re almost the same exact unit as Sorcerer Phantasmal Warriors yet…they’re three tiers higher in terms of research. I can’t really understand the reasoning for it. Sure, Inflict Spirit Break is nice but they do less damage than Phantasmals and their damage type is more commonly resisted to boot.

    Ancestor Spirits should really be brought down to tier 2, it would help out the early game a lot while the more complicated issue of multi-animal summons is sussed out.

    #84655

    Rev
    Member

    Ancestor Spirits should really be brought down to tier 2, it would help out the early game a lot while the more complicated issue of multi-animal summons is sussed out.

    Good point and I agree. I used that spell once and never used it again.

    About the other spells, they should let us select exactly which animal we want. Solved.

    #90902

    This thread is somewhat old, but…

    It would have been interesting if summons were affected by the tile they are cast on – cast it in arctic terrain, more penguins or arctic wargs. Cast it on water? Kraken, shock serpents, lurkers. Etc.

    I would love this. It would allow druids to actually make good use of the terrain bonuses of their summons and, let’s face it, a stack of bleak wargs fighting you in the arctic is much more awesome than a disparate mix of bleak wargs, boars, and zephyr birds.

    #90927

    Mezmorki
    Member

    For the record – does anyone know what creatures the Sorcerer’s “Summon Fantastic Creature” can summon?

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