Synergies/ideas/strats for the expansion

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Synergies/ideas/strats for the expansion

This topic contains 19 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  Aennor 7 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #181460

    Eji1700
    Member

    Since there’s a whole lot of new stuff, and not just for the new races and classes, I thought it might be a good idea if we had a general “look what I found” thread in general discussion (seeing as how the stategy forum is often pretty dead). Goal is just post up what you’re testing out, and what works and what doesn’t.

    First thoughts so far-
    Human necromancer has some interesting potential synergy that revolves around cavalry.

    The short version is that it’s VERY easy for necro’s to get medals on ghouled units thanks to the extra upgrade buildings, and even without that with reanimators + the research that gives them lesser revive, it’s VERY easy to keep your cavalry alive, even through auto combat (which btw seems a bit better at using units right, other than heroes maybe).

    This is important for 3 reasons:

    1. Racial upgrades give your cavalry a significant boost to their effectiveness

    2. At elite they evolve into knights, which are of course very strong units in their own right.

    3. Elite knights get strong willed, which gives them 100% spirit resistance and no mind control, thus negating their weakness to spirit and so many different mind control spells.

    By playing it somewhat like rogue corrupted killers, you can wind up with a stack or so of elite/champion knights in the mid game, and thats without ever building a knight (which is however still viable later thanks to those easy medals) and with all the buffs your necro units + cav racial bonuses can get they become GODLY powerful tanks and attackers. Throw a leader on the stack (basically anything except warlord?) and watch them go to town.

    The issue of course is that early on your cav are weak and attrition can be quite high (plus all the other “only cav” issues, such as weak vs walls). Reanimators help this a ton, but then slow your cav stacks. Still if you build your leader right he can help support at least one stack of 5 without movement penalties and as long as you choose your engagements well you can snowball tremendously hard. Granted I still need to test on higher difficulties and maybe multiplayer.

    #181463

    Gloweye
    Member

    Also, late game you can build Knights with 3 Medals (Riders Hall + Cathedral of Bones + Racial Governance), which is pretty close to Gold and Strong Will.

    However, weak point is that Cavalry is one of the units NOT getting Life Stealing(unless you’re going Shadowborn, which you probably want as you need the experience for evolving).

    Personally, I adore Necro Frostling, combining the Royal Guards with the Witches(having Heal Undead) makes for some pretty decent troops. Add in Stylite and Shadowborn for 4-channel attack out of the gate, or 5 with Frozen Flames. (Physical, Frost, Spirit, Shock, Fire from the Flames)

    #181492

    Sugar Rush
    Member

    Tigan Arch Druid seems nice. Panthers and the class Hunters both have that ability which deals more damage ensnared units IIRC. Cheetahs can gain throw net via race upgrades, and AD has spiders with web as well. This means very early you can get stacks of high damaging units with lots of control potential, for a low price as well (plus the Hunter has inflict bleeding right off the bat for bloodthirsty). And IIRC many of the Tigan race units get some type of concealment base or via upgrades.

    Added to this, your units get faster thanks to the Long Strider empire upgrade, meaning hunters and shamans/priests become super mobile. This is even more viable thanks to Shamans coming with a melee options in the bear transformation.

    The only downside is your racial T3 (which is one of the strongest IMO with its beam attack) doesn’t synergise perfectly, as it has lower speed so will slow the stack down. But you can just run harassing stacks of hunters/cheetahs/prowlers/shamans and death stacks of gods/heros/T3 etc.

    #181851

    xlnt
    Member

    I tried the above mentioned Tigran Druid (to get cold resist) on medium vs 4 AIs /2 teams of 2 – last difficulty/ and it works fine. Turn 21 – 1st AI died – the starting setting weak army has nice mix of mele (sun shield, pounce) range inc. elemental dmg from the cavalry and summon snakes to clear undeads and wisps ect. I went for the new “good” skills just to try them (good empire quest for flying scouts) – was not an educated pick, so.. discard it (:

    Than i wondered if the Frostling t2 cavalry is not the real broken OP unit and tried Dread Frostling – to get some Fire Res. early vs creeps. It performs well – it’s my 2nd play and i’ll finish it this evening. I love the CC that the scraper provides and the tanking/greater charge of the Mamoth. The Frostling infantry is also scary/useful. This combo has some problems with the 1st turn fire dmg. creeps though. One can opt for race cavalry after getting the flying scout/mana bateries and try to tech from there. I got creation, because the Frostlings dislike a lot of terain and fire – because the Dread uses it well.

    #181857

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I wrote elsewhere, but Frostling Sorcerer seems ridiculously well-matched so far (not going to say “OP,” since too early, and I think a clever player can always counter Frostlings well with fire stuff).

    #182155

    Eji1700
    Member

    I wrote elsewhere, but Frostling Sorcerer seems ridiculously well-matched so far (not going to say “OP,” since too early, and I think a clever player can always counter Frostlings well with fire stuff).

    Any particular reason? Just mass stun/freeze?

    #182163

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Epaminondas wrote:</div>
    I wrote elsewhere, but Frostling Sorcerer seems ridiculously well-matched so far (not going to say “OP,” since too early, and I think a clever player can always counter Frostlings well with fire stuff).

    Any particular reason? Just mass stun/freeze?

    It is possible, although difficult in practise, to phase in a set of frost queens, cast static electricity (bonus for a Lord of the Deep lightning storm) and then guard break/ stun (freeze with gold) the entire enemy army at once.

    Downside is fire, and that your summons are not concealed until mass invisibility.

    #182166

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Any particular reason? Just mass stun/freeze?

    That PLUS the fact that I prefer working with higher-tier, less-fragile units, and Frostlings are unique in that they have a T3 Support that can supplement or replace Apprentice spams.

    #182212

    Eji1700
    Member

    Ahh. I hadn’t realized the T3 was a support. I thought she was an irregular for some reason, although in hindsight that makes no sense.

    In other news is anyone else loving the flexibility of necro heroes? In necro armies they’re amazing obviously, but even outside their class you can build them as pretty potent casters, decent leaders, and downright brutal debuff/front lines killers.

    #182228

    Mc-doge
    Member

    Overall I’m liking the changes for halflings, and think the patron nightwatch bonus opens them up to dreadnought. Throw in the Keeper of peace mastery and you have plenty of moral skills, and stat bonuses to give the nightwatch a good chance to hold a line.

    Also the KoP spell Bolster and Choking Fumes combos decently enough giving no moral penalty for your non machine side. However the stat decreases remain for your living units.

    #182251

    Nerdfish
    Member

    Frostling Dreadnaught, nuff said.
    Advisor “outnumbered 2 to 1, don’t do it bro !”
    Manual combat.
    two turns later everything is frozen AND dead.

    #182252

    Fenraellis
    Member

    Personally, I adore Necro Frostling, combining the Royal Guards with the Witches(having Heal Undead) makes for some pretty decent troops. Add in Stylite and Shadowborn for 4-channel attack out of the gate, or 5 with Frozen Flames. (Physical, Frost, Spirit, Shock, Fire from the Flames)

    Don’t forget Power Ritual to add Blight damage, making it so the deal all damage channels. I haven’t personally had that setup all active at once, but it sounds lovely. 🙂
    Of course, Rogue/Sorc/Theo heroes can provide their respective damage types in a pinch, but it’s not as cool, and relies upon actually having those heroes. Shock and Blight damage from a Global Enchantment, and Fire from a unit you are almost guaranteed to have around for synergy anyway, is fairly easy.

    #182253

    Bob5
    Member

    This is a bit of a late-game strat but I think Wild Magic Mastery works well on Necromancers. I’m not sure if undead are actually affected by the Hormonal Imbalance mutation from Spontaneous Mutation for instance. But besides that, Warp Domain is fun as undead don’t care about clime anyway (apart from Frostling necro’s with concealments and artic walking), and Unstable Transformation is possibly great fun to use on Cadavers as they’re cannon-fodder units anyway. Worth it for those few precious times when a Cadaver transforms into a Phoenix.

    #182264

    Gloweye
    Member

    TBH, I think Spontaneous Mutation requires the units to be alive, correct?

    However, many other abilities will work, and Degenerate will make you able to Ghoul EVERY unit(except machines/undead). And I admit Cadavers sound like great Unstable Transformation fodder.

    #182271

    Bob5
    Member

    I never tried Spontaneous Mutation on undead before, I should try it out I guess. But Cadavers are probably the best Unstable Transformation fodder as Unstable Transformation can’t be cast on combat summons (learned that the hard way when I tried to combine it with the new Beast Horde).

    #182317

    xlnt
    Member

    I managed to get Mamoth riders with Dreadnought by turn 15, coming out each turn (110 production – not easy, but do-able). 90hp charger/tank (decent MP too) is so nice.

    The library treasure site (another ‘strong’ site to clear – yes!) is not so hard to beat in the 1st turns and gives a whole new spell (for which one must spend 3-6 turns to get otherwise), so clearing them early is good. Love the new AI – not that it’s immune to abuse, but it’s still nice to see the creeps wait for a change. I want to comment on that a bit – i saw ‘stupid’ behavior like 2 range units getting in and a mele unit defending way out of reach – maybe the AI needs some tweeks.

    Necro heroes – i was afraid they’ll be good only for the necro class, but they are nice to use as range dmg dealers and provide nice de-buffs and dmg type. One could use a soul(?) well to turn their army to ghouls if needed – vs orc/goblin druid or other blight-heavy combos for example.

    #182319

    Sugar Rush
    Member

    After some more playing, I rather like Frostling Warlords as well. Raise militia is really good with them, and their irregular unit rocks. Early game you can spam frozen range hits and clear most non-magma forge sites with ease.

    Also, their frost weapons make up for the warlords lack of alt damage, and late game warlord stacks are happy to have 1 ice queen with them as a bulk support/fight initiator.

    Added to this, around mid game you can start pumping out some really cheap and tanky mammoth riders who maintain a strong presence late into the game (purebred mounts is almost inconsequential on them!).

    Their main weakness IMO, is a lack of liked terrain and a higher dependency on class units for late game power than other races (plus a poorer econ bonus in the cheaper warhalls, as if you don’t go military production, like with sorcerers, it goes to waste). I find a large majority of the map is terrain my units dislike or flat out hate. I guess its lucky their T3 unit can be made so cheaply.

    #183192

    Dagoth Ur
    Member

    Human Necromancer works very well indeed, the production bonus helps mitigate the bad early Necro economy a little, Strong Will on the Knights and Bestow Iron Heart on the Priests…

    Another thing that’s really powerful is a Dwarf Warlord with Grey Guard Master (and Fire Adept for nuke, debuff and early summon or maybe Wild Magic Adept). Why? Ancient Ancestor ability on the Firstborn + the Grey Guard city enchantment bonus works pretty damn fine.
    Next there’s the strategic spell that gives all units +1 resist and all dedicated to neutral +2 defense on top (unless flanked) which also works good considering some Dwarf units have defensive strike, and are nearly impossible to flank when doing so. Dedicated to neutral Dwarf Phalanx is a force to be reckoned with, Manticores too. If you can get the Enchanted Armory, the Sphinx temple thing or the Stylite stuff for the Phalanx (I somehow managed to get all three when I first played this build), boy you got a stew going.
    And if you get to Racial Governance V, yeah…
    Apart from that there’s also the Cardinal Culling stuff that works awesome with Warlords (and kind of handles Shadow Stalker spam). And Healing Essence to deal with Necromancers and Purging Burst to deal with Sorcerers and Necromancers.
    Not to mention the Dwarf cost nerf is negated by the Warlord T1 empire upgrade.

    Another thing that works well is Orc Theocrat with Shadowborn Mastery but I’m not sure if this is because Orc Theocrat was good as it was already and the Shadowborn stuff just makes it more powerful. Life Stealing on (Tireless) Crusaders and Exalted? Don’t mind if I do. The Fallen Angel is also kind of ridiculous with a class that has a lot of healing potential to stall out battles.

    But yeah, that Dwarf Grey Guard Warlord though…

    #183243

    thabob79
    Member

    Tigran rogue have an awesome synergy. Assassin have +5 damage vs bleeding and inflict bleeding at gold. With the fire palace, a race gouvernance, the shrouded altar and irregular training irregular starts at gold medal. I checked and scoundreld starts as lesser shadowstalker. Sphinx being t3 irrégularités start at silver medal, have cause fear, the disk and inflict fera at gold (goes well with predatorous). For prolonged games, the deity military gouvernance grant infantry and irregular sprint and double critical chances.

    Pretty awesome to me

    #183244

    Aennor
    Member

    I loved Human Necromancer (also with Keeper of the Peace mastery, just for lulz), mainly because…y’know knighty stuff 😀
    Frostling Warlord is a beast! Ice Queen charger anyone? Also DAT MAMMOTHS!
    Tigran Rogue is another “Wow, that Rocks!” matter. Sphinks backstabber and that Succubus…really nice one. I also guess they can (ranging from “it’s nice” to “it’s mandatory) use “any alignment mastery” to make themselves even stronger

    For now, I’m not into theorycrafting, just mention from my recent experince

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