the meta (w.i.p)

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This topic contains 55 replies, has 24 voices, and was last updated by  MrDias 7 years, 4 months ago.

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    I asked some of the leading players to send in their current strats, the idea being to provide an easy reference to the existing meta, for people to refer to when talking about “how the game is played” and also for people looking for ideas on how to play.

    First up, Garresh:

    Read his link, it’s awesome. With some time and effort, we hope to put in replays to each strat, and expand it so that we can have Druid etc. experts

    Hopefully we’ll add a “Counters” Section, e.g. if under “Assassin rush” – how to spot signs of this, how to counter it. etc.

    The idea is to provide an easy reference point for people who want to know about the meta. It will ofcourse be updated as and when things change.

    So, if you know any good players, ask them to formulate their strats and send them in!

    @ Gloweye, if possible, I think the wiki would be a perfect home for this.


    Member much thought process involved..nice



    @ Gloweye, if possible, I think the wiki would be a perfect home for this.

    Or course, welcome on all accounts. just get over there and post them! Strategy is one of the largest missing parts on the Wikia IMO. My personal talents are more in the finding of ways to make it easy to find objective data, not in writing the strategy – I mostly wrote the current Combat page, and well, it’s not really a part I’m proud of.

    If you’re interested in making is easier accesible, you could use the Tooltips we got – basic use is (supposed to be) pretty easy, as by the following:

    • Abilities: {{Abil|ABILITY NAME}}
    • Units: {{Unit|UNIT NAME}}
    • Spells, Empire Upgrades: {{Spell|NAME}}

    . In the future, expanded unit stat display (like on the Rogue page), will get dropdown menu’s allowing you to input experience rank, race, and mystical city upgrades on the fly(Coding almost done…I hope.). If you somehow don’t feel like it or aren’t comfortable doing it, I should be able to insert them pretty easily later on.

    I’ll talk to Qwaeb/Dr_K about turning on user blogs – they might be useful. For now, just go to the page most appropriate(like Rogue), and add /Strategy to the URL, and type it in there.


    Dagoth Ur

    Wow, already love this topic.

    Good job Garresh!



    Aww, this is nice! I don’t suppose anyone has a Warlord guide incoming?



    Can we get a Dreadnought version of this? I play Dread but I freely admit that I’m not the best, I’ve got favored strategies, but I’d like it if I could see something to help me polish it more.



    Well Rogue is my specialty. I’m going to be helping and working on other guides, but any guide I make for other classes won’t have nearly the same amount of information. We need more specialists for this.



    I can share some of my Dreadnought knowledge, but like I said, I hardly qualify as an expert in the class. So it would be best if someone more knowledgeable could do it.


    Well Wintersend, send in what you have, and if someone else has better info, then that will supercede yours, but we have to start with something :).



    Might be a good idea for some of the classes that you haven’t found an expert for (I’m going to go out on a limb and predict Warlord) to start smaller threads to group think them. I’d also love to see some of these with the different races, though they probably wouldn’t be near as big.

    I’ve been wanting to see more on the meta as is, keep it up!



    Well races don’t really have strategies exactly. They have a few of course, like goblin csvalry, which are the most mobile on the strategic map. Or goblin swarm darter spam and proper formation usage. Or the fact that goblin water masters can really piss people off by spamming French the Land and perma-slowing people trying to outmaneuver them. Goblin cavalry spamming that spell can destroy roads and shut down enemy logistics and supply routes while being largely unaffected themselves. It may not be a huge strategy, but its a nice tactic they can have in their kit. Like death mastery blight empire.



    proper formation usage.

    This might also be a good subject…in some vid’s, Ive seen people use very tight formations, but in my vs AI experience I tend to favor more loosely on an open field, as to increase my amount of flanks – works especially well in small battles where you slightly outnumber the enemy. If the enemy groups up, you can flank all his units…

    Also, the distance….preferably just outside of his archers, but so that if he attacks, he strike from red, and preferably a pike unit in guard mode.



    True. Well different races and strategies favor different formations generally. Like irregular spam wants a spread line so you can fire all together and close into melee without tripping over each other. High powered archers prefer a very thought formation to protect each other. Depending on their durability, they may self-screen or need infantry backup. Siege or long range generally prefers to be close to the front while the heavy hitters stand on either side ready to charge and flank if the enemy comes to them. There’s tons more or course. Like I prefer to keep my flyers split up since they can charge flank backstab, I usually keep cavalry together. Depends heavily on style. There’s also “anti-formations” which is basically putting units in such a way that they screw enemy formations. Like hasting a shadow stalker into enemy archers and *not* attacking. Or positioning firstborn in guard mode within melee range of enemy infantry.


    how rather interesting: I especially liked the nazgul strategy (although I would call it the “Winged Nazgul” strategy, as the Nazgul would fight on horse as well), as it was much closer to a single player thing than I expected.

    I have two thoughts/questions.

    1). does it help to mix in a few gold earth elementals? Those units are even more champion happy than stalkers, since they not only get the extra hp buff, but also get stronger regrowth as they level (since regrowth functions as a percentage of hp). And rogues fortunately add a damage channel and mitigate poison weakness. The champion earth elementals are also virtually impervious to elemental damage because of their high resistance, and are immune to the fire counter for stalkers.

    It might also be psychologically annoying, as you wouldn’t bring blight damage to fight rogue units…

    2). what about degenerate? You say that the strategy can be nixed by the loss of even a few stalkers, so what is to prevent a person from degenerating the stalker, and then sending two tier 4 or even t-3’s with elemental damage to destroy it in one turn?


    @ Chrys, those types of questions are exactly why this compilation is a good idea imho.

    Also, send in your singleplayer strats as well.

    The game is overwhelmingly single player by the numbers, so I imagine there are a few people out there who’d be interested in knowing how to cope with several Emperor AIs who are going to outproduce you no matter what you do.



    100 hp + freeze on hit. I think they’ll be okay. But if not, engage cautiously. But ideally the goal is to rely on stealth instead of might. If they can field those T4s in every city you’re kinda boned. But if not, you keep circling and picking off cities and settlers and whatever is exposed until upkeep does your job for you. In multiplayer its harder to do but still fun and viable. I’ve been using it lately, although I recently faced a sorc who turtled in his throne for like 20 turns losing 8 good a turn, and there was no way I was punching through his shocking domain, lightning enchanted walls, and his lightning weakness battlefield spell. Even with 4 stacks of stalkers. Lightning is scary. Anyways eventually he left and I attacked. I was up in cities anyway.

    As for the earth elementals, that’s a major no. The goal is for your entire stack to be invisible. Elementals ruin that.


    Prodigal Sun

    As for the earth elementals, that’s a major no. The goal is for your entire stack to be invisible. Elementals ruin that.

    I’m raising a hand for Sorc here. 😉



    I doubt I’m getting something that big done tonight but I’ll put a few of the more important things I’ve learned in.

    First of, I recommend getting adept wild magic for the mobility and damage variations the lesser elementals provide and Degenerate since so much of your damage will be fire which is commonly resisted and some units get immunity.

    This first tactic of mine is my favorite but is harder to do now since flame tank and golem have switched positions, although it does allow a useful variant.

    I call it the Flame Tank rush. It’s risky but has high payoff if it works. You need to do some scouting of your opponent before hand so you know what their resistances look like. If they have lots of elders or an abundance of Draconian towns, don’t even try it. Too many things will be immune to fire.

    The more feasible variant of it is to mix in a few golems with the tanks to help with fire immune units you have to be careful not to catch them in your tanks attacks and protect the tanks if an enemy gets too close. This is much safer generally unless the enemy has abysmal resistance so now I use it more.

    Another good tactic for capturing AI cities, especially if they have a low archer count defending the city but lots of melee troops, is to build a stack or so of scout drones to send in with the main force and send them in first. The AI’s melee troops will almost always gather around the spy drones and attack, even if they only get one attack, and will continue gathering around the nearest drone until it is dead. It is not unheard of to catch 5 enemy units in one death explosion.

    Final suggestion for the night, buff your Leader’s defense, health, and resistance after grabbing some party buffs including repair machine for the overland heal. By doing this and getting some good items, he should be able to get over 20 defense and be more than able to tank for your more fragile mechanical units and heal any damage that they take in short order.



    I am new to the game and some nice detailed strategies on the wiki would be a good read. Thanks in advance.

    Some strategies about attacking well defended cities would be particularly welcomed. I usually tend to auto attack when too many units are involved in siege cause I am not very confident compared to battles in the open.



    If you get overwhelmed when fighting big siege battles, one thing that I’ve found that helps is to treat it no as one massive battle but as 3 smaller ones. Not as efficient but can help if the player is panicked by the number of units involved. Assuming 3 stack vs 3 stack city battle, treat it as three separate 1v1 battles and just move whatever forces you have left from each of those to the battles which are still going on.

    Once you become confident with that you can work up to treating the siege as one large battle. I still do this myself at times if the battle uses close to the max number of troops, except that I’ll rearrange the groups some before getting into archer range so that the match ups are more in my favor than if I just charged.

    While this generally carries more risks than doing it as one large battle, it is still safer than doing auto combat.



    Using rogue or theocrat early game, you can steal heroes from your rivals with charm or convert, Why? Cause Bringer of Godwill.

    You can forge boots with bringer of godwill and send them to any rogue, dread, warlord or sorcerer, then, you will have a 0 unkeep inspire loyality up.

    If you play theocrat and want a brainless tactic, build full stacks with exalted units and with a hero with 5 of them per stack (8g unkeep per exalted), and you will have a zerg army just for rushing like a boss.

    Another brainless tactic, is to build a theocrat laeder/hero with divine justicars (lvl 11 unlockable), and bring 5 strong units with it, and feel free to rush like a boss.

    If you play vs a sorc and you are camping for any of their cities, dont attack their cities, just gather your troops near their cities and the sorc will attack you, and trust me, their units are really powa defending cities, but they are useless on an open field combat.

    Bulk up a dread hero with ionvention lvl 5+ and mana core, forge items with fire protection and give them to your dread hero, with that, you can win many battles with ease, yeah, its another cheap tactic.

    Playing rogue, you can just forge peace with everyone and research revolt, network and deception, if you can achieve to learn the 3, you can just see how the map goes wild with rival armies deserting, and yeah, you can hire deserter´s troops.

    Learn how to affect morale, 3 battles lost in a row -150, lost city -100, city revolt -50 and you can get an elite yeti (most of the troops doesnt likes artic) -200, undead curse -200, you can really win a game just by playing well the morale.

    Undead dwelings are easy to protect when you have the obelisk and stacks with casters, or you can lure rival troops to attack your undead dweling, and plus if you play theocrat with hallowed domain (-5 or -6 res), they just are like paper vs casters.

    Learn to use item forge, and you can get pleasant surprises.



    I like all the units which can convert, charm or befriend animal. I find them so useful especially at the beginning when you lack stacks and you need to build up some to conquer nodes. With some skills lowering resistance, it is just an awesome way to get units for free. This is my main tactic at the moment and that’s why I like rogue, theocrat and druid the most.

    Divine justicar is just cheated in my opinion. I first encountered it with the goblin theocrat in the first campaign. You just put some good units with him and you auto attack any stack on the map. Awesome to clear nodes and get rid of wandering independents. But too no brainer in my opinion whereas convert or charm is not automatic and you can have some big bad outcome from battles if none are successful.



    The problem is that most of those can’t occur until mid-late game. Also, for most of them there is a counter or something that the strategy itself will cause that can create major issues for the player.

    The sorc one is just against AI, a player wouldn’t attack in open combat if they knew you couldn’t beat them in siege but they couldn’t beat you in the open field.

    On the Dread destabilized mana core, your opponent just needs to send a few dracoian elders or other fire immune unit at you and the dread won’t be able to win in a straight up fight because too much was put into casting that one spell.

    Theo exalted rush, you can get slaughtered by units with good aoe because exalted don’t have the most raw combat power and zerg always relies on numbers over individual unit quality and/or felxibility and is thus very vulnerable to aoe (That’s why firebats and siege tanks were so useful). Still probably the best one, but I wouldn’t give it good odds against a sorc or dread, especially if they get high-tier spells before you can do much damage.

    Rouge, it will get everyone to focus on you and send others into a dispelling frenzy if it becomes that big of an issue so unless you can do enough in that short a period to give you the advantage over all remaining players, odds are you’re in trouble.

    And finally, the undead tactic relies on you getting the dwelling in the first place and not inadvertently becoming good. They are also very vulnerable to theo and humans.



    And since the edit button disappeared I will stay this here instead.

    I may be wrong on some of these, but frequently brainless tactics are pretty easily countered if you have decent scouting. And as I learned the hard way, relying on one damage type is begging for disaster. + relying on dwellings is finicky at best, doubly so if they rely on maintaining a given alignment.



    Well. those “tactics” are tested with emperor AI´s, and they work very smooth. Of course at PvP you must use brain.

    Mana core can really piss off any sorc, they often build supports, and if you wait till end of turn to attack, your mana cast got a higher chance to being not dispelled due to AI often get rid of their casting points at the end of turn. Of course, you will bring 5 or more units with your dread hero to balance the fight just in case you encounter a fire resistant or high hp unit.

    Its a funny “fact”, the system often fights you at undead dwelings, sometimes forgeting cities, same case with your capital city.

    Yeah, rogues will get a dispel feast, but you have at least 2 or 3 turns to enjoy deception+revolt+network, and if you know how to play the morale, that little period of time, can be the key.

    I dont like to use early game tactics vs AI, cause AI is not mature to bring you a real challenge, PvP is different, but vs AI, just wanna see them grown and fight with a fair challenge.


    As for the earth elementals, that’s a major no. The goal is for your entire stack to be invisible. Elementals ruin that.

    so this strategy is mutually exclusive with age of deception?

    I imagine there are a few people out there who’d be interested in knowing how to cope with several Emperor AIs who are going to outproduce you no matter what you do.

    Well, I’ll say two things are critical to understand. The first is “C vs. C”, or “Cheese vs. Cheating” and “Neo vs. Agent Smith”.

    Emperor AI’s, if you let them develop, have ridiculous resource cheats, and will have more units of higher tier than you do for much of the game. Of course, you as a player know some kind of “cheese” strategies that work really well, but that the AI has no real response to.

    The first is chaos rift/hellfire/mana core. A human realizes that they can send a few (or one) unit that is immune/protected to the element, and then wreak havoc with the enemy.

    The AI also doesn’t understand that it needs to retreat when attacking, even if the advantage is in its favor, when such spells come online.

    the second is the “super hero/super unit development”. The AI doesn’t realize that a single gold earth elemental can fight (with bless or its own stone skin) a virtually unlimited number of manticore riders, racial t-3’s, or anything without a lot of elemental damage.

    It did recently use slow on my gold earth elemental, which is an encouraging development.

    you can do the same thing if you have a hero with life stealing, tireless, defender, and regrowth. That hero will plow through bio units until judgement day.

    So the AI cheats, but you can cheese. Of course, you should only do this as a last resort (or for your own amusement), as I think it is a fairly cheap game mode (like abusing stealth in skyrim).

    Then there is Neo vs. Agent Smith. The AI might cheat, and have more cp/resources than you, but it only bends the rules of the game, and doesn’t break them. You, as neo, have the ability to either cheese or, more nobly, apply astute positioning and tactics to win.

    As I observed on The Black Knight’s thread, the city defense spells are very important for Archdruids/Sorcerers (also dreadnoughts) defending their cities.

    As I understand it in mp, the spells (except for the Archdruid poison domain, hallowed domain, and the sorcerer’s glyphs of warding) are almost always boondoggles that humans will simply avoid.

    They are like the ROC’s modern tank division in the Chinese civil war: impressive, but easily avoided (peasants built a million tank traps around them, making them useless).

    You can also think of these spells as the Maginot Line: they do actually work well, but only if the enemy attacks them directly (like hitler wanted to). So the AI is hitler, but players aren’t.

    Therefore, these city defense spells work as intended. They are “shields” that allow non production classes to use their mobile units as “swords” to remain competitive in the late game.

    then there is the converse situation (primarily when you are fighting sorcerers, but also for warlords vs. Archdruids).

    The AI resource cheats allow them to have the domain protection spells up everywhere, making their empires very difficult for less magical classes to attack. It is also hard to dispel their enchantments, as they usually reinforce up to 200.

    Consider, for instance, a Dreadnought moving in on an Age of Magic sorcerer with a decent garrison all enchanted city (so some priests, apprentices, a few lesser summons, a horror or two, racial t-3’s, and a whole lot of angry cp).

    It is pretty daunting: you don’t have much of a chance of disjuncting, and even if you have one leader stack, you still take a lot of shock damage, and you can’t protect your other stacks.

    and if the enemy does static electricity, well, you are pretty much out of luck unless you cheese the AI.

    An alternative to cheesing is to bring your armored cavalry corps out of mothballs: unicorn riders, knights, and to a lesser extent boar riders, are great sturdy cavalry units. You can usually go right up a road into the enemy city without stopping to get shocked, and unicorn riders are priest slayers.

    knights and boar riders require a rogue hero with group wall climbing, or a hasted dreadnought hero with sabotage.

    As a warlord, you are kind of out of luck: none of your class units are good at this type of thing (monster hunters don’t wall climb). You either need boosted unicorn riders, gryphon riders, very happy halfling eagle riders, or dwelling units.

    However, as long as the enemy doesn’t have dome of protection up, you have another option. You can cast dread siege, and then plant a lot of warbreed in the domain.

    Warbreed are immune to the glyphs (because regrowth cancels it out), and their presence can make the city revolt when combined with dread siege.

    The same thing is true for archdruid enchanted cities. This isn’t a problem for other classes, because the Archdruid AI doesn’t play very well. It builds too many shaman and trebuchets, and doesn’t have enough horned gods and monsters.

    now shaman aren’t actually that bad: their poor reputation comes from the popularity of dwarves in mp, and the fact that fearsome/inflict stun/static shield/stunning touch work as more effective ways to control unit movement than a personal entangle that leaves you open to flanking.

    But yes, unless you have draconian shaman, the only purpose is to use their entangle strategically when fighting independents, and eventually get them to gold for the heal.

    The AI figures “hey, mobile t-3 class unit, me want many!” most classes can ignore the blight damage and just beat them up in melee.

    warlords, unless dwarf or goblin, have a problem with this. Their units usually have fairly low resistance and no extra protection. They are thus very hurt by poison domain, and should fear garrisoned shaman.


    It may be worth listing all your “cheese” strategies.

    Who knows, maybe one day the ai can be specifically coded to counter them ;).


    @ Yelok, can you be more specific?

    Learn how to affect morale,

    Learn to use item forge, and you can get pleasant surprises.

    Learn what exactly? HOW do you affect morale?



    To be fair, he at least partly answered your first point, if you had copied the full quote.

    Learn how to affect morale, 3 battles lost in a row -150, lost city -100, city revolt -50 and you can get an elite yeti (most of the troops doesnt likes artic) -200, undead curse -200, you can really win a game just by playing well the morale.

    He should have been more detailed in regards to the Item Forge, though, I agree. If he was going to bring it up, that is.



    Well here is some dread tips for anyone who cares:

    1)Bombing squads (Lots of drones) are good at killing lone high tier units. Don’t even bother fighting unless your drones outnumber the opposition (Drones should benefit from armored upgrades at least :|). If you think about destroying a wall with them then here is this thought, why don’t you just send them to occupy the archers\damage them and have something else open the path.

    2)You excel in open field battles. Musketeers are amazing when they can abuse cover to hide then kill someone. Flametanks hate all kinds of cover (Severly lowers damage output). Golems can defend units behind them for a long time. Keep cannons away though!

    3)Always have engineers. Sabotage is great vs other dreads, machines and walls. Reload pretty much helps all units (Use on flame tanks on first turn to bypass the limit in open field battle). Then there is fire pellets, this ability can be used to turn everyone to face the engineer Before they get demolished by high damage flank attacks (Flanking flametank is a very scary tactic).

    *Learn the best reload order for which situation. Move musketeers before reloading their guns so the engineer isn’t too far behind. If there is 2 cannons reload the one that has to shoot sooner. Always have a golem\pikeman to protect them from flank attacks\fliers.

    4)Experiment with a lot of different formations. Unlike other classes having very bad formations will seriously reduce the damage taken\dealt ratio you can dish out.
    *Never have 2 musketeers stand next to each other, you don’t want one unit to block both with a single guard mode. In fact try to shoot from the max range before damage reduction kicks in to minimize the enemy melee damage.

    *Cut a group in half for the “flanking” formation. The enemy will have to either split or focus on one group, It doesn’t matter which one the enemy chooses you generally hold the advantage.
    *Send golems\pikemen in guard mode to block enemy ranged units or a path. They are very sturdy and their attacks hurt a lot. Not to mention being tireless (Don’t try this vs units with sabotage, golems might die in one turn!)

    *Your machines generally have “Reinforced” to lower enemies ranged damage vs them, Units can hide behind to lower the damage taken.
    *Look at which enemy units are the most dangerous to your formations and kill them first. Kill mounted archers with a flame tank. Have an engineer blunder grouped enemies and they’ll generally fall in critical hp mode (Can be one shot by muskets).

    5)Have a builder, seriously our mobility is very bad so lets lower that by building roads to move on! This is also better than wasting 10 points on the leader to get “tree demolisher”. Try to get the builder early enough so by midgame you have some roads to move on.

    *Get advanced logistics so we move faster than enemies who don’t bother getting it on our roads!

    6)Dampning field is for defending and spell jammer is for offensive. You don’t want to give the enemy free spell jammers to easily take your stuff. Raze them when their use is done. Always pre-cast them when deciding to siege a city. (Enemy won’t get time to think of a trade or sell walls so they can easily take the city later)

    7)Support units have true sight. If playing against rogues\sorcerers you’ll want some of them running around. (Try to have ones with a different damage channel than fire, so enemies can’t just get fire protection vs them and your units).

    8)Units die in combat, never get attached to units. we can get level 3 musketeers from cities with a grandpalace\ranged training ground. These can kill gold level units easily. (Just don’t go over-confident and let warlords cast Global Assault :p)
    *Don’t happily lose golems and flame tanks though, those cost a decent amount to build :P.

    9)Did I say always have engineers?

    10)You forgot to build an engineer for every 3 units that need reloading did you.

    I’ll just justify the spheres I like to use even if they might not be “optimal” :
    1)Earth : Stone skin turns golems into walking walls. Turns flame tanks into abominable machines. Turns engineers into less biscuit units.. what not to like.

    We aren’t afraid to live underground and getting Domain of earth is nice. -In fact try to get stuff going underground, mobile classes aren’t so much impossible to catch up with here.

    Stoning is kinda mixed bag, The spell is almost completely outclassed by all other nukes (They are either very cheap = cost effective. Or high damage yet still lower cost. And yes why fireball can target gates while this cannot?

    Earthquake and Regen walls are kinda supercharged modes for our spells (Forgeblast and repair fortification).

    Air : Oh this. This one has a hilarious amount of synergy that cannot be denied.

    Seeker Enchantment : Musketeers shoot for max damage from max range? am sold! Oh wait it can affect almost everything with a ranged attack to make them better than elf longbows. Very good spell!

    Haste : All our units are crazy powerful when hasted. Move between enemies to ruin their formation and get free flanks? This spell is perfect for flame tanks. You can also use it with zyphers+tower structure to defend a city vs even graveyard independents!

    Zypher : Op lategame with forgeblast\earthquake.

    Some leader skills to never ignore :
    1)Lightning rod banners\forge aprons etc. These give 40% resistance to the whole team.
    2)Armor bonuses and hp bonuses. read 3 to realize why.
    3)Flamebomb + Immolation will allow you to kill a whole city! Double so if you have stone skin or seeker musket shots.
    4)Repair machine+Rapid Reload. Do 3) but with a cannon\Juggernaut. Immolating flamebombs still ruin the enemy armor\morale so your units ohko them. Don’t ignore 3)!!
    5)Suicide Bomb Squad : Get if you want your main stack units to die.. Which is almost never. Oh well this is good if your main stack is outclassed -The enemy wants to block your units, so they take loads of damage.
    6)Clear trees : Don’t get juggernauts have it and you can do the same with the builder you should have anyway! This isn’t worth 10 points!

    Extra stuff :
    1)Retreating from combat isn’t a shame, if you can salavage even 1-2 units then do it. You’ll only feed enemies XP otherwise. Surrender if this is impossible.
    2)Haste+Seeker a musketeer to get a rocket buggy. you’ll recognize this if you played C&c. You’ll get to shoot through cover for max damage with very few units being able to fight back. Can outrun almost everything. When engaged can freely move back and shoot -no attack of opportunity.
    3)You don’t need to cheese SP using these tips! They work just fine in hotseat so I think they can be employeed in multiplayer as well!

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