July 16, 2015 at 21:17 #217124
I’ve tried using Underground layer in my random maps again after the rebalancing that Triumph did, but I still don’t find it enjoyable. It just adds too much ground to cover and makes traversal a chore. Since you are limited to specific entrances which may fall in the territory of another leader or be far away.
The underground is cool, but does it really need to cover the same area as the land? I’d much prefer if the underground was consisted of entrances to smaller “pockets” of cool stuff; a powerful wandering army with great loot, or an amazing city location, resources, or a dwelling, and so on. With the underground generally being more difficult to fight through than the land stuff.
It would encourage me to search them out and not feel overwhelmed by an entirely new map the same size as the one I just left. Give the Underground a “open dungeon” feel that you can dip into for some cool stuff: if you can survive the threats, and then leave to find another entrance for more cool stuff.
How’s everyone finding it atm? Do you generally play with it enabled?July 16, 2015 at 23:14 #217134
I, for one, like the new underground much better. You can fiddle with custom map settings to tailor it more to your liking.
The confined cavernous network you want is what the underground used to be. No fun at all, just rock cavern walls and very few city founding sites.
And now that the underground has no move penalty it’s not so slow to traverse. It used to be 6 move per hex if you didn’t have Cave Crawling, now Cave Crawling gives a bonus to the standard 4-move per hex. Still, use Dwarf and Goblin mercenaries to scout.
Isolated underground pockets were used in Campaigns, and they were a pain as dead ends make Armies take forever to get back into action. I prefer mobility and being able to send expeditionary armies in different directions establishing pockets of influence – which the new Underground is perfectly suited for.
The new one is spacious, has lots of dirt walls for your Prospectors. There are dwellings and cities as well as treasure sites and city founding sites with MCU combinations. There’s more traversible land than lava/water even on Island-type maps, but there are berries interspersed so you can build a road network if you want faster travel.
If you really want a fast game and not bother with the underground, concentrate on scouting out your enemies or plant forts next to underground entrances to deny entry to others and defend against rampaging independents (adjacent hex rule).
In SP the AI is usually slow to enter underground (turn 40+ even on Emperor) if it starts topside so you don’t have to clear it unless you want the advantage in land and resources.July 18, 2015 at 12:18 #217411
Seamus the BoldMember
I really love te new underground. and agree with most that SiaFu said.
And YES underground definately has to be the same size than above map. everything else would be just ridiculous, in my opinion (do you imagine this as XL surface has a L underground with the same center). as for space. I think you can adjust the underground map to less space when adding more walls of any type during map creation.
It just adds too much ground to cover
If there is to much ground I think smaller maps migth be the cure.
I understand the type of underground you want but as a player that loves to play mainly underground (yes I mostly play dwarves and goblins) and just uses surface the same way as you seem to use underground, I am completely against a smaller scaled or even pocketed underground. And how would those smaller underground work if surface is switched off?July 18, 2015 at 21:28 #217525
More underground-specific settings: everybody wins.
* Except the poor joker that has to code them.July 18, 2015 at 21:42 #217528
We don’t play with underground at the moment because of the same reasons Indrid wrote of.
Adding an option in map generation like “add litte underground pouches” would be nice!July 20, 2015 at 08:17 #217694
I agree with the Original poster as well. I would like an option to create a more cavern-like underground. I’m still hoping there will be another expansion with special attention to the underground.July 20, 2015 at 10:04 #217711
I think you can limit the size of the underground on random maps, no? If you want it small it’ll be just smaller caves and such. I am happy with the current settings. And yes, it adds a new layer to explore, I always liked it.
Though, maybe units with Tunneling should get the ability – or just the Builder – to create new entrances/exists to/from the underground.July 21, 2015 at 19:06 #218083
Seamus the BoldMember
Though, maybe units with Tunneling should get the ability – or just the Builder – to create new entrances/exists to/from the underground.
Remember that this idea came up a couple of times. I think its quite interesting but then you should also be able to seal/”raze” entrences. At least temporarily!July 21, 2015 at 21:55 #218125
So, the underground entrance to my foes lair in my last game in the tournament was defended by 3 full stacks of tier 1-2 units.
Shifting my 1 stack into three stacks would have rendered me toast.
I considered that entrance “sealed”.
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