Theocrat endgame

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This topic contains 1,253 replies, has 52 voices, and was last updated by  Ericridge 6 years, 12 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 31 through 60 (of 1,254 total)
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  • #203330

    Zaskow
    Member

    Well said.

    #203335

    Bob5
    Member

    I prefer to use Cadavers as cannon fodder and free scouts. Reanimators are pretty enough to support you army in good health.

    Cadavers only work for a few battles, they don’t last or drain massive amounts of heal undead power. As scouts they’re slower than Lost Souls due to not having floating and they also can’t scout far because they simply die with time. Cadavers can only do immediate surroundings scouting but nothing more, they can’t do any scouting further away to find enemies or something because they die after like 4 turns on their own.

    #203337

    Zaskow
    Member

    Cadavers only work for a few battles, they don’t last or drain massive amounts of heal undead power. As scouts they’re slower than Lost Souls due to not having floating and they also can’t scout far because they simply die with time. Cadavers can only do immediate surroundings scouting but nothing more, they can’t do any scouting further away to find enemies or something because they die after like 4 turns on their own.

    For free creating and 2 mana/turn this is good deal.

    #203465

    Hatmage
    Member

    I return to my perennial claim that Theocrat needs a T3 bruiser; it’s the only class other than Dreadnought (which isn’t a melee army) that doesn’t have it.

    Theocrats deliberately buff most racial T3 bruisers with their empire upgrades. Mighty meek wouldn’t be nearly as good if theocrat armies weren’t largely made of beefy low tier units.

    An idea I’ve had floating around my head for a while is a theocrat spell that makes reinforced targets vulnerable to spirit damage, but has a much greater effect on walls than machines. Something like 20-40% weakness to all reinforced targets and an aditional 80% weakness to walls, and grant devout units wall crushing. That would give you a spell that could, in a pinch, expensively weaken machines, but was mainly there to bring down the walls of Jericho.

    #203493

    AbednegoJC
    Member

    You guys are wrong about dread vs theo matchup.

    Yes, dread will kill theo in any direct combat, but theo is muchmore mobile… and actually I think Im not bad player and not bad dreadnought and theocrat killed me endgame.. I had about 10 cities… and I was able to guard them with my 3 powerful armies…. but I wasnt able to expand or do anything else.. so while theo has several stacks of exalted and summons prepared to attack any weak guarded city, he expanded and when he reached 30 cities I was dead.

    So yes, theo is weak vs dread when it comes to direct fight, but it doesnt need to. Exalted is excellent lategame unit for harras.

    #203496

    Zaskow
    Member

    while theo has several stacks of exalted and summons prepared

    Where were your racial fliers?

    #203502

    Bouh
    Member

    Where were your racial fliers?

    Killed by exalted ?

    This thread is ridiculous. Like theocrat versus dreadnought victory should be handed to the theocrat on a platter. I hate this kind of request, moreover when there already are many tools (armageddon, racial units, specializations).

    #203505

    AbednegoJC
    Member

    @Yaskow:

    I was orc.

    of course I had improved movement on roads and roads everywhere (because I had great eco, like 1000/turn …but it wasnt enough.

    Im just saying that compare some combat abilities sometimes isnt enough to see what highend is better.

    #203509

    Zaskow
    Member

    Killed by exalted ?

    Impossible after patch.

    armageddon, racial units, specializations

    Why then other classes have good option against machines WITHOUT ultimate spell, racial units and specializations?

    #203517

    Hatmage
    Member

    The traditional Theo good option against machines is the same option the warlord has – cavalry, coupled with the fact your foes don’t heal. Theo’s add to that the ability to smite engineers into small stains on the ground, and excelence in harming high tier units using cheap infantry and archers. This does mean using racial units, but no class should totally replace racial units – even the warlord relies on supports to counter stealthy and incorporeal foes.

    The matchup is only truly bad in sieges, where the melee-centric theocrat actually relies on spirit damage and abilities, hence my suggestion of something 90% for sieges and 10% for machines.

    #203536

    Bouh
    Member

    Why then other classes have good option against machines WITHOUT ultimate spell, racial units and specializations?

    What do you call a good option ? Scoundrels-that-get-splattered-by-dozens ? Hunters ? Banshees ?

    Bouh wrote:

    Killed by exalted ?

    Impossible after patch.

    You obviously dislike exalted. That doesn’t mean they are bad.

    And again, what about races’ T3 ? Specializations ? Holy boxes ? What in this game is better than armageddon to get rid of machines in late game actualy ?

    What if you play the strategic game instead of focusing on the tactical game ? What about the initial advantage you built in early game over the dreadnought ?

    Why should you have a class option to counter machines ?

    Next time I’ll be rude.

    #203546

    LordTyrael
    Member

    You guys are wrong about dread vs theo matchup.

    Yes, dread will kill theo in any direct combat, but theo is muchmore mobile… and actually I think Im not bad player and not bad dreadnought and theocrat killed me endgame.. I had about 10 cities… and I was able to guard them with my 3 powerful armies…. but I wasnt able to expand or do anything else.. so while theo has several stacks of exalted and summons prepared to attack any weak guarded city, he expanded and when he reached 30 cities I was dead.

    So yes, theo is weak vs dread when it comes to direct fight, but it doesnt need to. Exalted is excellent lategame unit for harras.

    Exalted is countered by a few stationary Golems, so you can’t harras against someone that knows this. Yes with Armaggedon it is possible. Stunning touch helped but now exalted is only expensive and not a good harraser.

    #203551

    LordTyrael
    Member

    The answer is, that every single class and race have its own weaknesses

    Not nearly to the degree of the Dreadnought/Theocrat matchup. That is truly ludicrously in favor of the Dreadnought. Now even more so due to the Exalted nerf.

    IMO the problem is actually the design of Dreadnoughts. They have one too many Machine units. One of the T3s should have been a humanoid unit that is capable of being affected by spirit and blight abilities. Specifically, Convert/Seduce. Too little too late there, though/

    “Pick Water Adapt” is not a solution. Rot does not begin to cover the gap of having almost none of your offensive abilities work. The issue is the older design of Theocrats, hailing from an era when there were no spirit debuffs in the game at all except Armageddon. There isn’t any other class matchup where after the middle part of the game the only way to really succeed is to race for the end game spell. It’s really noticeable with this matchup and kind of ridiculous. I can beat the AI, but only by making a beeline.

    Also, although everyone has heard me say it before: Exalted are very poor units. The main people who think Resurgence is amazing are people who don’t play Theocrat that often as a main class. Exalted take up a space in the Theocrat lineup that *should* be where they get a counter to Machines and other Theocrats, based on the progression of those classes. Instead they get a nuisance unit that fails everywhere an Evangelist already would and results in a slaughter versus Dreads and the dullest, most boring combat possible with other Theocrats.

    Well put, exactly how i feel. +1

    #203558

    LordTyrael
    Member

    What in this game is better than armageddon to get rid of machines in late game actualy ?

    Cast Armaggedon, the dreadnought is not countered by it and maintains 20% spirit protection, don’t cast it and lose, very unbalanced. I cant think of any other class that is so dependent on the final spell. The problem in this matchup is that Dreadnought have 2 powerful T3 units immune to spirit damage and meanwhile Theocrat must put his faith in a T2 units and T4 shrines. T3 Theocrat is not good against Dreadnought, no convert works on machines and is short range killd by the games most powerful long range artillery. Exalted have weak defense and health dies just the same. Crusader can last a while but is a t2, can’t expect him to deal with T3 fully upgraded machines supported by T4 machines and golems defeats most crusaders anyways in melee, he dies.

    T3 racial is the only semi workable option i’ve found except for dwarf class units, only Firstborns can survive the endgame Dreadnought machine onslaught reliable out of the T3 racial units.

    #203572

    Bouh
    Member

    Cast Armaggedon, the dreadnought is not countered by it and maintains 20% spirit protection, don’t cast it and lose, very unbalanced.

    Going from immune to 20% is definitely a big difference. And you won’t lose to dreadnought without armegeddon if you are not stubornly attached to the strategies that don’t work against a dreadnought without armageddon. But I guess adapting to the ennemy is too hard for some people.

    #203573

    LordTyrael
    Member

    This thread is ridiculous. Like theocrat versus dreadnought victory should be handed to the theocrat on a platter. I hate this kind of request, moreover when there already are many tools (armageddon, racial units, specializations).

    Oh i didn’t see this before i posted, i see now that you’re are trolling? Man this is a very rude and very wrong, how can Theocrat have an easy time with Dreanought? On a platter? Good laugh ha!

    #203578

    LordTyrael
    Member

    The traditional Theo good option against machines is the same option the warlord has – cavalry, coupled with the fact your foes don’t heal. Theo’s add to that the ability to smite engineers into small stains on the ground, and excelence in harming high tier units using cheap infantry and archers. This does mean using racial units, but no class should totally replace racial units – even the warlord relies on supports to counter stealthy and incorporeal foes.

    The matchup is only truly bad in sieges, where the melee-centric theocrat actually relies on spirit damage and abilities, hence my suggestion of something 90% for sieges and 10% for machines.

    I want to this to work out but i had little success with Theocrat cavalry so far, only managed to win once with human knight but the Dreadnought player made a critical error and split the stacks so i took advantage from that, otherwise i would not had won. Warlord have T4 cavalry in the endgame and those things fly around with 140hp and do big damage numbers! Against the endgame machine onslaught even 140 hp can go down fast, the area of effect is hard to escape from massed juggernats/cannons/flame tanks.

    What cavalry strategy do you use against the endgame typical dreadnought army?

    #203583

    Bouh
    Member

    @lordtyrael : let’s be more specific please. What race and specialization do you play ? What kind of game ? What settings ?

    Armageddon is not the only option for theocrat against dreadnought, and it’s normal if the matchup is in favor of the dreadnought. You are asking to basicaly remove the machine’s strength against theocrat, which is not desirable. Theocrat shouldn’t have an easy against everything. You are asking to simplify the game for you without providing good reasons.

    It’s normal in a complex strategy game to have good and bad matchup. You have tools to overcome these difficulties. If you don’t want to use them, it’s *your* fault, not a game problem.

    #203594

    Hatmage
    Member

    Full disclosure, I haven’t played Theocrat since exalted lost stunning touch.

    Firstly, if you don’t have to fight an endgame dreadnought army, don’t fight it. You are more mobile than a dreadnought. Secondly, dreadnoughts are bad at dispelling buffs. Touch of faith, mighty meek (not applicable to knights, griffons), and, of course, absorb pain will let you get in reach cannons and flame tanks with cavalry, and once you are in melee against cannons and flame tanks, or musketeers and engineers, charge will do the job nicely enough, especially if you either buff with mighty meek or use human knights.

    Thirdly, if you can kill engineers and dreadnoughts in an army, it cannot heal. And you can smite, convert or otherwise spiritually attack engineers and dreadnoughts. This means that hit and run tactics with archers, supports and cavalry can do a lot of damage cheaply, once the groundwork is laid. Even exalted are somewhat useful here.

    Fourthly, if given a choice between fighting behind your own walls or in an open field, you may actually want the open field. Dreadnoughts are heavily favoured by starting far away from your walls, and you aren’t really helped by them.

    Most dreadnought class units are higher tier than crusaders, cavalry or racial archers, so you can get a lot of mileage out of mighty meek on any unit that has a chance to do damage (+6 damage and defence on an archer will add up if the opponent doesn’t kill it quickly, so put it where they can kill it quickly but cannot hit your other units with splash damage if they do). You also have the best war by attrition toolset in the game, and dreadnoughts are highly vulnerable to attrition, poor at reinforcing armies due to slow movement, and cannot always defend their cities against faster foes.

    None of this changes the fact you really want armageddon before juggernauts reach your cities, but generally, you want to play the matchup like you were a rogue, only attacking when it suits you. Hence, as I have said, what you really need is a spell or unit that lets you win sieges with dreads, because sometimes you have to fight sieges with dreads, and that is the biggest problem with the matchup.

    #203597

    LordTyrael
    Member

    Ok, i play with standard settings, my prefered playstyle is inclined towards multi cultural peace keeper or grey guard usually with creation adept. Starting race nowdays is human, draconian and dwarf sometimes goblin/orc but with shadowborn mono cultur.

    What machine strength am i asking to be removed? I only put forth the idea to make Theocrat endgame less dependent on Armaggedon, like i wrote i don’t mind hard match at all ups, i dislike how the Theocrat endgame looks like vs dreadnought and i don’t see the balance of a typical hard matchup, like Necromancer vs Theocrat get more tools.

    Stunning touch was one of the few class options against dreadnought except for Armaggedon and got removed.

    #203600

    Capirex
    Member

    It surprises me to see how much exalted are underrated (altrough i agree that after the last patch they became worse and need a moderate fix, stunning touch was a useful ability but didn’t fit the theocrat), especially by people that play mostly theocrat.

    It gives the class the strategical flexibility that the theocrat on the whole lacks. If it would be changed with a tank type, strategically slower unit imho theocrat would become worse in a lot of situations.

    As many have said the true weakness of the dreadnaought machines is their mobility, and on the top of that they are the best class for defending/assaulting cities.
    Still they can’t be everywere and superior mobility can be used to strike their economy instead of their late game armies. It’s an approach that doesn’t guarantee victory but is certainly viable for the theocrat.

    #203609

    LordTyrael
    Member

    You are more mobile than a dreadnought. Secondly, dreadnoughts are bad at dispelling buffs.

    When i’d like my units to have support with touch of faith and heal/dispel my armies will not move faster or be more mobile than dreadnought… dread casts great mobilization and i’m the slow one, now dread is faster and alot stronger. Argmaggedon is a must at this point but it wont be an easy battle with Argmaggedon anyways. Exalted harras with holy war becomes viable with Argmaggedon at least. Dispell i have bad luck then i guess because my enemy always have priests, human or dwarves! I’ve used Cardinal culling with grey guard adept but it’s going to be nerfed vs priests.

    I’ve been forced to play rogue style with pure cavalry stacks before with exalted support, i will try to go full out on this strategy and see how it works.

    Hence, as I have said, what you really need is a spell or unit that lets you win sieges with dreads, because sometimes you have to fight sieges with dreads, and that is the biggest problem with the matchup.

    I agree siege is insanely hard, trebuchets have a fire weakness also vs mortars. I’ve tried seeker/shrine of smithing strategy but shrines still have fire weakness.

    I had an idea, what about changing the shrine bolts to lightning/spirit? This machine seems to be lightning aligned with upgrades and abilities, static shield and divine vengeance, in turn maybe add 40% fire weakness instead of 20?

    #203613

    quo
    Member

    You are more mobile than a dreadnought.

    How? Because of Exalted? Exalted have exactly as many MP as Eagle Riders and Gryphons but fewer HP or stats to keep them alive. If the Dread fields some of those, they come along with shotguns to outrange you even still.

    Theocrats need Support units. 28 MP, no Flight, no faster or slower than a Dread. There is no “Great Mobility” spell for Theocrat. Theocrats are one of the slowest moving armies in the game sans racial units everyone gets. I’m actually fine with that, but it makes me scratch about your statement. I think what you really mean to say is “Well you’re weaker than a Dread in almost every way so keep running,” not that Theocrats have any particular speed advantage.

    Thirdly, if you can kill engineers and dreadnoughts in an army, it cannot heal.

    That’s got nothing to do with Theocrat v Dread matchup being weighted hugely in favor of the Dread. I could say “If you want to stop a Theocrat from healing, kill his Supports.” But that’s not an argument supporting a balance proposition, it’s just a generally true statement.

    You also have the best war by attrition toolset in the game, and dreadnoughts are highly vulnerable to attrition

    In tactical combat, this is true against almost everyone but Dreadnaught. Tactically, Theocrat Healing requires bunching units together and Dreads specialize in AoE attacks at the same time they specialize in immunity to the status effects the Theocrat depends on to halt big strikes. That combination of strengths murders Theocrats.

    Wrath of God on the strategic map does nothing, Slayer’s Doubt does nothing, Smite does nothing, Convert does nothing, Daze does nothing, a Theocrats only real hope is to land Mark of the Heretic. The fact that you can dispell things, play better strategically, or outrun other players, is equally true in any class matchup and has no bearing on the Theo v Dread bloodbath.

    I can confirm this both as a Theocrat player and as a Dread player facing Theocrats. The matchup is ridiculously in the Dreads favor. It’s all about Armageddon.

    #203614

    Epaminondas
    Member

    It gives the class the strategical flexibility that the theocrat on the whole lacks. If it would be changed with a tank type, strategically slower unit imho theocrat would become worse in a lot of situations.

    Why does it need to be strategically slower? I don’t think any proposals to buff the Exalted melee-wise has been accompanied to make them slower as a compensation. Usually such proposals have involved making them far costlier or getting rid of Resurgence (my proposal, met with a lot of support – at least among those who wanted the unit to change drastically).

    If Exalted is fundamentally un-touched, fine. I do think we need to give Theocrats a T3/T4 heavy melee option – something that no class lacks, with the exception of the Dreadnought. How about bumping Crusader to T3 and making them exchange tiers with Evangelists? Would Convert on a T2 be too strong? (I don’t think so, if Evangelist stats are dramatically reduced.) Or how about buffing Evangelist more melee-wise? Perhaps not to the level of other class T3 bruisers but enough that they will be factors?

    #203619

    Epaminondas
    Member

    How? Because of Exalted? Exalted have exactly as many MP as Eagle Riders and Gryphons but fewer HP or stats to keep them alive. If the Dread fields some of those, they come along with shotguns to outrange you even still.

    Theocrats need Support units. 28 MP, no Flight, no faster or slower than a Dread. There is no “Great Mobility” spell for Theocrat. Theocrats are one of the slowest moving armies in the game sans racial units everyone gets. I’m actually fine with that, but it makes me scratch about your statement. I think what you really mean to say is “Well you’re weaker than a Dread in almost every way so keep running,” not that Theocrats have any particular speed advantage.

    Exactly: Claims to the effect that the Exalted give you a mobility advantage is over-blown. Any argument about Theocrat advantages that relies on the Exalted is over-blown per se, because they are such a fragile units.

    #203628

    Capirex
    Member

    It gives the class the strategical flexibility that the theocrat on the whole lacks. If it would be changed with a tank type, strategically slower unit imho theocrat would become worse in a lot of situations.

    Why does it need to be strategically slower? I don’t think any proposals to buff the Exalted melee-wise has been accompanied to make them slower as a compensation. Usually such proposals have involved making them far costlier or getting rid of Resurgence (my proposal, met with a lot of support – at least among those who wanted the unit to change drastically).

    If Exalted is fundamentally un-touched, fine. I do think we need to give Theocrats a T3/T4 heavy melee option – something that no class lacks, with the exception of the Dreadnought. How about bumping Crusader to T3 and making them exchange tiers with Evangelists? Would Convert on a T2 be too strong? (I don’t think so, if Evangelist stats are dramatically reduced.) Or how about buffing Evangelist more melee-wise? Perhaps not to the level of other class T3 bruisers but enough that they will be factors?

    I could have misunderstood, but still T3 flyers in general aren’t as sturdy as meele oriented walking T3, and rightfully so. They would be instantly overpowered.

    So if the majority of the community wants to give up resurgence for charge, some more hit points and slighlty cheaper price it’s fine by me, but personally i think it would be a net loss overall. And the unit would be a lot less unique and cool.

    Resurgence on a T3 flyer is pretty good. And being T3 their HP scale very well anyway. They are very good for creeping with resurgence and level up easily. Also they have pretty high res, which is always good in AoW games. I agree they aren’t cheap but still for the overall goodies they offer their price is reasonable, especially late game.

    Maybe they are not a unit for everyone but i definitely not see them as useless. Especially in the theo lineup. By the way i agree on giving them something else on bronze different from dazzled.

    #203635

    @lord Tyrael and quo. Abed is one if the better mp players (although I am surprised that the game lasted into the many city per player stage), so I’m fairly sure he was playing the game right.

    And the whole point of the exalted, after clearing, is harrasment without attrition. Most t-3 flyers are vulnerable to a lucky shot, or just normal losses depleting their numbers. Exalted are immune to this, and thus highly economicly efficient (especially with hasty plunder).

    A few golems is insufficient, because exalted can swarm in higher numbers, take and raze the city, and retreat to mountains or water out of the reach of the large dread armies. And the mere threat of this can prevent expansion (sijce the powerful armies have to be home guards) which limits the dreads economic advantage.

    If you at making slow support heavy stacks to attack dreads head on without overwhelming advantage (as when abeds opponent attacked), it is you who are not playing the game efficiently.

    #203641

    quo
    Member

    If Exalted is fundamentally un-touched, fine. I do think we need to give Theocrats a T3/T4 heavy melee option – something that no class lacks, with the exception of the Dreadnought. How about bumping Crusader to T3 and making them exchange tiers with Evangelists? Would Convert on a T2 be too strong? (I don’t think so, if Evangelist stats are dramatically reduced.) Or how about buffing Evangelist more melee-wise? Perhaps not to the level of other class T3 bruisers but enough that they will be factors?

    I’d rather go a slightly different route and make Exalted a hybrid support/infantry unit. It’s already partway there, with some of them having Absorb Pain. It fits the concept of the Theocrat better (to me).

    One thing I suggested in the past is giving Exalted a touch ability that confers Devout status. This would not increase their own damage, but make them force multipliers that can boost someone else. (They are already Devout themselves so there are no worries about stacks of them getting out of control.) Part of the reason Theocrats get murdered by Dreads is Theos are limited to a subset of units (Support, Calvary, Infantry). Even if there theoretically was some Dwelling unit that was great versus Machines, Theocrats still wouldn’t benefit that much from it because Mark of the Heretic doesn’t increase their damage. Even Necromancers can convert their living dwelling units over to their force multiplier state–not so Theocrats.

    #203643

    Bouh
    Member

    When i’d like my units to have support with touch of faith and heal/dispel my armies will not move faster or be more mobile than dreadnought… dread casts great mobilization and i’m the slow one, now dread is faster and alot stronger. Argmaggedon is a must at this point but it wont be an easy battle with Argmaggedon anyways. Exalted harras with holy war becomes viable with Argmaggedon at least. Dispell i have bad luck then i guess because my enemy always have priests, human or dwarves! I’ve used Cardinal culling with grey guard adept but it’s going to be nerfed vs priests.

    You like to shoot yourself in the foot. You said it yourself : what use do you have for these supports against a dreadnought ? Why do you handicap yourself this way then ?

    And does your ennemy have machines immune to spirit damage ? Or does he have living unit supporting machines ? You are moving the goalpost here. Either all your units are useful to fight the living support of the dreadnought, or they aren’t because there only are machines to fight. Either exalted are indeed not ideal because there are only machines, or they are extremely effective at disrupting and killing living support units.

    How? Because of Exalted? Exalted have exactly as many MP as Eagle Riders and Gryphons but fewer HP or stats to keep them alive. If the Dread fields some of those, they come along with shotguns to outrange you even still.

    Again, what’s the problem ? Machines ? Or living units ? Griffon riders and eagle are not even armoured, which make them only average for dreadnought, only benefiting from their mobility. They are hardly a threat to your units, and definitely not to exalted and your own flying units.

    Theocrats need Support units. 28 MP, no Flight, no faster or slower than a Dread. There is no “Great Mobility” spell for Theocrat. Theocrats are one of the slowest moving armies in the game sans racial units everyone gets. I’m actually fine with that, but it makes me scratch about your statement. I think what you really mean to say is “Well you’re weaker than a Dread in almost every way so keep running,” not that Theocrats have any particular speed advantage.

    Again the “shoot yourself in the foot” with slow supports. And if the dreadnought have great mobilization, you can have armageddon, and then you exalted will rampage over machines and win you the attrition war.

    Wrath of God on the strategic map does nothing, Slayer’s Doubt does nothing, Smite does nothing, Convert does nothing, Daze does nothing, a Theocrats only real hope is to land Mark of the Heretic. The fact that you can dispell things, play better strategically, or outrun other players, is equally true in any class matchup and has no bearing on the Theo v Dread bloodbath.

    The fact is that the theocrat do have tools to win the strategic war. It’s a tough matchup, but it’s not hopeless. You can’t have easy matchup against everyone. Dreadnought too has some constraint he needs to compose with.

    If Exalted is fundamentally un-touched, fine. I do think we need to give Theocrats a T3/T4 heavy melee option – something that no class lacks, with the exception of the Dreadnought. How about bumping Crusader to T3 and making them exchange tiers with Evangelists? Would Convert on a T2 be too strong? (I don’t think so, if Evangelist stats are dramatically reduced.) Or how about buffing Evangelist more melee-wise? Perhaps not to the level of other class T3 bruisers but enough that they will be factors?

    Evangelist already have high grade T3 melee unit damage. The only weak thing they have is armour. As for the melee unit, the crusader is already there. The crusader, while T2, can hit seriously above his league with all the buffs the theocrat have. Mighty meek, where being T2 plays to his advantage, heretic, holy champion, instant wrath, blessing of health.

    Add all the resurgence and heal and the theocrat definitely don’t need anymore than racial units for heavy melee work. It would only be redundant.

    Ok, i play with standard settings, my prefered playstyle is inclined towards multi cultural peace keeper or grey guard usually with creation adept. Starting race nowdays is human, draconian and dwarf sometimes goblin/orc but with shadowborn mono cultur.

    Human have the knight to fight machines. They will do any job very well on open field. Draconians are even better : fire protected flyers are the bane of machines. Grey guard have cardinal culling, among other things. Angels make up for a tough flyer if that’s what you miss so much.

    I don’t see why you would need more than what you already have. Rogue and necromancer for example have less tools to deal with machines than the theocrat. But again, this is how machines work. For these advantages, they don’t heal. That’s where attrition war and strategy can be used against dreadnought.

    #203644

    quo
    Member

    Oh, the other thing about Exalted. I think they should get perma Mighty Meek on Bronze instead of Dazzle. That would mean they are still very killable to low tier units but get +3 defense/damage to heroes and T4s.

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