This game is missing a huge opportunity

We’ve moved over to the paradox forums. Please come visit us there to discuss:
You can still read the collective wisdom - and lolz - of the community here, but posting is no longer possible.

Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions This game is missing a huge opportunity

This topic contains 24 replies, has 19 voices, and was last updated by  b0rsuk 9 years, 1 month ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #3414

    sigil
    Member

    Sorry to say this but after watching the gameplay video it is obvious that the quality of visuals, effects, animations and gameplay complexity is nowhere near that of Heroes of Might and Magic 6.

    I’m talking only about the combat part of the video.

    Especially the animations are not up to par, you can see them here.

    Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the combat of Heroes of Might and Magic 6 would be joined with other aspects of the game? It would almost be a perfect game then.

     

    #3416

    Flenoom
    Moderator
    #3417

    I also enjoy Heroes VI, but you are comparing a game that’s still in pre-alpha with a game that’s been released officially, which is maybe putting the cart before the horse a bit.  There will probably be a lot that’s different looking about the game when it finally arrives in our hands, and honestly visuals and optimizing the animation are some of the last work tradtionally done in game design.  Hang tight, relax, don’t panic.

    #3418

    sigil
    Member

    Even in a game like this focus should be more on combat. There is a renaissance of turn-based combat oriented games and it should exploit it.
    Heroes of Might and Magic 6 is pretty much a role model in that aspect.

    #3421

    b0rsuk
    Member

    I haven’t seen the gameplay video yet, but animations would have to be really terrible to be worse than Heroes VI. Each attack in Heroes VI takes half an hour. And graphics in Heroes5-6 look oversaturated, highly unnatural. Battle Worlds: Kronos on the other hand, is just perfect for me:

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kingartgames/battle-worlds-kronos-turn-based-strategy-revisited/?ref=kicktraq
    Note I’m talking about the style, color balance, saturation, scale, contrast. Not the number of tanks.

    #3423

    Jayaris
    Member

    The game is, at least the only video I’ve seen, in alpha.

    Was there another video recently released that you could link to?

    At any rate, I think you’re jumping the gun to some degree.  I liked the video.

    #3424

    Warmonger
    Member

    h6 is bad bad game,both in gameplay,graphics and especially art wise.it have a green faction with giant spider woman(undead) a purple faction with purple dargons(dark elves) a boring holier-than-thou faction and orcs(because after warcraft every fantasy game needs big green orcs).that game is clearly designed for childs

    #3430

    Andocair
    Member

    The animation quality in Heroes 6 is very good I think. I didn’t get to play it yet, because most people I know prefer Heroes 5 in terms of gameplay, but the visuals are great. The lengthy attack, and death animations might get in the way, but they surely can be disabled, like in Heroes 5, can they not?

    The unit animations seen in the gameplay video are very clunky and stiff. And the sounds from AoW2 seem a little out of place. Both still need some work. But as many of you said, this is an alpha preview. I’m sure Triumph will manage to polish animations, and redo sounds till the games release.

    EDIT: Many of the other features shown in the video I like very much. Spell effects are telegraphing well, and are not too long. Flanking attacks are great. And the coulisse of the battlefield looks great.

    #3433

    Tomipapa
    Member

    sigil: As many said before me this is a pre alpha video. Not beta or even alpha its a pre alpha. So comparing  pre alpha state animations with a completed game is not too wise.

    Heroes of Might and Magic 6 is pretty much a role model in that aspect.

    LoL???HoMM 6 as a leading example? LoL again no triple lol

    #3434

    geertvdheide
    Member

    @sigil: You’re not making a lot of sense here. Heroes 6 does a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong, the end result being a pretty disappointing game imo. Either way, there’s no logic in trying to copy it. AoW3 will need its own unique selling points and the first gameplay video is very promising in this regard. The animations look fine to me, especially for a pre-alpha video.

    Heroes 6 mostly messed up in the AI department and the number of bugs (some of which are still around long after release). The computer controlled heroes mess up in the most basic tactics, they forget about a lot of spells and abilities, their movement and army logistics are poor and so on. That killed a lot of the fun for me in H6. Hopefully, AoW3 will nail the AI because it’s one of the main contributing factors to rewarding singleplayer gameplay. I’m also hoping for a story that makes some sense, as H6’s story was boring and told in the weirdest possible order that made me lose all interest.

    Heroes 6 chose a very colourful visual style which I think looks good mostly, and some of the gameplay mechanics are strong, but I’m hoping AoW3 chooses its own path. Both in terms of graphics as well as gameplay. Can’t wait to see more gameplay footage.

    #3438

    NEHZ
    Member

    You’re saying the combat complexity doesn’t match up? Really? Let’s see what they’ve shown so far:
    Frontal Combat
    Reteliation (with limits, which adds complexity)
    Area of Effect attack
    Flanking
    Spellcasting with choise from several spells
    Unique unit abilities (conversion)
    Unit classes (spells that affect only the ‘devout’)
    Variable terrain

    All this in one random battle in a pre-alpha build. Looking good to me. If you believe there is something lacking that should be there, why not tell us what that is?

    Next: the animations.
    I’ve quickly looked up some vids, and all the animations in homm6 look like this: units have their unique attack animation. When hit, they display their ‘hurt’ animation. Not nearly as great as the reel you’ve shown makes you think it is. Havn’t looked at many vids, so if I’m wrong do correct me.
    Now let’s look at what happens in the aow3 vid: units get hurt and can fall dead. But what happens there? A dragon smacks an indidual model, seperating it from it’s unit and throwing it across the battlefield. It’s complex, it’s quick in a way that it doesn’t slow combat down at all and it got me pumped. If there’s going to be more of these kind of interaction between unit and spell animations, AoW 3 will raise the bar for all tbs games.

    #3445

    Fikol
    Member

    Personally I’m already fine with the graphics… I care about gameplay, AI, complexity, and fun. it’s strategic game afterall.

    #3447

    Piko LV
    Member

    Wow. The game is still pre-alpha, but It looks genially. Some things need more work, like the heroes’ heads, but some others are just genial. When the dragon throwed one of the soldiers a few hexes back… Wow.

    #3452

    Great animations in the video indeed. The only problem is that HOM&M6 has been on my computer for a long time abandoned and forgotten because I quickly grew very bored with it.

    But from what I have seen AOWIII has very good graphics too, IMO… and I am sure its gameplay will kick heroes in the nuts as usual.

    …but heroes graphics is great, and I mean it! …only unfortunately I fall asleep because of the gameplay and I don’t get to see the graphics! 😛

    #3472

    Lennart Sas
    Keymaster

    Yep – Animations and Sound FX are still work in progress.  Note we do want to keep up the game pace, so animations will be snappy and not long winded.

    #3473

    esvath
    Member

    Hi, I registered at this forum after watching the demo video

    It was good! Congrats for the team!

    Beautiful animations/screens are great, but please do not sacrifice gameplay for the shiny. THAT is exactly what the creator of MMH6 had done, and that failed badly. They concentrated on good display (not the best) but delivered a game with zounds of bugs, no town screen, gimped single player offline mode, etc. Thus, I rarely play MMH6, and the good display is wasted because I rarely play the game!

    #3476

    Stryges
    Member

    Please, only use HoMM 6 as an object lesson of what not to do. I was seriously disappointed with the final product there (although I would say half my disappointment was the game, and the rest were the technical issues of DRM and such).

    It also cracks me up when people mention that this game is just copying things from something HoMM, when if anything the change in tactical combat in the HoMM series from 3 to 4 moved more towards the AoW model, which was greatly influenced, as has been mentioned, by MoM.

     

    While I am not a fan of 3D in tactical turn-based combat (I just shudder thinking of how ugly HoMM IV was), I was quite impressed with the polish. It looks like a much more developed FE actually ;-).

     

    I couldn’t tell from my one view of the video, but can you change the view perspective of the battlefield, or is it locked like FE?

     

    #3480

    Hunter
    Member

    FE is not locked. Middle mouse button.

    I would be surprised if AOW3 delivered a 3D tactical system that didn’t let you move the camera (although good autoplacement is the key).

    #3509

    Narvek
    Keymaster

    You can change the perspective in the battlefields, look from different directions etc.

    #3564

    b0rsuk
    Member

    Heroes IV was actually not that bad as far as battlefield looks go. For instance, for the first time dragons looked *awesome* rather than awkward. Unicorns actually run fluidly, their animation was really jerky in previous games. I actually like H4 combat visuals, I’m much more offended by adventure map and town screens.

    And don’t forget, Heroes IV was the closest to Age of Wonders as far as mechanics go. It wasn’t a good game primarily because their publisher was going bankrupt. Thank you 3DO for sinking a ton of money into your dud console ! HOMM1-3 were all very succesful and sold well, and they managed to waste all that with one bad move.

    #3567

    Piko LV
    Member

    3DO didn’t bankrupt bcoz of HoMM4. It started with AB and the poor Conflux. And anyway, Heroes4 isn’t so bad game – but if it would have got better modding possibilities and hexagonal battlefield it would be far better. And too, heroes could have got their own specializations (they are all generic), and at least some units should have got upgraded form. But it still is a very good game, which I personally like more than HoMM3 (but still not as much as HoMM2 ;P)

    #3577

    b0rsuk
    Member

    No, you are wrong. AB, Shadow of Death etc weren’t financial failures. What killed 3DO was sinking mountains of money in an attempt to launch their own console. The console was a failure. Yes, that’s actually another thing we can blame consoles for. That, and Army Men games. They also had a poor policy of rushing games.

    Heroes of Might and Magic was never a modding-friendly game. Neither were RTS games, I’m afraid. FPS games are often moddable largely thanks to John Carmack and ID Software, who designed DooM to be moddable. They still release source code of their games, even relatively recent ones like DooM 3. Rage is also likely to be open sourced one day.

    Actually, Heroes of Might and Magic were rarely even… patched. Glaring balance issues were left there, while the team worked on expansion packs and sequels.

    #3580

    NEHZ
    Member

    “Neither were RTS games”
    Erm, the age of empire series all included map editors. I think they were on par with age of wonders in how far you could mod them. Worse with their object editing, better with their triggers.
    I seem to remember total annihilation had mods, never tried anything on that myself. Supreme Commander supported LUA.
    Starcraft, warcraft III and starcraft 2 all had map editors included. These games introduced entire genres thanks to their modding. (tower defense, AoS/Dota)

    #3581

    BlaneckW
    Member

    WarCraft 3 yes, they typically closed down mods of StarCraft.

    #3594

    b0rsuk
    Member

    Warcraft 3, Starcraft never crossed the line between “custom map” and “mod”. Modifications were always limited to a single map, if you wanted to play some fancy rules on another map you had to edit a map and copy a bunch of scripts.

    In any case, modding in RTS never took off in the same way that it did in FPS.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.