Tier 4 Racial Units

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Tier 4 Racial Units

This topic contains 115 replies, has 28 voices, and was last updated by  Jolly Joker 6 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #170317

    LordCameron
    Member

    My brother and I have a fun game we play called “What should be brought back for Age of Wonders 3?” It’s a good pastime and to keep it interesting we only make suggestions that might actually be brought back.

    I’ve found a huge limiting factor of the game is the fact that you can’t build tier 4 race units. So I came up with an idea to perhaps bring them back:

    What if your throne city, and only your throne city, could build a building after the grand palace that would unlock a tier four racial? That way the production of racial’s would be very limited and hard to achieve so they could arrive on par with the class tier 4 or getting a dwelling’s tier 4.

    Issues of course would arise if the throne was migrated or captured, but I think they could be handled in a similar manner to having the class buildings being captured, just make the building disappear.

    So what do you think? In terms of balance, possibility of implementing and complications I didn’t see?

    #170414

    Epaminondas
    Member

    There have been many threads on this issue – in fact, this is one of the most frequent topics to come up. And each time the vast majority of the players don’t want racial T4s, because they would upset the game lore as currently constituted, balance, and mechanics excessively. And I frankly don’t think your suggestion addresses these issues sufficiently.

    #170462

    Wintersend
    Member

    I think that limiting it to the capital, and the capital only, at the end of a long production queue should work pretty well. Sadly, Epaminondas is right and few people want racial T4s even though I, personally, would like to see more units, especially at the upper end.

    #170473

    Nerdfish
    Member

    They’d be fine if they require palace, forge and hall of champion.

    #170491

    LordCameron
    Member

    There have been many threads on this issue – in fact, this is one of the most frequent topics to come up. And each time the vast majority of the players don’t want racial, because they would upset the game lore as currently constituted, balance, and mechanics excessively. And I frankly don’t think your suggestion addresses these issues sufficiently.

    I did a quick search before I started the topic and could not find anything. Any chance you could direct me to these topics or say what the main complaint was?

    #170494

    LordCameron
    Member

    I’ve found a huge limiting factor of the game is the fact that you can’t build tier 4 race units

    also just to quickly clarify here I meant a limiting factor in the game of me and my brother. With this expansion Age of Wonders is far beyond my expectations even after such excellent previous games. (Wouldn’t say no to even more content though 😉 )

    #170583

    Epaminondas
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Epaminondas wrote:</div>
    There have been many threads on this issue – in fact, this is one of the most frequent topics to come up. And each time the vast majority of the players don’t want racial, because they would upset the game lore as currently constituted, balance, and mechanics excessively. And I frankly don’t think your suggestion addresses these issues sufficiently.

    I did a quick search before I started the topic and could not find anything. Any chance you could direct me to these topics or say what the main complaint was?

    This one I don’t recall, but it’s the most recent, dedicated thread I came up. But I recall at least a dozen thread where it was extensively debated:

    http://ageofwonders.com/forums/topic/your-opinions-about-implementation-of-tier-4-racial-units/

    I think this post sums up how I and a lot of regulars here feel about this topic:

    Oh my god, this is at least, like…. the tenth time I have seen a thread about this, in the last month alone, and every time it is the same debate….

    #170586

    Personally, I never found most of the “against it” arguments very convincing, and I fail to see how can having more choice of units unbalancing. Races lost a portion of their uniqueness with the class mechanics when, late game, you mostly rely on class units and it matters less what race you pick. Grand palace to be a requirement for T4 units is an OK idea to me. Another way could be to limit the cities to producing only 1 type of T4, so if you have top class building than no racial T4s and those that can, have in exchange class T4 production locked. This would force players to make decisions on their city development what kind of units you want to build.
    Any way I’d alway vote for racial T4 to make a return.

    #170589

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Personally, I never found most of the “against it” arguments very convincing, and I fail to see how can having more choice of units unbalancing. Races lost a portion of their uniqueness with the class mechanics when, late game, you mostly rely on class units and it matters less what race you pick. Grand palace to be a requirement for T4 units is an OK idea to me. Another way could be to limit the cities to producing only 1 type of T4, so if you have top class building than no racial T4s and those that can, have in exchange class T4 production locked. This would force players to make decisions on their city development what kind of units you want to build.<br>
    Any way I’d alway vote for racial T4 to make a return.

    Maybe you should comment after seeing all the “against it” argument out there. There are more than balance issues; there are lore issues, aesthetics issues, mechanics issue – sheet, I am sure I can think of moral issues if I thought hard enough about it! 😉

    Edit: Anyways, it’s too early in the morning to beat this dead horse. But please do take a look at some of the longer threads on this topic. I’ve bumped the most recent one up – though I am not sure how comprehensive that debate was, since I didn’t participate in it.

    #170602

    SaintTodd
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>Imissleprechauns wrote:</div>
    Personally, I never found most of the “against it” arguments very convincing, and I fail to see how can having more choice of units unbalancing. Races lost a portion of their uniqueness with the class mechanics when, late game, you mostly rely on class units and it matters less what race you pick. Grand palace to be a requirement for T4 units is an OK idea to me. Another way could be to limit the cities to producing only 1 type of T4, so if you have top class building than no racial T4s and those that can, have in exchange class T4 production locked. This would force players to make decisions on their city development what kind of units you want to build.<br><br>
    Any way I’d alway vote for racial T4 to make a return.

    Maybe you should comment after seeing all the “against it” argument out there. There are more than balance issues; there are lore issues, aesthetics issues, mechanics issue – sheet, I am sure I can think of moral issues if I thought hard enough about it! ;)

    Edit: Anyways, it’s too early in the morning to beat this dead horse. But please do take a look at some of the longer threads on this topic. I’ve bumped the most recent one up – though I am not sure how comprehensive that debate was, since I didn’t participate in it.

    Why do you assume he hasn’t? I read many of those threads and found the arguments against them uncompelling, also.

    #170650

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Why do you assume he hasn’t? I read many of those threads and found the arguments against them uncompelling, also.

    Because he has only addressed the balance issue, and not the others. (And even that solution is inadequate.)

    I really really don’t want to re-hash all these issues in detail; and frankly, I believe most others are as well.

    #170661

    Ravenholme
    Member

    <div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>SaintTodd wrote:</div>
    Why do you assume he hasn’t? I read many of those threads and found the arguments against them uncompelling, also.

    Because he has only addressed the balance issue, and not the others. (And even that solution is inadequate.)

    I really really don’t want to re-hash all these issues in detail; and frankly, I believe most others are as well.

    I think Jad’s response in the last thread on this subject, which you quoted, about sums up my reaction to seeing this thread, again

    #170828

    Actually, it was Jaduggar’s argument that first came to my mind when I said not convincing.
    Let’s look at it again:

    “Right now, that elder thing you are bothered with, is only going to be spammed by one class. The Sorceror. The theocrat is going to spam shrines, and the druid is going to spam storm giants. If you play against each one on three different maps, then each game you are confronting a different endgame. It is still spam, but you arent seeing the shrine for three games in a row… that would drive anyone insane.

    Now, if you add racial t4s… then in that first game you will see all 8 of those racial t4s. In the second game you will see the same eight. In the third game… the same eight yet another time. Every. Single. Game. The end game will become exactly the same each time you play it, because they will always be the same t4s over and over again, with only minor changes.

    This is because, although you will face different enemy classes each time you play… the same eight races will be on most every map you play, with very few exceptions. THAT is how it reduces diversity. The actual quantity of t4s will go up, but they will be the same ones over and over again.”

    So, his logic is that instead of seeing same 7 (if we count Necro) T4 units all the time, game will be more repetitive if we see 16 different T4 (from 9 races and 7 classes) and that just doesn’t make sense.
    Plus, it would deepen the whole “make the most effective race/class combo” concept of AOW3. Think about this: Warlord going against Rogue might want to have an alternative to building Manticores as his top army ’cause of how ineffective they, and all other WL units are against Shadow Stalkers. And that’s just 1 example…

    P.S. And going back through these T4 topics it was actually just a handful of people who were against it, they were simply “loudest” speakers on the tread, if you know what I mean.

    #170841

    SaintTodd
    Member

    Actually, it was Jaduggar’s argument that first came to my mind when I said not convincing.<br>
    Let’s look at it again:

    “Right now, that elder thing you are bothered with, is only going to be spammed by one class. The Sorceror. The theocrat is going to spam shrines, and the druid is going to spam storm giants. If you play against each one on three different maps, then each game you are confronting a different endgame. It is still spam, but you arent seeing the shrine for three games in a row… that would drive anyone insane.

    Now, if you add racial t4s… then in that first game you will see all 8 of those racial t4s. In the second game you will see the same eight. In the third game… the same eight yet another time. Every. Single. Game. The end game will become exactly the same each time you play it, because they will always be the same t4s over and over again, with only minor changes.

    This is because, although you will face different enemy classes each time you play… the same eight races will be on most every map you play, with very few exceptions. THAT is how it reduces diversity. The actual quantity of t4s will go up, but they will be the same ones over and over again.”

    So, his logic is that instead of seeing same 7 (if we count Necro) T4 units all the time, game will be more repetitive if we see 16 different T4 (from 9 races and 7 classes) and that just doesn’t make sense.<br>
    Plus, it would deepen the whole “make the most effective race/class combo” concept of AOW3. Think about this: Warlord going against Rogue might want to have an alternative to building Manticores as his top army ’cause of how ineffective they, and all other WL units are against Shadow Stalkers. And that’s just 1 example…

    P.S. And going back through these T4 topics it was actually just a handful of people who were against it, they were simply “loudest” speakers on the tread, if you know what I mean.

    Sounds like a bunch of common sense, to me.

    #170842

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    Imo, a lot of people keep quiet, because it’s such a bad idea, that it shouldn’t ev come up.
    Why bother with class unit research, when you simply can follow the same production principles than in previous games? Add to that the NEW T4s available via specvializations and the old ones via Dwellings – and why bother with Manticores?

    You’ll just bring everyone to the same level: PRODUCE racial T4s (and get the rest along the way) and RESEARCH things you can SUMMON (because of the different upkeep).

    Additionally there ARE a lot of different T4s. For a really DIFFERENT game, play with NO neutral Settlements and MANY Dwellings – et voila. This will allow T4 PRODUCING, but since you can’t actively add to the production capacity, production takes time, so the spamming isn’t all that easy.

    You just cannot add EVERY amount of EVERYTHING and expect a better result.

    #170865

    Eomolch
    Member

    Imo, a lot of people keep quiet, because it’s such a bad idea, that it shouldn’t ev come up.

    I’d say that is a rather opportunistic assumption. The same way one could argue that people keep quiet because the vehement raging of some users against this idea scares them away. In both cases very polemic and with little real value for the discussion. (That being said, capslock rarely helps in a discussion, only makes you seem aggressive.)

    Why bother with class unit research, when you simply can follow the same production principles than in previous games? Add to that the NEW T4s available via specvializations and the old ones via Dwellings – and why bother with Manticores?

    Simply following the production principles of previous games may not turn out to be as simple as you think. Most people asking for racial T4s want them to be unlocked with Grand Palace or even another building unlocked by it, so by all means it would take a long time before racial T4s would enter the playground under control of the player (ofc with the AI that’s a different story) – I for one thing can’t remember the last time I build a grand palace myself. That said the solution with the grand palace or another building at the end of the production chain doesn’t neccessarily have to be the best solution. There are other possibilities, in fact the new racial gouvernance feature sounds like something that could very well have been developed with the purpose of adding additional racial units. Make T4 production a tier 3 or 4 gouvernance upgrade (which unlocks the coresponding production building) and I don’t see how they could be game breaking or making the class choice obsolete, especially since they would also benefit from empire upgrades that favour a certain unit type (support T4s getting inflict stun as sorc, etc…).

    #170882

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    I don’t see the point of your post – it makes no sense:

    you add features only when they will be used in play, right? Why add a bunch of racial T4s, when you’ll only see them on th biggest maps with lots of stuff?
    I mean, seriously, when you are in favor of something that would cost a lot of work and stuff, you can’t support it by saying that it will be irrelevant and almost never happen.
    In that case – why bother?

    So that’s an absurd point.

    #170895

    Eomolch
    Member

    you add features only when they will be used in play, right? Why add a bunch of racial T4s, when you’ll only see them on th biggest maps with lots of stuff?

    Oh, they would see the game, just usually not before class T4s do, which seemed to be the biggest concern of some people here. So they would offer more variaty for the end-game which seems like a rather good thing to me. Also, what you said equally applies to all the dwelling T4 units (which you seem to be particularly fond of, since you mention them every time racial T4 demands come up) – so are they irrelevant too? (the same seems to be true for the new T4 angel summons, based on what most of the beta testers said)

    And sorry if I offended you, that was by no means my intention!

    #170970

    Joni
    Member

    I really don’t get why this would be such a bad idea per se – as pointed out by Eomolch, the main arguments against implementing this simply do not hold much value. Neither do games automatically get more boring if we have more T4’s nor does it automatically throw off balance by either having these racial T4’s too early or too late. It’s all about implementation.

    On the other hand, I’d like to see more specific input from the big supporters of the idea: Make a full-fledged line up of possible cool T4 units that add more variety and spice to the game, and then we can talk! For some races this might be quite easy (Human Air Galley), for others, well, not so much. Also, bonus points if you lay down how their production might tie into the current “philosophy” of gaining access to powerful units without throwing off balance in an interesting and unique way (such as the Palace-requirement). Show us what you’ve got!

    Personally, I’d rather have another T3 per race with an accompanying system making the two T3’s mutually exclusive per city. So for example as Humans, you could either build the Hall of Chivalry to get Knights or instead go for the “Mystical Hut”, allowing the production of the good ol’ Witch.

    #171001

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    You didn’t offend me, I just think that you pull points out of nowhere that make no sense – I mean, look at your last post:
    1) Dwellings;
    Dwellings are a completely different PRODUCTION (not summoning) matter than racials, because there is no production capacity development (Giants can build 1 as part of their dwellings).
    That in turn means, producing a DWELLING T4 takes one hell of a lot of time – Gold Dragons take, for example 6 turns to produce, hurrying production costs a fortune and the happiness loss isn’t so good either, since you can’t influence happiness of dwellings the way you can influence regular towns.
    Which means, dwellings and regular towns are a completely different thing.
    Also the dwelling units are special cases and can’t profit – thankfully – from mystical empire upgrades (there are a couple of cases that would be rather terrifying).

    2) You SAY, “they would see the game, just usually not before class T4s do”, which doesn’t make sense at all:
    a) In case of PRODUCTION classes you had no reason at all to invest into the obviously expensive town infrastructure for them (or in the Class infrastructure – research plus Class Buildings). It’s enough to go for ONE of those, because once you CAN and do produce T4s the game shouldn’t last that long anymore anyway (for a couple of reasons), AND your concern is on dual channel producing – you would rather SUMMON stuff (because that would cost mana upkeep and could be done in addition).
    b) IN case of the SUMMONING classes, you’d want to PRODUCE T4s IN ADDITION to summoning (something possible now only via dwelling). Now the advantage of the summoning classes is that they can SUMMON a lot of the troops they need, which means, their troop PRODUCTION need (in towns) is lower. That in turn means, the summoning classes would obviously aim to develop a town up to T4 ASAP, in order to be able to produce T4s fast, since that wouldn’t inhibit their SUMMONING research.
    Just think about they play now, add a dozen or so turns and add racial T4s to the summoning class mix.

    If on the other hand you raise the hurdle so high, that T4s become available only when everything is built in a town – why bother? IT MAKES NO SENSE TO DO SO, because in that case you are better off by simply producing racial T3s. Isn’t that obvious? I mean, why build and build and build to be able to get a T4 eventually – when you could have a dozen T3s already at that point?

    All that said – obviously the devs were not too lazy or something to include racial T4s, because there ARE a lot of T4s in the game. Ergo, they had good reason, and that reasons are not so difficult to fathom. So instead of saying, “hey, adding another handful of awesome production creatures would be really, really great”, you should just try and fathom, based on the premise, that it should be a meaningful and relevant addition, how you’d wanted to do it and what that would mean for the game and how you AND THE AI play it – not the way you’d LIKE or dream it to be, but based on facts, not wishful thinking.

    It doesn’t add up.

    #171023

    Joni
    Member

    It doesn’t add up.

    I don’t mean to be rude either, but how can you add things up that aren’t implemented? It’s quite convenient to get to such a brief conclusion as long as you simply make up one side of the equation. But how do you know that racial T4s could not be added in a more or less balanced way? How about taking into account a scenario where the hurdle isn’t too low nor too high, but more or less just right? Of course this would need testing, but then everything does.

    If I understood your stance correctly, you must absolutely hate the new specializations, which add non-class T4s. Do they throw off balance in favour of either summoning or, rather, non-summoning classes? Not at all, at least according to beta testers. These new T4s might even be slightly late to the party it seems, but I haven’t heard one voice saying that “they make no sense”.

    Again, I am not personally in favour of adding racial T4s, but for entirely different reasons – so far nobody could convince me that each race would bring enough lore/gameplay elements/originality to warrant such an effort from the Devs.

    #171059

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Again, I am not personally in favour of adding racial T4s, but for entirely different reasons – so far nobody could convince me that each race would bring enough lore/gameplay elements/originality to warrant such an effort from the Devs.

    I’ve cited these issues here; and they have been amply explored umpteenth times in separate threads by others. Simply put: Because a lot of traditional racial T4s have been assimilated into class units or dwelling units, there are few persuasive lore-based units to employ as racial T4s. Further, the fact that the current race unit scheme only includes units of that particular race absolutely hamstrings options. For instance, you can’t really stick, say, a Fairy Dragon as a T4 High Elf unit. The current lore/racial unit scheme just doesn’t have a spot for T4s.

    And there are other issues as well; and I can’t believe I am wasting my time on this asinine thread.

    #171073

    Bouh
    Member

    Like Epaminondas said, T4 are monsters, always and always have been, so they don’t fit into racial lines up of AoW3 gameplay design.

    On top of that, they wouldn’t add a lot, because you don’t need different T4 to win a game. Why would you bother researching something when you can simply build buildings in your city and spam a T4 after that ? They would most probably obsolete most class T4 and favor summoning classes again (which would then be able to produce powerful units unlike now).

    #171081

    Epaminondas
    Member

    I forgot to add: If anything extra is added for racials, I’ve always been for T3s, as there is a precedent for multiple T3s, and those units have not all been assimilated into class units.

    #171099

    Joni
    Member

    I’ve cited these issues here; and they have been amply explored umpteenth times in separate threads by others. Simply put: Because a lot of traditional racial T4s have been assimilated into class units or dwelling units, there are few persuasive lore-based units to employ as racial T4s. Further, the fact that the current race unit scheme only includes units of that particular race absolutely hamstrings options. For instance, you can’t really stick, say, a Fairy Dragon as a T4 High Elf unit. The current lore/racial unit scheme just doesn’t have a spot for T4s.

    And there are other issues as well; and I can’t believe I am wasting my time on this asinine thread.

    Hopefully my two earlier posts were obvious enough to prove that I could not be more aware of this challenge, which is why I assume you are not replying to me but instead to other, less informed readers of this thread.

    I’d like to point out two things though, which you did not take into account: 1) The hypothetical Human Airship is a good example of how to circumvent these admittedly rather narrow schemes. 2) The Tigran T3 takes a much more generous approach to the “only racial/humanoid” stance, so there might be a tad more design space than you and some others assume.

    Now if people actually manage to lay out an equivalent to the Airship for the other races, then the discussion might actually get worthwile. I doubt this is possible, but I’d gladly get proven wrong by the creativity of others!

    Maybe a new/necroed thread for additional T3s would be more productive though than beating this comatose horse.

    #171100

    Hieronymous
    Member

    The T4 warlord unit is just a berserker on a manticore, and the T3 Tigran is a giant mutant. To say the lore has no room for racial T4’s is, IMO, a little disingenuous. It’s not hard to imagine other war beasts / chariots / machines / litters to put racial units on, or big morphs of races like Orcs or Draconians.

    That said, with the possible exception of Archons, should they ever show up, I’d rather see more lateral expansion of the races. A T1 support or cavalry here and there, a T2 archer, a T3 irregular, some race-specific machines (T1-T3; I don’t think Air Galleys really belong, with the loss of the old Transport skill), whatever.

    #171106

    Epaminondas
    Member

    Hopefully my two earlier posts were obvious enough to prove that I could not be more aware of this challenge, which is why I assume you are not replying to me but instead to other, less informed readers of this thread.

    Indeed; it was a general point – not directed to you in particular.

    I’d like to point out two things though, which you did not take into account: 1) The hypothetical Human Airship is a good example of how to circumvent these admittedly rather narrow schemes. 2) The Tigran T3 takes a much more generous approach to the “only racial/humanoid” stance, so there might be a tad more design space than you and some others assume.

    Now if people actually manage to lay out an equivalent to the Airship for the other races, then the discussion might actually get worthwile. I doubt this is possible, but I’d gladly get proven wrong by the creativity of others!

    Maybe a new/necroed thread for additional T3s would be more productive though than beating this comatose horse.

    Actually, I did precisely think of the airship as a notable exception. But – as you yourself acknowledge – it would be extremely difficult to present such exceptions for all 9 races.

    The T4 warlord unit is just a berserker on a manticore, and the T3 Tigran is a giant mutant. To say the lore has no room for racial T4′s is, IMO, a little disingenuous. It’s not hard to imagine other war beasts / chariots / machines / litters to put racial units on, or big morphs of races like Orcs or Draconians.

    The point is that it’s a lot more difficult to universalize the exception than have an exception or two here and there.

    #171117

    Gyor
    Member

    If one wants racial t4 without unbalancing the game, perhaps tying them to a Mystical Upgrade, so you can’t build them in every city and they don’t replace class t3s or Dark Pact.

    #171162

    Jolly Joker
    Member

    I ask again:

    WHY BOTHER?

    I mean, T4s are the most critical units anyway, and there are those who’d like to completely ban them. They also get the least playing time.

    At this time we have racial
    T1 Irreg, Archer, Inf, Pike
    T2 Supp, Cav
    T3 is Inf for Dwarf, Orc and Drac, Cav for Human, Halfling, Goblin and Elf, Irreg for Tigran and Support for Frostlings
    Additionally there are the MACHINE units.

    which means, T3 is already a bonus unit. At this stage, is is a pretty good “skeleton” of a possible army.

    The only really useful thing to add that comes to mind is something that already shows through somewhat in the two new races: a SPECIAL unit. However, this unit would more or less not be added, but replace a regular one.
    Examples: Goblins: Butcher instead of Impaler (a T2 Pikeman with Life Steal).
    Tigrans’s Mystic that can change shape: replaces regular Suppport (and a T2 as well).
    But where is the space to ADD more?

    Keep in mind that I really LIKE my units. I LOVED the additional unit that came with SM – where the hell are the darn HYDRAS (I’m a sucker for this kind of monster)?
    However – I’ve been playing a lot Warlord, and as a Warlord you get an additional 6 Class units – plus hopefully one or another to summon via Special. So with a Warlord I can get
    T1 Irreg, Pike, Inf, Arch
    T2 Supp, Cav, Inf, Irreg, Arch
    T3 Racial, Pike, Monster
    T4 Cav
    Racial will beInf, Cav, Supp or Irreg, depending on Race.
    Add to that possible Dweling additions plus specializaion units – and how will you build al this? Where is the NEED?

    I mean, in the last game I finished I was lucky with a Dragon dwelling insofar that it was pretty near and gave a very hard quest I could fulfill very early since my troops were all near and beating up a couple of Giants with two stacks of Warlord medal T1 and T2 units isn’t that hard. I went Gold Dragon, and since it came early (maybe turn 45 or so) I got Paragon on it (King diff, L with U, 7 players). 30 turns later, when that game ended, that Dragon was Champion 3 and more or less invincible, provided you added a couple of units to virtually watch its back.

    You can add Dwellings, you can add Specializations, you can add races and classes – but adding troops to the races?

    #171194

    Eomolch
    Member

    On the other hand, I’d like to see more specific input from the big supporters of the idea: Make a full-fledged line up of possible cool T4 units that add more variety and spice to the game, and then we can talk! For some races this might be quite easy (Human Air Galley), for others, well, not so much. Also, bonus points if you lay down how their production might tie into the current “philosophy” of gaining access to powerful units without throwing off balance in an interesting and unique way (such as the Palace-requirement). Show us what you’ve got!

    I have to warn you, this may get quite long, but since you asked for it … 😀

    Most of the following unit ideas I already posted in an earlier thread, where no one bothered to comment on them so judge for yourself.

    Humans: Air Galley (see TO post and many others, nothing new here)

    Elfs: Blade Master (Infantery)
    * 36(!) mp haste
    * total awareness
    * extra strike (when this unit attacks, it gains an aditional action point)
    * throw dagger (straight shot, medium range, chance to inflict paralyzed for 2 turns (incorporeal units are immune))
    * melee attacks cause some lightning damage
    * armored
    * mind control immunity
    * possible medal upgrades: sprint, phase, marcial arts

    Halflings: Master of Mischief (Irregular)
    * very lucky
    * melee attacks can inflict dazzled
    * smoky haze (when this unit is attacked, there is a chance the attacker will suffer 3 blight damage and get poisoned)
    * sprint
    * throw fariy powder (bomb attack, 3 fire, frost, lightning damage, applies random debuff)
    * animal and monster slayer
    * throw stones
    * trip up (breaks guard mode of target and puts its abilities on full cooldown (yes, abilities that can only be used once per combat are gone))
    * mind control immunity
    * possible medal upgrades: backstab, inflict crippling wounds, pass wall, minor bard skills, taunt (if it is changed to a non-berserk effect again)

    Draconians: Firebrute (Monster) (not flying)
    * immolating breath (breath attack, 8 fire damage, chance to inflict immolation)
    * regeneration
    * inflict scorching heat
    * inflict immolation
    * projectile resistance
    * 100% fire protection, lava walking, 20% frost weakness
    * swallow whole
    * possible medal upgrades: fearsome, fire aura, mind control immunity

    Goblins: Pit-Driver (Irregular) (Infantery)
    * relentless (if this is in one of your cities, hurrying production in that city won’t cause any moral penalties, cost only 50% more gold, but 150% population)
    * whip it good (aoe 3 hex around this unit, affects only friendly units, 50% chance to dispel moral debuffs, affected units gain +8 movement and +1 damage (any existing channel, melee and ranged!) for this turn, 1 turn cooldown)
    * strangle (touch ability, physical damage, chance to paralyze target for 2 turns (incorporeal are immune), no cooldown)
    * mind control immunity
    * possible medal upgrades: bringer of good will 😀 (different name needed here, will cause volunteer’s in the same stack to cost additional 25% less upkeep), fast healing, volunteer, 20% physical protection

    Dwarfs: Giant Mole (Cavalry)
    * 28 or maybe 32 mp
    * tunneling, night vision, cave crawling
    * undermine (creates a tunnel from the current position to another unoccupied hex (range should be comparable to phase), consumes all movement points, any unit with cave crawling may traverse through the tunnel for a cost of 16mp (other unit’s can’t use it!))
    * armored, overwhelm, devastating charge, wallcrushing
    * mind control immunity
    * blind (I guess this is only relevant vs shrine of smiting)
    * possible medal upgrades: inflict crippling wounds, defensive strike, defender

    Frostlings: Packleader (Irregular)
    * call the pack (summons a bleak warg unit to a random location on the battlefield, triggers once per turn for 6 turns, can be disjuncted, usable once per battle)
    * feed the pack (long range, marks enemy unit as prey for 3 turns, letting it take 3 more damage from animal and monster units and attempts to panic it, cannot target undead, machine or incorporeal units, 3 turns cooldown)
    * polearm, throw harpoon (with some additional damage)
    * mind control immunity
    * on expert or elite: aspect of the wolf (until end of combat this unit is transformed into a doom wolf, damage, buffs and debuffs persist unless they are specific to irregular or frostling units, consumes all movement and action points)
    * other possible medal upgrades: armor piercing, inflict frostbitten, inflict freezing cold, first strike

    Doom Wolf (Monster)
    * frost breath
    * high mp (40?)
    * moderate melee frost damage, infict freezing cold, inflict frostbitten
    * fearsome
    * mind control immunity
    * inflict bleeding wounds

    Orcs: War Caller (Support) (I admit, I’m not really happy with this one)
    * war chant (orc units in the same stack as this unit receive +200 moral and +1 physcial damage)
    * mark of the war caller (extreme range, used on a friendly unit bestows that unit with +2 defense, +1 resistance and makes it immune to moral debuffs for 2 turns, used on an enemy unit it attempts to panic that unit (shaken if resisted), 2 turns cooldown)
    * herald (while this unit is in a city, the production cost for units in that city is reduced by 10%)
    * black bolts, if death damage channel returns, else naga fire bane fire
    * inflict spirit breaking, inflict despair
    * mind control immunity
    * possible medal upgrades: bestow iron heart, inflict dazed

    Tigrans: False God (Support) (a mummified tigran monarch)
    * floating
    * Undead (ghouled)
    * melee attack is mix of phyical, spirit, fire and blight damage
    * energy drain
    * life stealing
    * drain life-essence (touch, deals up to 15 damage to target friend or foe and heals the False God for the amount of damage dealt, damage cannot be reduced, but will be 0 if the target has 100% spirit immunity, 1 turn cooldown; on strategic map the skill will automatically be used on a random unit of the same stack with the most remaining life, unless the False God has full health)
    * for the pharaoh (adjacent tigran units and tigran units in the same stack gain +100 morale, +1 resistance and +1 spirit and fire melee damage)
    * chosen of the pharaoh (touch, can only target a friendly non-ghoul tigran unit, if the unit dies, it will be brought back as a ghoul under your control after the battle if you won it, usable once per battle)
    * possible upgrades: inflict spirit breaking, inflict dazed, inflict immolation

    Now how to unlock the racial T4s:

    * idea 1: whenever you build a unit of a specific race, you gain a loyalty badge for that particular race. once you reach a certain amount of loyalty badges (this would be suspect to testing, between 30-40 seems plausible to me) you can spend them to unlock a new racial building for cities of that specific race (requires warhall and temple) that allows you to recruit the racial T4 unit. all racial T4 units will cost 5 racial loyalty badges in addition to their ordinary costs

    * idea 2: instead of aqquiring the loyalty badges through unit production, each happy city you own will automatically grant you one loyalty counter of it’s particular race per turn

    * idea 3: the T4 buildings are unlocked when your leader reaches level 12 (if your leader is Goblin, you unlock Goblin T4 building etc.). they can only be build in your throne city. this also means you can only get racial T4s of your starting race

    If one was to implement the loyalty badges idea they could also be used for some other fun things like to buy mythical artifacts of the respective race. This could be done in a city with an item forge.

    Personally, I’d rather have another T3 per race with an accompanying system making the two T3′s mutually exclusive per city. So for example as Humans, you could either build the Hall of Chivalry to get Knights or instead go for the “Mystical Hut”, allowing the production of the good ol’ Witch.

    There was a suggestion some time ago (don’t remember who brought it up first) to include racial T3’s depending on alignment. One way to do this could be to base all 3 possible T3’s on the currently existing ones. So e.g. for humans Hall of Chivalry would unlock

    * Knights, if alignment is neutral (so neutral always gets currently existing T3)
    * Black Knight, if alignment is evil
    * Paladin, if alignment is good

    though I think it’s harder to get equally convenient results for the other races, so they would probably need entirely new units which would result in 16 new T3’s which could very likely have too many similarities given we already have a lot more existing T3’s than T4’s (2 per class + 1 per race vs 1 per class, not counting dwellings etc).

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