Tournament reports

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Tournament reports

This topic contains 426 replies, has 42 voices, and was last updated by  malisa23 3 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 361 through 390 (of 427 total)
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  • #227993

    AbednegoJC
    Member

    @Azzazir
    If you want to disband killed units (besides fact some of yours were terribly wounded, on fb had like 1/2hp), than I think I can agree. But in this case I will have still full mana to cast spontaneous mutation and possibly other spells (cant say if it will be swap locations again or not) – thats imho fair option, considered that I swapped two of your best firstborns and got almost best possible elements for my units.

    #227995

    Question? How can you watch the stream on Steam?

    #227998

    @ Azz, it is impossible to decide the winner of the fight.

    It is impossible to decide the casualties involved.

    Therefore it is impossible to continue the game.

    If a game cannot be continued then the options are not good.

    Do I randomly decide who wins the fight? Do I randomly decide who wins the match?

    Do we go for a majority vote by the 3 Judges (which you’d lose)?

    The fairest and simplest solution when a match can’t be resolved is to start a new one, not hard to understand surely?

    Furthermore you stand accused of deliberately disconnecting. This OFCOURSE can’t be proved (and I think noone at this level would want to do so. And the top prize is €100 people, worth cheating over? And if you are playing for respect then what’s the problem restarting a match) but to avoid such accusations, as much as possible, it is better to restart and have people watch the entire thing.

    @ Gab we can’t replay the fight because the huge luck Abed had is unlikely to repeat itself.

    We can’t replicate things up to the point of the disconnection.

    Furthermore, we’re not even sure what the exact moves were.

    There is just too much ambiguity over this fight.

    #227999

    Question? How can you watch the stream on Steam?

    You need to be a friend with one of these guys on Steam. When they’re playing, right click their name and choose “watch” or something like that.

    #228010

    gabthegab
    Member

    BBB yes may be in this case game must be restart.
    But like you search a solution for disconnection problem in a fight, the solution i offer is the best in most cases by disconnection, like this we remain as close as possible to the game in which there was the problem.

    #228014

    @ Gab, sorry I thought you meant your solution for the fight at hand.

    For future fights I think everyone should stream or record their fights.

    Hard on bandwidth.

    For future Finals maybe it should be a requirement.

    Actually, I’m sure I said something similar earlier, so will read the other thread to find out.

    Would save alot of hassle if we can watch the entire match.

    #228029

    Azazir
    Member

    @Azzazir
    If you want to disband killed units (besides fact some of yours were terribly wounded, on fb had like 1/2hp), than I think I can agree. But in this case I will have still full mana to cast spontaneous mutation and possibly other spells (cant say if it will be swap locations again or not) – thats imho fair option, considered that I swapped two of your best firstborns and got almost best possible elements for my units.

    @BBB
    If Abed is agree either, so whats the problem here?

    #228058

    @ Azz, in theory no problem, as you two are agreeing. If you could agree like this then no need to get me here in the first place.

    I’m only here to resolve things when players cannot agree, not to micro manage every little thing.

    If you and Abed are happy to carry on the match, with units dead*, then go ahead.

    So, you 2 want to continue the fight again, with Azz leader dead?

    What, exactly, are you proposing?

    That you restart the fight?

    I don’t know why Abed would agree to that as he almost certainly won’t get the same luck.

    * I can’t honestly work out which units would be dead after such a fight, and neither can anyone really I think.

    Anyway, if Abed agrees, then you carry on.

    If he doesn’t, then you restart the match, Saturday night.

    In either case, independent observers will be watching the match.

    #228059

    ExNihil
    Member

    You can’t disband a leader unit.

    #228062

    @ Ex, yeah, just one of those details that make it all a headache to accurately recreate.

    #228070

    AbednegoJC
    Member

    Im for recreate or refight – dont care too much. some information were told to azzazir, so he can better prepare… but any solution gonna be against me I think, so I just want to do it quick 🙂

    #228072

    Fenraellis
    Member

    You can’t disband a leader unit.

    To expand on Ex’s statement, the only way to delete a Leader unit, is to find a convenient Treasure Site to solo suicide them onto(if necessary by unequipping artifacts). To match the actual situation, that would mean doing so on the same turn as this battle, which isn’t an option under the given circumstances.

    #228104

    gabthegab
    Member

    I am sorry to reppeat, but for replay a fight the best solution is the solution I have given, like this you can take the same place use the same spell, so using the same number of mana, you can restart until you have the result wished.
    No problem for kill the lead of Azz, if Azz help for that in the fight…
    The only problem is the two players must be right, when I haved a crash in the fight with Azz in the tournament, he didn’t want play the same thing, if he did the same I am sure I would have winning the game, however it was very easy to do the same thing then when the crash arrived, I always have a screen shoot of the srash, so Azz won a game he must have loosed 🙂

    #228105

    Fluks
    Member

    I don’t see the problem. If they agree on disbanding the dead(ly wounded) units they just start the fight again, the first 4 turns or so are used to kill Azzazirs leader (who apparently can’t be disbanded), spellcasting only allowed if both agree on it during that. When Azzazirs leader is dead they start the fight with their remaining units. Or Azzazirs leader attacks abed stack alone before the “big fight” and yields the fight, then Abed wouldn’t get the xp, but azz will have a lower morale in the big fight.

    #228109

    fakir_Faler
    Member

    Azazir can kill his leader by attacking solo on the army Abed. In principle, it is possible and in the battle to destroy the leader on manual management.

    #228112

    Well the problem from my point of view is that whatever units are disbanded, playing the fight again will probably mean Azz wins, whereas in the original fight, Azz was, based on the balance of probability (from the statements and screenshots and autosave,) going to lose.

    And then there was a disconnect, and Azz is pushing hard for a refight, which will almost certainly = easy win, as lightning rarely strikes twice.

    it is possible and in the battle to destroy the leader on manual management.

    which is not “repeating the same moves,” as per rule 4.

    Rule 4 is, to all intents and purposes, almost impossible to administer here. That is why I called for a complete restart.

    Abed, and myself, are getting pretty tired of all this arguing but, @ Azz, do not think that just arguing your case non stop will be enough to get what you want.

    It might be enough to get Abed to just give up, because

    so I just want to do it quick

    .

    Personally, I think people need to take a steop back and look at it from a bigger perspective.

    The point of this tournament was to provide good play. The point of the Finals especially was to provide good play.

    Disconnecting in the middle of a fight and then arguing to replay the fight knowing you will almost certainly win any replay is not, in my book, good play.

    I don’t see the problem. If they agree on disbanding the dead(ly wounded) units they just start the fight again, the first 4 turns or so are used to kill Azzazirs leader (who apparently can’t be disbanded), spellcasting only allowed if both agree on it during that. When Azzazirs leader is dead they start the fight with their remaining units. Or Azzazirs leader attacks abed stack alone before the “big fight” and yields the fight, then Abed wouldn’t get the xp, but azz will have a lower morale in the big fight.

    Full of problems imho. It basically boils down then to whichever player convinces the other guy that unit x should be disbanded.

    Making the first 4 turns different so Azz’ leader can be disbanded is not implementing Rule 4.

    At this point we might as well throw a coin for each unit.

    The cleanest thing to do is restart the match.

    @ Azz if you are so good and so confident you won’t have problems beating Abed again. In your own words, the match was “won” 10 turns before the fight happened, i.e. turn 30.

    I’m not here tonight as, unfortunately, I have an actual life outside of this tournament.

    So, if Griffith and Ex are available to watch either stream, that is fine. If not, then game will start Sunday.

    #228120

    Azazir
    Member

    @BBB
    i ve wasted 9 hours of my life for last match, and wasted shitload of time for discussing. So ofc i dont like this your brilliant idea of absolutely unmotivated and unfounded remake of the whole game.

    Once again if Exhinil or you or anyone else thinks i am not clear winner here, so lets continue fight and see who was right.

    You said abed was lucky to kill my leader? – ye, agree.
    You said, if we repeat the moves of battle abed got almost zero chance to kill my leader again? – ye agree.
    Still…my game was crushed in the middle of the fight i just cant loose and in the middle of the match i just cant loose. So i have nothing against let this abeds luck happens, so i AGREE to disband my leader, because as i ve said so many times this match is free win for me in any possible way, and i worked hard this match and i ve earned this victory of mine!

    Ofc i am getting pretty pissed off when you groundlessly blame me for my game crushed…while i got freaking zero reason to dc by good will…you should be much more cautious with such kind of charges!!

    So we will refight this battle, abed disband fb and fq and wont use his mana wasted on 2 swaplocations (cuz he casted it only to kill me leader) still he ofc can use his mutations. So i will kill my leader, i dont care much how, cuz even if i just give free XP to Abed – this changes nothing, none of his units will face the next day sunrise.

    #228135

    ExNihil
    Member

    I’m afraid I won’t have time to watch streaming this weekend, and from what I understand neither would Abed to play (maybe I understood wrong though).

    I could watch it on Sunday evening if it is scheduled in advanced and in fact I’m sure a few people here would like to watch like Ninjew et al.

    @azazir I was not intending to offend you by accusing you of cheating, this is of course a very serious accusation but what can you do? This is the internet and you can never know when someone is doing something intentionally or unintentionally. In sports people do blood tests and psychological tests etc. It could be that your windows (assuming its the OS you are using) is suddenly acting up – my windows does stuff from time to time and we are all familiar with it. But there did seem to emerge a pattern over the tournament (see what Abed wrote about that Mountainous map for example) and this DC was highly suspicious. Jolly Joker’s post was right on the spot in this regard. If you are cheating you are doing it in a way that cannot be clearly pinpointed, or leaves a room for argument. And if you are not cheating then of course you deserve an apology – but then we CANNOT, really, know that. You do see that, I guess, yes?

    Anyhow I do not envy the position you are in at the moment. I agree with BBB, and I think the best and cleanest thing would be a new game. It will be a clean table so to speak – if you did cheat, it will allow you to play and win or lose without cheating this time, if you did not cheat then this really doesn’t matter, but apologies for wasting your time in this grandiose fashion.

    As for the time I wasted on this – I wasted it happily, if I contributed something to the resolution of this thing to the better – in the end. Lets hope so. If not it will be a waste indeed.

    #228176

    fakir_Faler
    Member

    You can find out by experiments as a leader can die.
    Through auto combat: 1 leader against 18 units Abed.
    or manual combat: 1 leader against 18 units Abed.
    Do you have save game.
    I suggest You to try different options.
    This is a technical question, but not an insurmountable problem

    #228247

    As Ex said, there is a pattern that is enough to cast suspicion. As this is the Finals we have to do everything in our power to mitigate suspicion.

    Ofc i am getting pretty pissed off when you groundlessly blame me for my game crushed…while i got freaking zero reason to dc by good will…you should be much more cautious with such kind of charges!!

    Welcome to my world. I am getting “pretty pissed off” with having to administer all of this. You are all adults and this is a small community, fighting in a small tournament, more for bragging rights than for any real money.

    As for “good reason” well we could argue this all day – if you are losing the fight and then there is a disconnection, at best it is just an accident, at worst it is deliberate. How can I tell? Remember this is the FINALS.

    Ideally I shouldn’t have to be asking people to watch your matches live, ideally there shouldn’t be any accusation, or even suspicions of cheating.

    But this is the real world, and I have to ask people to watch the matches live, and simply put, this is the LEAST BAD option.

    Read that again please until it sinks in. Ex says it better:

    It will be a clean table so to speak – if you did cheat, it will allow you to play and win or lose without cheating this time, if you did not cheat then this really doesn’t matter, but apologies for wasting your time in this grandiose fashion.

    #228426

    So, to reiterate:

    1 – if both of you can somehow agree which units are disbanded, then you can continue the fight. This is because I honestly don’t see how to fairly decide who loses what.

    2 – If you cannot agree, then the match is restarted.

    I’ll give you to midnight CET to discuss.

    If you go for option one, then post here:

    a)which units are destroyed
    b)when you will resume play

    If you go for option 2, then post here:

    which times you are available.

    #228437

    Azazir
    Member

    @BBB
    Saw no Abed online this weekend, still i am here and open to discuss.
    Dead units are: my leader, Abeds FN+FQ. (Abed lost one of his dfarf axeman either, still i am ok to let him live as a good-will-sign)

    I hope Abed got oppurtunity to finish this fight today at least, still i am waiting him all day long.

    #228451

    gabthegab
    Member

    Azz what you nobleman proposes is far from fair. Abed is not available, but if you want to redo the fight in our game like when the crash came, I still have the screenshot and saving 🙂 I am available, we can make that just for fun because i am dispel of the tournament 🙂

    #228496

    Bouh
    Member

    Wow, this was a sad show of the “great” AoW competitive players community…

    But the worst is all these talks about judge decision. I mean, since when can anyone discuss a judge solution ? Usualy such a decision is finale and you can’t discuss it or comment it without suffering big consequences. But here this is even worse than football (or maybe it’s call soccer) !

    #228545

    AbednegoJC
    Member

    @BBB
    Saw no Abed online this weekend, still i am here and open to discuss.
    Dead units are: my leader, Abeds FN+FQ. (Abed lost one of his dfarf axeman either, still i am ok to let him live as a good-will-sign)

    I hope Abed got oppurtunity to finish this fight today at least, still i am waiting him all day long.

    Im ok with that (in case I will have still cp on my leader – and I cant promise I will cast swap location again cause I will have basically nothing to swap. So I can cast other spells).

    I can continue today or tomorrow (not sure about today yet)

    #228565

    So I am going to take that as an agreement then.

    Azz leader dies.

    Abed FB and FQ die.

    #228760

    ExNihil
    Member

    So it’s finally settled. Azazir won.

    #228808

    Wait…

    who watched the match?

    I didn’t know the match was going to be played tonight.

    seriously…the one thing to take away from this entire debacle is that matches are supposed to be observed.

    That is why I wrote this:

    If you go for option 2, then post here:

    which times you are available.

    next match, I need to be online and present.

    #228835

    ExNihil
    Member

    I watched, also didn’t know but sorta assumed Abed was going for it from what he posted here, which was sorta suicidal with all the info divulged. Shrug.

    #228928

    @ Azz, post here times available.

    Abed has said Friday 1600 CET.

    I won’t be available until 1930-2000.

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