Truesight

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This topic contains 6 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Hatmage 6 years, 8 months ago.

Viewing 7 posts - 1 through 7 (of 7 total)
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  • #226417

    Shaithias
    Member

    Problem: Invisibility is countered by true-sight. Truesight is everywhere and is too easy to get.

    Solution 1: Make truesight special again.
    1. racial supports now get truesight at gold only
    2. heroes true sight now costs 10 points, and gives an additional +1 vision.
    3. No t4 truesight, and the only t3 that gets truesight should be watchers.
    4. Truesight is 5 point helmet only trait at the forge, or none at all.

    Solution 2: Nerf and differentiate truesight
    1. New skills: Cave Tracking, Forest Tracking, Urban Tracking, Swamp Tracking, arctic tracking and truesight. The various tracking skills Take over cave, forest, urban swamp, and arctic concealment. Truesight now only covers water concealment and invisibility. The Tracker skills are split out among the classes and races.
    2. Keen eye takes over all concealment, and truesight only works on invisibility.

    Solution 3: Buff and create truesight counters
    1. Master Illusionist now counters truesight vs the entire party, but only confers invisibility to the sorcerer.
    2. Gathering Darkness Rogue ability that dramatically decreases the vision range of enemies that are within the vision range of the rogue.
    3. Spirit Summons Invisible (but scary looking) units that can be summoned and are only visible with true sight. This is a necromancer only trait, and summons scary looking stacks of wailers, banshees and other sundry creatures, but the trick here is that they aren’t real, and your truesight is getting to your brain. The spirit summons cost minimum mana to summon, and die if you lose sight of all hexes surrounding them. They have no vision in and of themselves.

    #226441

    Lykus
    Member

    Sounds like it would make rogue incredibly OP since true sight also detect concealed units.

    Would make more sense that true sight units only detect invisible units at half of their vision range.

    #226446

    Garresh
    Member

    Uh, no. The only thing true sight related that was ever OP was when it was readily available on sorc scouts and summons at base, and when sorcs can get true sight and flying and floating and stuff. True sight is fine as is, and while it is common this is more than offset by the the amount of concealment-friendly terrain. Tbh, I actually consider true sight less of a problem than a good well-maintained line of towers which will cover breaks in cover with their vision. Nerfing truesight I ridiculous.

    #226477

    Fluks
    Member

    I think Shaithias has a point, but his propositions are too radical. Imho true sight must stay on all racial supports simply to ensure that there always is a stealth detection unit available. But maybe it could be removed from bards, apprentices and reanimators. Possibly even succubus, shaman and evangelist don’t really need to have it. I like the idea of the haunting spirits, or “spirit summons”, I always wanted to haunt the stupid priests 🙂 But I think its probably hell to code proper reactions to that into the AI and since modding support is announced I really doubt big changes like this will happen.

    #226499

    NINJEW
    Member

    p much what garresh said. the abundance of truesight might make it sound like there’s an issue but actually truesight is always on really slow supports with 3 hex vision range, while concealed units are always way faster than that anyway. so sneaking around and using concealment to your advantage is still always possible, because if you disappear into the woods or mountains then the truesight units aren’t mobile enough to follow you, while more mobile units (like fliers) won’t have truesight. the exceptions are what, AD and Rogue? yeah makes sense that they have a tool for quickly spotting concealed units, concealment is kind of their game.

    #226501

    Fenraellis
    Member

    Problem: Invisibility is countered by true-sight. Truesight is everywhere and is too easy to get.

    Solution 1: Make truesight special again.
    1. racial supports now get truesight at gold only
    2. heroes true sight now costs 10 points, and gives an additional +1 vision.
    3. No t4 truesight, and the only t3 that gets truesight should be watchers.
    4. Truesight is 5 point helmet only trait at the forge, or none at all.

    (…)

    1. Master Illusionist now counters truesight vs the entire party, but only confers invisibility to the sorcerer.

    No offense, but this altogether sounds like someone who plays Sorcerer.
    — The specific complaint about Invisibility being countered.
    — The request to make True Sight only innately available unranked for Watchers for.
    — The request to make True Sight much more troublesome for Heroes to obtain… except for the Sorcerer which can simply summon a Gold Wyvern Mount.

    —–
    On the other hand:

    3. Spirit Summons Invisible (but scary looking) units that can be summoned and are only visible with true sight. This is a necromancer only trait, and summons scary looking stacks of wailers, banshees and other sundry creatures, but the trick here is that they aren’t real, and your truesight is getting to your brain. The spirit summons cost minimum mana to summon, and die if you lose sight of all hexes surrounding them. They have no vision in and of themselves.

    The idea of an “Illusionary Army” spell is actually pretty neat.

    #226736

    Hatmage
    Member

    Previous discussion on this topic did two things – remove true sight from phantasms, which was necessary, and raise the idea of true sight on the first medal for racial supports – not free, but still available on demand via laboratory.

    I don’t think true sight on heroes should be more expensive – for theocrats, sorcerers and necromancers it’s too expensive, if anything, because they can have supports with it so easily and benefit so much from them, plus sorcerers get it on gold wyverns. There’s no real incentive to take true sight on most leaders that can have it, especially where it would make thematic sense, though the dreadnought is a possible exception.

    Idea of an illusory army spell is neat, and might be a nice thing to add to nightwish if possible (all structures under spell have an illusory garrison of shadow stalkers, perhaps?)

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