"Undefended" Cities Balancing Suggestions

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Balance Suggestions "Undefended" Cities Balancing Suggestions

This topic contains 11 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  BLOODYBATTLEBRAIN 6 years, 8 months ago.

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    Introductory paragraph, feel free to TL’DR and skip this one, it’s not important

    So, I know I’m not the only one that thinks it’s silly that a group of 5 poorly armed bandits can waltz in and steal a thriving metropolis with thousands of people living in it simply because it had no garrisoned soldiers. The town I live in IRL has no police station, nor a military base, it’s effectively “undefended” but if five dudes with handguns showed up and demanded the mayor hand over ownership of the town to him, every redneck within 20 miles would jump at the chance to shoot the ever-living crap out of them. Here’s a suggestion of mine that I think would balance this, adding a bit more strategy to the game. I won’t include any exact math or numbers, I’ll leave the exact formula and math to the experts, but here’s my ideas in their basic form.

    Actual suggestions here:

    First, I think every city should have a “fortification” or some such named stat. Things such as population, city happiness, whether or not it has walls, etc should increase this amount. This is basically the base populations willingness and ability to defend their homes from attack if an army isn’t garrisoned there. A stack has to have an “assault” or some such named stat greater then or equal to the cities fortification stat in order to launch an attack. And things such as tier, maybe racial or unit specific things can increase this amount. This is not to prevent actual attacks, but from silly things like constant streams of stacks of just one or two tier 1 or 2 troops constantly throwing themselves at a city, whether or not it has defenders. A single tier 4 troops should be able to surpass even the highest possible fortification stat, because a single tier 4 is a valid threat all on it’s own. Now, I’m sure there are quite a few rogue players out there going “Bad idea, hell no.” My suggestion to even it up for rogue players is that if they have a stack of a single unit, and that unit has urban concealment, but is not able to beat a cities fortification stat, they can enter the city to commit acts of sabotage, afterall, a small group of poorly armed and cunning strangers should be able to talk their way past some guards and enter the city’s population without hassle. From inside, they give the owning player vision radius of that area around the city, and give the city a penalty to production, happiness, and fortification due to acts of sabotage. This effect should increase over time the longer the owning player doesn’t tend to it. It could even cause a revolt (betrayal event) due to inciting and subterfuge if left unattended for too long.

    My second suggestion is to add a building, something named along the lines of “Militia Guardpost” or whatever, that is available to every race to build in a town that has a few of their combat unit producing buildings build. This building slightly increases a city’s fortification stat, but also serves a more important purpose. If attacked, and if the city is unguarded, it will roll a random amount and strength of that city’s races irregular units to defend it, based on city population and happiness. They wouldn’t be an imposing force on their own, but a tactical player that still has some casting points might be able to stall a lighter invasion with this. If the defenders somehow win this battle, then the remaining irregular’s remain as a stack on top of the city, and the Militia Guardpost gets a 3 turn cooldown (to prevent the player from just moving the stack off the city in order to get a new one if there is another attack incoming.)

    Thankyou for taking the time to read this, and let me know what you think. I’d like this idea to get implemented, or at least something close to it, because nothing infuriates me more then having a single stack of tier 1 independent or rogue player’s scoundrels take one of my metropolis’ just because I didn’t leave a unit on it. Realistically, I just don’t see this happening, and the whole city sniping with a single stealthed unit is just ridiculous. I’d like to see something smoother like a good aligned rogue using a stack of scoundrel’s hiding within an enemy city and slowly turning their population against it’s current owner for a betrayal event or something. It’s more interesting by far.


    Jolly Joker

    Division of military assets between attack and defense is a basic element of decision. Leaving towns unguarded is simply unwise. It doesn’t matter the attackers ae 5 Scoundrels or 5 Infantries, you must guard cities with personnel, you have to clear the vicinity of roguish elements, and have to be on guard against concealed attacks.

    Keep also in mind that the way how towns work you have to see the whole town radius (when using “realistic”). Even if you would have something like a garrison, that works only within the inner city wall. Rogues around town would effectively make normal trade, working and production impossible. While your town couldn’t be taken immediately, it would cease to produce anything and people would starve.

    So the game simply demands that you deal with homeguarding yourself, and as much as I’m concerned it’s a rather crucial element, otherwise things would become extremely straightforward.


    You could mod this in as a racial defence building, or attach those properties to the barracks etcetc (I *thibk*), so that in combat whatever units you created for this effect would get summoned.

    You’d slow the game down massively so too much a change to make it into the base game IMHO.

    Edit: you’d still need at least onendefending unit IMHO.



    just leave a couple of irregulars in your town like everyone else



    I like this suggestion. Because I do agree with him. Its beyond ridiculous that a 50k people surrenders to a first crow that shows up and demands tribute. That was fine in 2000 with crappy pc specs, it can’t fly today with me.

    One of my recommendations to this post is that militia building should have GPT attached to it to represent paying the upkeep for the garrison plus the Gold price of the irregulars being recruited. So that militia building for humans means 12 gpt + 240 gold in total.

    By making it cost 12 gpt + 240 gold in total, it preserves the strategic decisions that won’t be present in OP’s post. But it does have the advantage of basically producing five extra irregulars in a single city saving you five extra turns. But I believe the 240 gold + 12 gpt or 24 gpt if any other race will still force the player to decide if they want the garrison there or not. And they cannot leave the city, they are tied to that city they are built in for all their life.


    AFAIK you can’t attach upkeep to buildings…


    Jolly Joker

    Don’t see it as surrender. See it as flipping the idiot the finger who couldn’t be bothered to spare even a single military unit for protection and left a prospering Metropolis virtually undefended and helpless in the face of the lightest threat.


    ust leave a couple of irregulars in your town like everyone else

    yeah. vassals represent enough of the independent townsfolk thing.



    Bit of a tangent, but troop-to-poulation ratios are one of many things that would be more accurate if all population & popgrowth numbers were divided by 5 to 10, which would also allow troops to cost 1 pop per figure and have said cost mean something.


    Or abstract pop cost to represent logistics support and camp followers etc.

    I’m going to make a mod where units cost 100 pop for the lower tiers and more as you go up.

    Pop as a resource. Intriguing.



    If you ask me, it would have made a good mechanic for shadowborn. Right now, their spells are evil because they just are. But a spell that consumes population to grant extra casting points is evil because people are getting killed in droves to facilitate a spell that’s very likely also going to kill (3 to 8) people, at the behest of an unelected monarch who thinks compound words are cool.

    But my issue with scale is that 50-100 people is an established village in medieval european terms, and 5000 is a city, at least after the plague. Metropoli are actually more reasonable – London would qualify even post plague, despite being relatively small, Paris and Rome would qualify easily and Moscow might actually hit the population cap, but I’d personally prefer that each individual population member mean something in gameplay terms, especially as one soldier and for every 100-1000 men is demographically reasonable, as is one law enforcer (civic guard or nightwatch. not unit, figure) for a village of 300.


    I mentioned this in modding forum. We should bounce ideas!

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