Unifier victory needs a boost?

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Home Forums Age of Wonders 3 Discussions Balance Suggestions Unifier victory needs a boost?

This topic contains 10 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Hiliadan 3 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #239588

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Unifier victory is certainly not the most appropriate in duels, especially when there are few cities, which mean few races and thus quite hard to get to Champion with several races. But even outside duels, I have never heard of a game won through the unifier victory in multiplayer (live or PBEM).

    I think the cost is way too great and the fact that everyone knows that you start building a beacon while you have to wait at best 10 turns to get the first step finished is a real pain.

    Shouldn’t the cost of the 1st step be seriously reduced? Let’s imagine a setting with 2 beacons required: everyone will know when you reach Champion in one race, and then when you start building your 1st beacon, and same for the 2nd race. That gives them plenty of time to react.
    I think 5 to 8 turns to build the 1st step is more than enough. So the cost should maybe be reduced to 500 to 800 gold (from 1200 currently).
    I haven’t been able to find what is the cost of the second step but I assume it is 1200 mana? 500 to 800 mana should also be enough.

    I don’t expect many people to react to that as it is not a topic that arise passions, but what do you think?

    #243990

    Hiliadan
    Member

    I don’t expect many people to react to that as it is not a topic that arise passions, but what do you think?

    Seems I was right!

    As we are planning for the next tournament, I’d like to get this issue solved.
    I checked in the Tome of Wonder and the cost of the Unity Tower Fire is 1000 mana.

    So I propose to reduce the costs like this (and add it in the table for Balance discussion: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1flsHncpzAmJa_2xMHZ6Tlp-mf69ej2mYrSGNc4V3_QA/edit?usp=sharing):
    GC08
    Unity Beacon Tower costs 500 gold (was 1200)
    GC09
    Unity Beacon Fire costs 500 mana (was 1000)

    #244000

    Zaskow
    Member

    GC08
    Unity Beacon Tower costs 500 gold (was 1200)
    GC09
    Unity Beacon Fire costs 500 mana (was 1000)

    Too low prices I suppose.

    #244009

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Opponents get notified when you reach Champion of that race, then when you start building the Tower (and you know where), then again when you start the Fire. It gives plenty of time to react. + you need at least two Beacons on Fire to win, so even ore time to react.
    I don’t think the price is too low at 500. In general, it’s at least 4-5 turns to build it.

    #244314

    Leon Feargus
    Member

    I am mostly a single player, but I agree with OP.
    It takes too long to establish the beacons.
    It’s suppose to be a way to eliminate the tedious mop up phase, but usually mopping up is quicker, depending on game settings.

    An ideal solution would be for the price of the buildings to depend on map size/amount of players … but this might be impossible to implement.

    I think small (and medium without ug) maps do well when the amount of beacons is set to 1. (Supersamurai’s Extended Settings mod makes this possible).

    #244346

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Should I consider you in favour of the cost reductions I proposed then?

    An ideal solution would be for the price of the buildings to depend on map size/amount of players … but this might be impossible to implement.

    Yes, that would be the best but I also guess it might be impossible to mod.

    #244360

    500 seems low (they provide you with happiness and cause other players to lose happiness) but hard to say, never really seen them.

    #244388

    Hiliadan
    Member

    GC08, GC09 – too low price, 700-800 would be more reasonable.

    I think we should try at 500. Remember that everyone gets a notification when you start building a Beacon, and it says in which city.
    I never saw anyone try to build a Beacon before. And I don’t think anyone would do it at 700-800.

    #244406

    I never saw anyone try to build a Beacon before. And I don’t think anyone would do it at 700-800.

    I think that is the point TBH. It shouldn’t be a regular victory condition, it should only be resorted to when the enemy is turtling too much despite their disadvantage.

    Why? Because if it is too cheap, the player who’s ahead could just sit in his base and build it, instead of moving his units out to fight city sieges. Plus keep in mind it causes happiness malus to enemies so it’s not a completely useless building.

    I agree it’s too high right now, but 500 is too cheap except for small maps. I think 700-800 is good enough (more viable but still too expensive to be used as a regular victory condition).

    #244430

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Ok, we’ll try 700 then. But you over-estimate how easy it is to defend a city. If you stay in your base, you have all the chances to win because your opponent can just clear all the sites, get very high level units, destroy all your other cities, occupy your sites in your city domain to remove your income… It’s not that easy.

    GC08a
    Unity Beacon Tower costs 700 gold (was 1200)
    GC09a
    Unity Beacon Fire costs 700 mana (was 1000)

    Both are now priority changes!

    #248674

    Hiliadan
    Member

    Ok, we’ll try 700 then. But you over-estimate how easy it is to defend a city. If you stay in your base, you have all the chances to win because your opponent can just clear all the sites, get very high level units, destroy all your other cities, occupy your sites in your city domain to remove your income… It’s not that easy.

    We tried 700 and I still haven’t heard of anyone even attempting to build a Beacon. I suggest to go to 600. Opinions?

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