November 18, 2015 at 15:59 #237411
I was comparing cavalry in the tome of wonders the other day. I thought originally there was a simple template for every type of unit with changes from race and a minor ability difference here or there making for a lot of different units(in this case cavalry). This seems mostly accurate except for some things that stick out. Im going to use Human Cavalry as the base template since they get no modifiers of any kind.
Human Cavalry – Tier 2 – 90gold – 12phys dmg – 55hp – 36mv – 12def – 9res –
Abilities: Charge, Armored, Evolve(into Knight??)
Dwarf Boar Riders – Tier 2 – 90gold – 12phys dmg – 57hp – 32mv – 13def – 10res –
Abilities: Charge, Armored.
Halfling Pony Rider – Tier 2 – 80gold – 11phys dmg – 55hp – 32mv – 11def – 12res –
Abilities: Charge, Armored.
Looking at this comparison I see some disparities. Most obviously, how did Dwarf Boar Riders end up with 57hp?! Dwarves dont get bonus hp. The dwarfs defense and res were raised as they should be, but the cost was not increased and if it was raised from 80 to 90gold, they should look more like the halfling pony riders.
Halfling Pony Riders lose their 1 melee dmg as they should, but they somehow ended up with 1 extra resistance and 1 less defense. Their movement is also a 32 instead of a 36. Goblin Warg Riders have a 36mv to be fair. Goblin Warg Riders also have only 1 less defense than Human Cavalry, same as Halflings at 11def, but Goblin Wargs dont have Armored. Next to Armored it says (inherent) which I assume means its already been added into the units defense. Armored is supposed to add 2def, and yet goblins have the same defense as pony riders. You could justify how horrible pony riders are by the fact they only cost 80gold to produce, but halflings dont have a cost modifier like dwarves. Personally I feel pony riders should at the very least get 36mv since thats the purpose of cavalry, mobility.
One more comparison to show the cost to quality ratio is a bit off.
Elf Unicorn Rider – Tier 2 – 90gold, 10mana – 12phys dmg – 55hp – 36mv – 11def – 11res – Abilities: Charge, Armored, Armor Piercing, Phase.
Orc Black Knight – Tier 2 – 100gold – 13phys dmg – 60hp – 36mv – 12def – 8res –
Abilities: Charge, Polearm, Warcry, Victory Rush, Armored.
Frostling Mammoth Rider – Tier 2 – 110gold – 15phys dmg – 80hp – 32mv – 9def – 9res – Abilities: Charge, Devastating Charge.
Tigran Sabertooth Chariot – Tier 2 – 100gold – 12phys dmg – 4phys, 4fire ranged dmg – 55hp – 36mv – 10def – 8res – Abilities: Charge, Throw Sun Spear, Immolating Projectiles.
Elves and Orcs are paying a bit more for a much higher quality unit in my opinion. Unicorn Riders are a steal since mana isnt usually an issue by the time you can mass a stack of cavalry. Orcs same deal, prolly a little better, but they cost +10 gold which is fine.
The Frostling Mammoth though is 20 extra gold and for that gold your getting 25hp, +3 phys dmg, and -1 defense. I guess this is worth it too, though I dont see why they would lose defense. Also I think Frostlings need Mammoth Riders to be good since its the only meat and heavy dmg they have.
Now lets talk about the utter nonsense that is the Tigran Sabertooth Chariot. Its 100gold like the elf and orc cavalry. Where as the elf and orcs got like 2-3 extra abilities and retained all the defenses that normal cavalry get, the chariot gets Throw Sun Spear which is short range and has a 2 turn cooldown mind you which immolates if you dont resist 9 which is about a 45-50% chance of success vs same tier units. On top of how crappy the ability is in comparison to the elf and orc anyway, Tigrans have the lowest defensive values of any cavalry unit in the game. Even the mammoth rider who loses 1 defense for no reason has better overall defense since Triumph clearly values resistance slightly higher than defense.
Just hoping there is some kind of explanation for quality to cost ratios here. And someone please mod the poor tigran Chariots. Either reduce them to 90 gold or raise their defenses, even making throw sun spear every turn would make them worth the 10 extra gold, but as it stands I cant see why you’d ever get chariots over prowlers.November 18, 2015 at 16:08 #237412
Two things while I’m skimming this
Dwarf Boar Riders are 99 gold
You’re also missing that Sun Spear costs NO action points and has a 1 turn cooldownNovember 18, 2015 at 16:49 #237413
Ahh okay the cost for boar riders was not in tome of wonders. The fact that sun spear costs no action points makes chariots much much better! But I double checked the cooldown in both the tome and the unit stat window, and it definitely says its 2 turn cooldown.November 18, 2015 at 17:15 #237414
Ahh okay the cost for boar riders was not in tome of wonders. The fact that sun spear costs no action points makes chariots much much better! But I double checked the cooldown in both the tome and the unit stat window, and it definitely says its 2 turn cooldown.
Do you want to know why it says so? Cause the first turn is the turn that you use the ability. So you CAN use it every other turn.
Also, 36 MP is the norm, not 32. This is one of the major disadvantages of Dwarves, so I don’t think that the 2 HP isn’t a problem.
Halfling has +2 Resistance for free, just like Halfling Mounted Archers. This is because, while being a pure melee unit, halflings are *very* weak in melee(see your own comment about being armored yet not getting Def for it), so this is their slight compensation. Also against that 32 MP, which hurts.
As for the boar rider cost, it’s not in the ToW because ToW uses base cost without modifiers. Goblin Warg rider also costs 72 instead of 80. (and overwhelm is pretty nice..)
Another point for the Sabretooth’s is that they have Athletics, like all Tigrans. However, on cavalry that ability is much more effective than on some other units, because they have more MP to start with. You can make some really decent flanks with those guys, often even 2 flanks in 1 turn due to their sun spears.
Armored units in general will have 1 total Defense over their peers. A select few have 2, like for example Human Longswordsman and some Dwarves. It’s therefore generally a sort of mixed blessing, having lower Def than their peers vs Armor Piercing units. (though they got a pretty boost when the Enchanted Armory was introduced, whose +2 Def +1 Res is pretty amazing.)November 18, 2015 at 17:32 #237416
Thanks you guys for the timely replies. This clears up my cost to quality ratio concerns for cavalry anyway. Though I still feel Pony Riders need something…
Remember Halfling Sherrifs from SM, they were so badass! Poison mist from smoking a pipe, fire pistol, and Leadership! They were like mini heroes!November 18, 2015 at 18:06 #237420
Remember Halfling Sherrifs from SM, they were so badass! Poison mist from smoking a pipe, fire pistol, and Leadership! They were like mini heroes!
Those were still T3. But they were more awesome, I agree. I’d have preferred them over Eagle Riders I think.November 18, 2015 at 18:10 #237423
I think the cost of boar riders is increased due to dwarf racials in general costing 15% more as a “feature” of the dwarves.November 18, 2015 at 19:51 #237427
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